By Their Fruits You Shall Know Them

[sjdawg]

Peaches in orange jello.

That's in there somewhere, whether you like it or not.

I once saw peas in lime jello at a ward party. Not good.

[CV75]

In some ways I even find the Fundamentalist mormons to be a sad fruit of Mormonism. Joseph Smitth re-introduced polygamy and other doctrines which splinter groups have maintained.

Consistent with my other posts, "Fundamental Momonism" isn't a fruit of Mormonism, but a fruit of misapplied Mormonism.

[sjdawg]

Consistent with my other posts, "Fundamental Momonism" isn't a fruit of Mormonism, but a fruit of misapplied Mormonism.

Maybe

[tyler90az]

These same things can all be said about Christianity in general (and by the general human population as well), so i'm not sure how they are here applied only to mormonism?

It is a fruit of religion, with variances from religion to religion. If Mormonism is considered a religion would it not then be a fruit of Mormonism also?

Most religions cause sickening thoughts like that but it does not mean they have to.

[Kevin Christensen]

The original context of "by their fruits shall ye know them" comes in relation to the the problem of discerning true and false prophets.

See Matthew 7

¶Beware of ^afalse prophets, which come to you in ^bsheep’s clothing, but ^cinwardly they are ravening ^dwolves.

Ye shall ^aknow them by their ^bfruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

So the issue is not a matter say, going up to a grape vine in the winter and saying, "Nothing growing here," or coming by in season and complaining about a few fallen and rotten grapes, or looking at a squashed fig on a sidewalk and talking about how unappetizing it looks. Nor does the test come down to talking about how beautifully effective a thorn bush might be as a suppliment to a security fence, or a garden maze. The issue is, what plant produces the fruit in question? If you know what you are looking for you can then discern whether you are looking at it when you come across it, and you won't be distracted by other plants, no matter how beautiful or useful they may be for other purposes, or by any broken branches, dead twigs, or dismayed by the presence of any fruit fallen to the wayside, or nibbled on by birds or bugs.

I've considered the problem at length here:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Biblical_Keys_for_Discerning_True_and_False_Prophets

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[bluebell]

It is a fruit of religion, with variances from religion to religion. If Mormonism is considered a religion would it not then be a fruit of Mormonism also?

Most religions cause sickening thoughts like that but it does not mean they have to.

From that perspective, it makes sense.

From the perspective of 'as opposed to Protestantism, what are the good and bad fruits of mormonism', for example, then it doesn't work. I guess i was reading the OP from the second perspective and not the first.

[tyler90az]

From that perspective, it makes sense.

From the perspective of 'as opposed to Protestantism, what are the good and bad fruits of mormonism', for example, then it doesn't work. I guess i was reading the OP from the second perspective and not the first.

That is more then likely what the OP intended. Your perspective that is.

[KevinG]

In some ways I even find the Fundamentalist mormons to be a sad fruit of Mormonism. Joseph Smitth re-introduced polygamy and other doctrines which splinter groups have maintained.

Consistent with my other posts, "Fundamental Momonism" isn't a fruit of Mormonism, but a fruit of misapplied Mormonism.

Applied correctly the principle was responsible and still is responsible for a core of faithful and strong families at the heart of the church and its history. Even today with our large number of converts go into a ward and ask who is descended from those who practiced polygamy. You will be amazed at the number of stalwart LDS who are still the legacy of those times.

[tyler90az]

In some ways I even find the Fundamentalist mormons to be a sad fruit of Mormonism. Joseph Smitth re-introduced polygamy and other doctrines which splinter groups have maintained.

Sadly that is true, everything the Fundamentalist Mormons do hurts us also. People hear Mormon and automatically assume we are all the same religion.

[tyler90az]

People staying away from addiction is a big fruit. Wish there was a statistic on how many LDS raised become addicts.

[CV75]

Applied correctly the principle was responsible and still is responsible for a core of faithful and strong families at the heart of the church and its history. Even today with our large number of converts go into a ward and ask who is descended from those who practiced polygamy. You will be amazed at the number of stalwart LDS who are still the legacy of those times.

Which I understand to describe a fruit of faithfully applied Mormonism when the practice of plural marriage was legitimate, unlike the misapplied practice in modern times (“Fundamental Mormonism”). So a fruit of plural marriage as practiced "then" can still be a blessing to teh faithful "now" (as was promised for future generations "then"), but it would be a gross misapplication to practice it in today's Church and not yield the fruits God, Christ, Joseph, or Monson are looking for.

[sjdawg]

Applied correctly the principle was responsible and still is responsible for a core of faithful and strong families at the heart of the church and its history. Even today with our large number of converts go into a ward and ask who is descended from those who practiced polygamy. You will be amazed at the number of stalwart LDS who are still the legacy of those times.

I'm not arguing that. I'm simply saying that fundamentalist beliefs are a byproduct of those times.

[KevinG]

I'm not arguing that. I'm simply saying that fundamentalist beliefs are a byproduct of those times.

Failing to follow God's Prophet in the person of Wilford Woodruff was not a byproduct of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young. It was a byproduct of apostasy - the fruits of which you see in the FLDS Church today.

[CV75]

I think the tendency to equate Mormons with Mormonism is like equating Church members with the Church.

When the Lord says in D&C 1 that this is the “only true and living Church,” adding that He is pleased with it “collectively and not individually,” He is saying that collectively it is good because of His authority (verses 6, 22), His ordinances and everlasting covenant (verse 15); His commandments (verse 17, 24); the fullness of His gospel (verse 23); and the Book of Mormon (verse 29). Individually, some Church members do something with this, and some do not.

So collectively, Mormonism bears good fruit because of these things the Lord mentions, but not necessarily individually by each Mormon. Even so, anyone who believes and acts on his belief in God, Christ, Joseph Smith and the living prophet is bearing better fruit than he would without believing in and acting on these things. He cannot go wrong in that regard.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I once saw peas in lime jello at a ward party. Not good.

Huull

ooooouuuullll.

[Calm]

Those thoughts are not an LDS problem in particular....

Then how can they be claimed to "fruits of Mormonism"?

And I would even say such claims are not fruits of religion in general, but rather someone trying to use religion to justify a personal stance.

There may be specific interpretations of a faith community that believes those things...that means they are fruit of those communities, not religion in general.

Edited August 15, 2012 by calmoriah

[Somebodyz]

As negatives I think (my opinion only) members of the LDS Church often limit their inner circle of friends to fellow LDS people. They work with and are neighbors with non-LDS people buy my observation has been that rarely do they become close with non-LDS people.

This is so not true, in the UK and doubt it's true, in many parts of the world.

[mapman]

In my opinion, anytime humans are involved in something it's not going to be done perfectly. I think that the church has harmed at times, but since it provides ordinances and teachings that guide us towards eternal life its good fruit outweighs by far any imperfections that still exist.

[Carborendum]

Interesting, I was going to start a related thread. But this suits my purpose.

I've noticed an increasing number of comments from multiple non-LDS sources praising Mormons.

1) Statistics on Military stating that Mormons are more likely to produce higher-quality officers.

2) Wonderfully positive articles on the Church and its members.

http://www.beliefnet...m=Homepage_Lead (written by a non-Mormon).

3) I was in a debate on another forum with an anti-Mormon. I got tons of rep-pt equivalents there with many people chiming in saying that every Mormon they'd ever met was a good decent person.

4) In the house I'm staying at, the landlord just found out that I'm a Mormon and he said,"That doesn't surprise me. Every Mormon I've ever met seems like a really smart person. And you're one of the smartest I've met." I didn't know how to react to that so I simply said,"Uhm...Thank you."

5) Many evangelicals have told me personally,"I don't like the Mormon Church. But I don't care about Romney's faith. I think he can get us out of this. So I'm voting for him." Just a few years ago, many of the same people would never even consider it. (No, this was not meant to be a political plug. Just an example of the topic at hand.)

6) A major corporation in Oklahoma (sorry I don't remember the name) has an entire section of their company that is dedicated to hiring Mormons because they are more dependable, responsible, and stable individuals. They also like the fact that most actually learned something rather than partied all the time while in college. (It started because the personnel manager was tired of a lot of great talent missing Mondays due to hangovers and drug issues--among other issues.) Another positive to this company was that so many of us speak a second language (gee, I wonder where that might have come from).

7) Many government contractors who require security clearances like to hire Mormons because the LDS code allows for a greater chance of individuals successfully obtaining the required clearance.

8 ) RUMOR: Many Las Vegas casinos prefer to hire Mormons to handle cash and security. This is possible because (reportedly) Vegas has the highest LDS percentage of any city outside of Utah. Does anyone have anything to back this up?

Does anyone else think things are changing for the better for Mormons today? "Peculiar" people can be a good thing.

EDIT: And let's not forget the recent thread http://www.mormondia...ding-to-gallup/

Edited August 15, 2012 by Carborendum

[CV75]

I think it is interesting that some frame their responses in terms of Mormonism being an extension of God (the collective aspect of the Lord’s Church from D&C 1:30), and some frame their responses in terms of Mormonism being an extension of themselves or the Church members (the individual aspect). I think it is important for one to know which perspective he is coming from as well as consider the fruits of Mormonism from both points of view.

[CV75]

double post!

Edited August 15, 2012 by CV75

[ERayR]

People that are LDS and teach and/or think those particular things - a very small minority I would hope - are going to rather quickly find themselves at severe variance with the teachings of the Savior and of the Church. Just my .02.

As to the OT, I'd say the Church's emphasis on Education and Welfare are two of its fruits.

And at variance with the members in general.

[ERayR]

As negatives I think (my opinion only) members of the LDS Church often limit their inner circle of friends to fellow LDS people. They work with and are neighbors with non-LDS people buy my observation has been that rarely do they become close with non-LDS people.

That goes for any group, religious and non-religious groups alike.