Are The Lds Temple Rituals Supposed To Be Anything Like The Rituals Of The Old Testament Temple?

[Robert F. Smith]

Baptisms for the dead weren't performed in Temples because Christ didn't introduce that until after he was resurrected

Actually the baptism for the dead reference in I Corinthians 15:29 was considered by the great non-Mormon biblical scholar James Barr to be directly related to II Maccabees 12:44-45, although in that case an atonement for the dead was being made at the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem through prayer and an offering (they took up a collection). Barr, Holy Scripture: Canon, Authority, Criticism (Westminster, 1983), 40-43, n. 19.

The formal rite is one of vicarious expiation of sin, a rite which had been performed in temples for thousands of years before Jesus came on the scene, was the major focus of the Temple in Jerusalem, and all as a type of Jesus, the sacrificial Lamb of God which took away the sin of the world on a permanent basis, in commemoration of which Jesus himself instituted the new version of the ancient Passover Meal ritual of drinking wine and eating bread in remembrance of the blood and body of the sacrificial Lamb which had saved the firstborn of Israel in Egypt, but which would now save all mankind. Even today, Roman Catholics pray to Mother Mary and the Saints to intercede on their behalf.

Of course, the elder of each Jewish family would bring a lamb to the temple on Passover eve, have it sacrificed, roasted, and part of it brought back for the Passover Meal (Seder), which was a dramatic reenactment of the actual Exodus eve in Egypt, both as sacred rite of worship and as a didactic, catechetical moment for all -- especially the children, who needed to learn the meaning of the rite. Psalms were sung, liturgy intoned, every piece of food rife with symbolism. Unless you have done it, you won't understand it.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Robert F. Smith

[Robert F. Smith]

I watched something on temple ceremonies performed in the Old Testament temple. It described alot of interesting facts of what this temple was for. It also talked about things that contradict what our LDS temples are used for. None of the things we do in temples like baptisms for the dead, endowments, weddings, sealings,etc. were done in the ancient temple. Things like sacrificing animals and how there is the holy of holies room that was visited only once a year by the only High Priest to shed blood on the Ark of the covenant that was in a cubicle that was made out of 270 tons of gold. The oxen font that was placed outside in front of the temple was for washing before entering the temple. Outside the temple they were sacrificing animals, so blood was everywhere. Also, those that entered the temple were not worthy, the temple was all about sacrifice for sin. There was only supposed to be one temple and after Jesus rent the veil, he is our temple now.

Someone fed you half-truths and led you astray.

In fact, there were a number of tabernacles, temples, and sanctuaries (holy high places) in the land of Israel, until Hezekiah and Josiah shut most of them down and removed certain sacred items, such as Nehushtan (the brazen serpent of Moses). They were used for a variety of holy purposes. Local priests often functioned in such locations and acted on behalf of the people. This was especially important at the three pilgrimage festivals, Passover, Weeks, and New Year-Day of Atonement-Tabernacles, each celebration having its own characteristics. An entire liturgy existed for such purposes and involved the entire people who acted as a community (the Congregation of Israel), and the Psalms are Israel's song book for these occasions.

]Following the pattern of biblical days, the Lord again in our day has provided these ordinances for the salvation of all who will believe and directs that temples be built in which to perform those sacred rites.

Anciently, to obtain the

saving

blessings of the Lord, it was necessary for an individual to do two things:

(1) Live the righteous life described in the commandments of the Lord, and

(2)

Participate

in the saving ordinances administered by the Lord’s truly authorized servants.

sh—Hebrews 10:19-20.

Is our temple supposed to be like the temple of old, or as some anti mormons say, did Joseph Smith start the temple around the time of his polygamy? To make secret oaths?

Yes, indeed, LDS temples follow many central characteristics of ancient temples throughout the Earth -- including the primary functions of pagan temples in some countries: Japan, India, southeast Asia, etc. A comparison with the ancient rites still practiced at the central Muslim temple at Mecca, the Hajj, should be instructive: White robes over the left shoulder and white slippers are donned after washing, the masses circumambulate the Ka'aba, go out to the Plain of Arafat and raise their arms in supplication and repentance to God to forgive their sins, and on the final day they sacrifice and eat lamb.

Are there any scriptures in the BoM that talk of any ordinances performed in LDS temples?

Yes, but you won't recognize them unless you have actually participated in the modern LDS temple rites. The same applies to OT rites similar to the modern LDS rites. Once one sees them, there is a gasp of recognition from those who know what to look for. I'll give you a couple of hints:

Most modern non-Mormon biblical scholars recognize the creation story in Gen 1 - 3 as "a temple text." Why? Because just such a creation story is primary in a number of ancient Near Eastern temple rites, including Enuma elish, and just such dramatic reenactments of creation events have been featured for thousands of years in temple rites nearly everywhere on this planet. This includes the rites of the mystery religions which Christianity destroyed when it had the power of the state behind it, and such Christian dramatic reenactments or "mystery plays" continued throughout the middle ages on into the Renaissance, and are now celebrated as pageants and passion plays from Oberammergau to Nauvoo.

Non-Mormon scholar (Brandeis) David P. Wright argues that ritual texts within Ugaritic myths and legends are an integral part of the narrative (Wright, Ritual Narrative: The Dynamics of Feasting, Mourning, and Retaliation Rites in the Ugaritic Tale of Aqhat [Winona Lake: Eisenbrauns, 2001]). If you don't know what to look for, you won't see it.

[Robert F. Smith]

If the only interesting things going on in Solomon's Temple were the sacrificial burnings and the once-a-year trip into the Holy of Holies by the High Priest, why did it have 3 stories?

Actually specialists refer to the three separate rooms as "tri-megaron," and it is common to ancient temple architecture in Solomon's time. The three rooms, each of increasing holiness, are termed 'ulam, heikhal, and dbir (Anteroom, Hall, and Oracle [Holy of Holies]). The Hall, which was the largest, featured a lable with loaves of shewbread, altars of incense, the Menorah/candelabrum, etc., and the veil at the Oracle was covered with cherubim like an astrochiton. For the high priest Zacharias this was a place of revelation (Luke 1:5-22).

[mfbukowski]

Great thread and I have a feeling it is about to get even more interesting.

[mfbukowski]

Well since I am anything but a scholar of the Old Testament, let the dummy here (me) post the most obvious reference from Exodus 40

¹² And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.

¹³ And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

¹⁴ And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:

¹⁵ And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.

[volgadon]

Non-Mormon scholar (Brandeis) David P. Wright

You might like to amend that to former Mormon, just for the sake of accuracy. Brilliant scholar though.

[Antoni]

Wow, what a great thread, thanks for all your input folks.

I'll dig out some of the sources mentioned and do more reading.

I don't see why modern temples would need to perform same rituals as ones of old, especially as we live in a different dispensation.

[volgadon]

Wow, what a great thread, thanks for all your input folks.

I'll dig out some of the sources mentioned and do more reading.

I don't see why modern temples would need to perform same rituals as ones of old, especially as we live in a different dispensation.

Good to hear. I just wish the OP would participate more so we could help with her concerns.

[Tacenda]

Good to hear. I just wish the OP would participate more so we could help with her concerns.

I'm still here reading and taking it all in. I tried to PM you about where I saw the program but you don't take any new messages apparently.

I think it's fine if the church just says it's according to revelation that we have different rituals but don't think we can say it's like the rituals in Solomon's temple and compare the two to be the same, per se.

[rameumptom]

The Jews also had a temple in Elephantine Egypt. Along with the temple, ancients also sacrificed on altars to the Lord. Among these were the Rekhabites, whom Jeremiah brought into the temple to show to the temple priests how righteous and holy people were to live.

Ezekiel and John both saw the future Jewish temple. While Jesus is A temple for us, and Paul called each of us the "temple of God", there still are temples.

The reason for temples is to prepare people to return into the Lord's presence as a covenant people. Modern LDS do not sacrifice animals, because sacrifice by blood was done away with Christ. However, we do perform ordinances and make covenants through Christ, to prepare us to meet God.

[volgadon]

I'm still here reading and taking it all in. I tried to PM you about where I saw the program but you don't take any new messages apparently.

I think it's fine if the church just says it's according to revelation that we have different rituals but don't think we can say it's like the rituals in Solomon's temple and compare the two to be the same, per se.

My apologies. For some odd reason, I can't seem to free up space in my inbox even after deleting messages. `

While not everything is going to match 100% I think we can say our temple rituals and their intent are similar to those in Solomon's temple. We can compare the two, several people have done so on this very thread.

[KevinG]

I'm late to this discussion but I think comparing the symbols and outward actions of the ordinances misses the mark of the purpose of Temples. We attend the House of the Lord in order to learn, make covenants and receive blessings. The symbolism involved prior to Christ's sacrifice and atonement was designed to turn hearts towards those future events. Our current temple ordinances turn our hearts towards Christ who has already sacrificed for our sins and requires of us a broken heart and contrite spirit.

Where animal sacrifice was appropriate as a harbinger of Christ's sacrifice in past dispensations now our covenants to sacrifice for and obey Christ are appropriate now.

The principles of the Gospel are what is consistent throughout all dispensations- not so much the symbols themselves. Although it is very cool when they coincide with each other.

[Tacenda]

My apologies. For some odd reason, I can't seem to free up space in my inbox even after deleting messages. `

While not everything is going to match 100% I think we can say our temple rituals and their intent are similar to those in Solomon's temple. We can compare the two, several people have done so on this very thread.

I respectfully disagree that any of our current rituals compare, the only exception might be the washing and annointing. The others like marriage, baptisms, sealings, The Garden, don't appear in Solomon's Temple. Maybe in other ancient temples? But they probably aren't connected to Christianity.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Tacenda

[USU78]

I'm still here reading and taking it all in. I tried to PM you about where I saw the program but you don't take any new messages apparently.

I think it's fine if the church just says it's according to revelation that we have different rituals but don't think we can say it's like the rituals in Solomon's temple and compare the two to be the same, per se.

But they are the same. Here is an example of the kind of thing we're talking about and can safely talk about outside the Temple: The sacrifice of the animal or bread or oil or wine on the altar as burnt offering is in the nature of a shared meal . . . a communion between Priest/Officiator, penitent/worshiper, and G-d. The Blood, Fat and certain other parts of the sacrifice are placed on the altar and burnt. That is G-d's portion of the meal. The bread, oil, wine and meat that are not burnt are, for some sacrifices, eaten, some by the Priest and some by the worshiper. In this sharing of something as intimate as as a family meal, a sharing in a communal dish, man is brought closer to G-d, and G-d is brought closer to man: there is at-one-ment.

Now, in our modern usage, there is likewise a shared meal: There is a communion between Priest/Officiator, penitent/worshiper, and G-d, but in this case G-d does not Himself eat, but, having declared Himself the Bread of Life, He becomes, to some extent [greater if you're RC, symbolically only if you're Mormon] the meal that is ritually shared. The vocabulary through which we worship, through which we become closer to G-d, and He to us, remains the family meal: we all eat from the same loaf, drink from the same cup.

The particulars in this instance are somewhat changed: they certainly look different. But in their function and meaning, they differ slightly.

In both instances, however, He says, "This do in remembrance of Me."

[KevinG]

The particulars in this instance are somewhat changed: they certainly look different. But in their function and meaning, they differ slightly.

In both instances, however, He says, "This do in remembrance of Me."

I was asked to teach the Deacons in our Stake about the sacrament during a Stake Conference. My own research and study into the origins of the ordinance really opened my eyes to the use of bread as a symbol of sacrifice, communion and Christ throughout the ages. There is a definite link and it all points to the Atonement of Christ from the past, the last supper and the present.

This is an illustration of how symbols are designed to impart more eternal and sometimes difficult to comprehend principles to our mortal minds and hearts.

The Temple is not different. If it were meet with God we could use any creation story, any narrative, any symbol and convey the principles of the Gospel with them. The heavens and earth testify of Christ.

Edited September 5, 2012 by KevinG

[Robert F. Smith]

I'm still here reading and taking it all in. I tried to PM you about where I saw the program but you don't take any new messages apparently.

I think it's fine if the church just says it's according to revelation that we have different rituals but don't think we can say it's like the rituals in Solomon's temple and compare the two to be the same, per se.

As I tried to suggest above, the liturgy and observances at both the Tabernacle of Moses and the Temple of Solomon are more complex than you were led to believe and are intertwined with pilgrimage festivals, singing by the levitical choir, etc. There were many sanctuaries, high places, and temples inside and outside the land of Israel (note especially the two Jewish temples in Egypt, at Elephantine and Tell el-Yehudiyah). Most of the same rites were performed in the Israelite temples as in pagan temples and sanctuaries, and for the same reasons.

We have the explicit washing, anointing, clothing, and ordaining ritual described in Exodus and Leviticus, which was cited just above (a simiilar sequence takes place in Ruth 3:3, II Samuel 2:20, etc.). We also have whole books and sections of the Bible which are liturgical (specific order of words, symbols, and acts), and are specific reenactments in dramatic context of the creation mythos, and include the making of covenants. The Song of Songs (Canticles) is a dramatic and poetic reenactment of the Garden of Eden rite, etc. Some of the Gospels (esp Mark) were composed to be read and performed. This was a feature of virtually all ancient temples throughout the world, and still practiced at Hindu temples. As Hugh Nibley used to point out, these are all left over from the primordial rites taught by God in the beginning, and still prized in various forms among men.

We see this especially clearly in the Speech of King Benjamin in the Book of Mormon. The place is at the Temple. The occasion is the pilgrimage festival known as New Year - Day of Atonement - Tabernacles (Rosh Hashana - Yom Kippur - Sukkot, which were anciently one great festival), which are coming up for the Jewish community beginning on Sept 17 this year. Typically for the Temple of Solomon, as for King Benjamin, the focus is the atonement, i.e., vicarious expiation of sin, and the entire people there and then make a formal covenant (Mosiah 5:5-8 ), with repeated interest in the new name of Christ to be written in their hearts.

The Tabernacle of Moses and the Temple of Solomon were built to perform ordinances connected with the law of carnal commandments, i.e., the scapegoat ritual and the blood sacrifices (for vicarious expiation of sin) performed by the priesthood of Aaron were typologically the precursors to Jesus' atoning self-sacrifice which brought that age to a close. Just as we no longer sacrifice a lamb for the Passover meal (seder), and substitute water & bread as emblematic of the blood & body of the Lamb of God in our Sacrament of the Lord's Supper (the Aaronic priesthood performs the blessing), so in all other rites we include all the ancient formulae and give them their full meaning & form, both in and out of LDS temples, although they are now part of the esoteric higher law, administered by the Melchizedek priesthood. Unless you actually participate in them, you will not understand how that can be true..

Edited September 5, 2012 by Robert F. Smith

[Robert F. Smith]

You might like to amend that to former Mormon, just for the sake of accuracy. Brilliant scholar though.

I know David, and most recently saw him at a session attended by him and dedicated to a book of his, at the Society of Biblical Literature annual meeting last Fall in San Francisco.

[Cobalt-70]

From a Zadokite fragment not attested in the DSS, as reconsctructed by Wacholder, "The New Damascus Document," p. 6-7. I am not saying that this exactly conforms to LDS practice, nor that we know precisely the purpose, but the ritual of circling the altar was considered an important part of temple practice. Other Jewish sources support this idea, perhaps even shedding additional light on its significance. The Mishnah (t. Sukkah 4:5) relates how, “Each day they [the priests] made one circuit around the altar and they would say: "Please O Lord, save; Please O Lord, save us!" (Ps. 118:25). R. Yehudah states: "[they would say] Ani wa-Ho, save us! Ani wa-Ho, save us!” Urbach surmised that this is a mumbled version of ana (please) and the Tetragammaton.[1] It was mumbled so that the unrighteous would not hear it because of the power inherent in that name. Zadokites and rabbinic sages were not exactly the best of friends, so any shared traditions can be given some weight. Once we start listening to the texts, they have a lot to tell us.

[1]E. E. Urbach, The Sages, p. 127-28.

Mormons don't circle around the altar in the temple. And they don't chant "Please O Lord, save." You can't say that what is described here is a modern Mormon prayer circle, or even a prayer circle at all. The priests circled the altar individually.

[Cobalt-70]

Tvedtnes states: "Just as an example, let me note that I have, to date, found fifteen early Christian documents that speak of baptism for the dead, along with several Mandaean and Jewish texts. This information will be included in my article 'Baptism for the Dead in Early Christianity," scheduled for publication later this year in another FARMS temple volume."

Your positive statement that none of "the things we do in temples like baptism for the dead... were done in the ancient temple" is misleading.

Early Christian baptisms for the dead were not done in the Temple. The Christians did not even control Herod's temple, so they couldn't have used it for Christian rituals.

[USU78]

Early Christian baptisms for the dead were not done in the Temple. The Christians did not even control Herod's temple, so they couldn't have used it for Christian rituals.

Per Eisenman, I think you overstate: there is pretty good evidence that James, the author of the eponymous letter, was acting at some point as High Priest in the Herodian Temple in Jerusalem.

[mfbukowski]

Mormons don't circle around the altar in the temple. And they don't chant "Please O Lord, save." You can't say that what is described here is a modern Mormon prayer circle, or even a prayer circle at all. The priests circled the altar individually.

Oh gosh. What do you want?

Did you expect them to drive to the temple and park in a parking structure too? And have green jello for lunch afterwards?

[Robert F. Smith]

I respectfully disagree that any of our current rituals compare, the only exception might be the washing and annointing. The others like marriage, baptisms, sealings, The Garden, don't appear in Solomon's Temple. Maybe in other ancient temples? But they probably aren't connected to Christianity.

You might want to view some of the videos on Creation Myths and Temples Bill Hamblin has available at http://mormonscriptu...hs-and-temples/ . They are really power point lectures which he put together for a class he teaches at BYU.

You mention marriages for time and all eternity, sealings, and baptism for the dead as not part of the rites at the Temple of Solomon. As I have pointed out, the practice of vicarious expiation of sin in II Maccabees 12 was connected not by Mormons but by one of the greatest of non-Momron scholars with the baptism for the dead in I Cor 15:29. If you don't understand why that is the same, then it may be that you are unable to understand the purpose of the animal and vegetable sacrifices and burning of incense and singing and liturgy in the ancient Aaronic temples. Do you have any idea why those animals were being killed and roasted and burned? Do you understand how they are connected directly to Jesus Christ? Do you understand the origin and function of Passover, and how it has been transformed by the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper? The marriages and sealings you mention are a special class of ordinances which were never administered by the Aaronic priesthood. There was no Melchizedek priesthood present at the Temple of Solomon. Why would you expect that those rites would apply to our discussion?

As to the Garden of Eden in cosmic temple context: Non-Mormon scholars like Lawrence Stager* connect the Temple of Solomon directly to the Garden of Eden via reading of texts in Ezekiel and elsewhere having to do with the Mountain of the Lord's House, the river which flows from the temple-garden into the Kidron Valley, to the refreshing of the salty abyss.. For the temple is the mythic-cosmic navel of the world (axis mundi). Numerous books and articles have been written on this entire, broad-ranging subject.

* Lawrence E. Stager, “Jerusalem as Eden,” Biblical Archaeology Review, 26/3 (May-Jun 2000), 36-47,66; adapted from his 1999 Eretz-Israel article. Online at http://cojs.org/cojswiki/Jerusalem_as_Eden,_Lawrence_E._Stager,_BAR_26:03,_May/Jun_2000 ; Stager, “Jerusalem and the Garden of Eden,” Eretz-Israel: The Frank M. Cross Festschrift, 26 (1999), 183*–194* (English), also available on DVD as "Jerusalem and the Garden of Eden" (BAS, item 9HB1).]

Edited September 5, 2012 by Robert F. Smith

[Cobalt-70]

GG, here is the link to the Tvedtnes article. http://www.fairlds.o...emple-practices

Thanks to Tvedtnes for telling us that the Gnostics had initiation rituals, that the Gnostics had handclasps, that the Gnostics had secret "mysteries," that the Gnostics had ritual prayer circles, and that Gnostics and Kabbalists believed that you needed a password to get past the angels guarded the doors of heaven.

Now, Mr. Tvedtnes, please tell us how any of these things has anything to do whatsoever with the Temple in Jerusalem. And tell me why anyone should be surprised that the esoteric Freemasons adopted Gnostic and Kabbalistic elements into their rituals.

[Robert F. Smith]

Mormons don't circle around the altar in the temple. And they don't chant "Please O Lord, save." You can't say that what is described here is a modern Mormon prayer circle, or even a prayer circle at all. The priests circled the altar individually.

You missed the typological point, Cobalt. Go back and reread what volgadon actually cited relating to the divine name (Tetragrammaton) in that context, which was actually very apt. Your comments indicate either that you have never participated in LDS esoteric rites, or that you didn't understand them. Also, you need to be very cautious about making claims about modern LDS temple rites here, lest you be banned.

[Tacenda]

You might want to view some of the videos on Creation Myths and Temples Bill Hamblin has available at http://mormonscriptu...hs-and-temples/ . They are really power point lectures which he put together for a class he teaches at BYU.

You mention marriages for time and all eternity, sealings, and baptism for the dead as not part of the rites at the Temple of Solomon. As I have pointed out, the practiced of vicarious expiation of sin in II Maccabees 12 was connected not by Mormons but by one of the greatest of non-Momron scholars with the baptism for the dead in I Cor 15:29. If you don't understand why that is the same, then it may be that you are unable to understand the purpose of the animal and vegetable sacrifices and burning of incense and singing and liturgy in the ancient Aaronic temples. Do you have any idea why those animals were being killed and roasted and burned? Do you understand how they are connected directly to Jesus Christ? Do you understand the origin and function of Passover, and how it has been transformed by the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper? The marriages and sealings you mention are a special class of ordinances which were never administered by the Aaronic priesthood. There was no Melchizedek priesthood present at the Temple of Solomon. Why would you expect that those rites would apply to our discussion?

As to the Garden of Eden in cosmic temple context: Non-Mormon scholars like Lawrence Stager* connect the Temple of Solomon directly to the Garden of Eden via reading of texts in Ezekiel and elsewhere having to do with the Mountain of the Lord's House, the river which flows from the temple-garden into the Kidron Valley, to the refreshing of the salty abyss.. For the temple is the mythic-cosmic navel of the world (axis mundi). Numerous books and articles have been written on this entire, broad-ranging subject.

* Lawrence E. Stager, “Jerusalem as Eden,” Biblical Archaeology Review, 26/3 (May-Jun 2000), 36-47,66; adapted from his 1999 Eretz-Israel article. Online at http://cojs.org/cojswiki/Jerusalem_as_Eden,_Lawrence_E._Stager,_BAR_26:03,_May/Jun_2000 ; Stager, “Jerusalem and the Garden of Eden,” Eretz-Israel: The Frank M. Cross Festschrift, 26 (1999), 183*–194* (English), also available on DVD as "Jerusalem and the Garden of Eden" (BAS, item 9HB1).]

Thanks for pointing out the bolded part. I guess I haven't had the learning and understanding that most on here have had.