Could We Discuss The Podcast In My Post After Listening With Open Minds?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Mostly those who prefer emotion to reason, and the praise of Babylon to the laws of God.

This is the real problem...emotion over reason. Common sense is no common anymore.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Did someone just imply my mind was closed?

I am all for opening my mind as long as its not so far open my brains fall onto my shoes.

Most imply I don't have a mind.

[rodheadlee]

Tacenda, I just don't have the available GB in my account to listen to the whole thing. Can't you make a summary of his points?

[selek1]

Tacenda, I just don't have the available GB in my account to listen to the whole thing. Can't you make a summary of his points?

Here it is in one sentence:

You're all meanie poopie-heads becuz you won't redefine God's laws in order to improve my self-esteem!!!!!

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Here it is in one sentence:

You're all meanie poopie-heads becuz you won't redefine God's laws in order to improve my self-esteem!!!!!

Can "I" quote you?

[ERayR]

Here it is in one sentence:

You're all meanie poopie-heads becuz you won't redefine God's laws in order to improve my self-esteem!!!!!

After having watched I would say it was along the line of homosexual people and their families hurt more than everybody else so we need some relief.

Comment on one sentence description. I don't doubt they have deep desires and pain. I have a lot of pain at seeing some of my children and grandchildren struggle with their burdens. I also have a lot of pain watching my wife struggle with health problems but it seems those are mine to deal with.

[Pahoran]

http://mormonstories...and-compassion/

Please watch Part 4. It is so informative about the discussion that was previously locked.

The wretched thing is an hour long. Is there a transcript somewhere?

And by "informative" do you mean "contains actual [hard] information" or merely "shows how people feel?"

Because here is something I find rather informative about this question: Ephesians 4:11-14.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

After having watched I would say it was along the line of homosexual people and their families hurt more than everybody else so we need some relief.

Comment on one sentence description. I don't doubt they have deep desires and pain. I have a lot of pain at seeing some of my children and grandchildren struggle with their burdens. I also have a lot of pain watching my wife struggle with health problems but it seems those are mine to deal with.

We are given grace equal to our circumstances...I have a gay child who thinks this is a silly. She comes to Church when we ask her to come...even though she lives alone. She helps pay for her brother's mission...the falicy is how these groups think they speak for all.

[ERayR]

The wretched thing is an hour long. Is there a transcript somewhere?

And by "informative" do you mean "contains actual [hard] information" or merely "shows how people feel?"

Because here is something I find rather informative about this question: Ephesians 4:11-14.

Regards,

Pahoran

Pahoran I watched the whole thing and I can say there is no referenced hard information. Dr. Bradshaw alludes to hard information but never actually presents any. It is mostly an articulate, emotional plea for understanding and tolerance (pronounced acceptance) for the homosexual lifestyle. It ended on a very emotional tightrope plea, between affirmation of a personal testimony of the church an for the church to change policy and allow married homosexual couples full church fellowship, including temple ordinances. Most of it was about his personal reaction to his sons homosexuality and his subsequent involvement with support groups and the story of his son and his committed partner and their life and raising a child.

All in all mostly an emotional approach.

Edited August 14, 2012 by ERayR

[wenglund]

Mostly those who prefer emotion to reason, and the praise of Babylon to the laws of God.

This is what I suspected, and so I am glad I didn't waste my time.

It isn't that I don't feel for the good Dr. I do. It is heart wrenching to see people caught in difficult situation where, like the fiddler on the roof, he is forced to delicately balance circumstances (his religious faith and the relationship with his beloved son) while playing out his life's tune.

Even still, the wrenching of the heart doesn't give cause to abandon the mind. Indeed, it may rightly give all the more cause to utilize both (checks and balance as it were)

From what I could tell of the part of the video that I did see, even with all his intelligence, and perhaps in spite of his intelligence, he wasn't able to strike a balance in a way that didn't compromise either his faith or his son (as Joshua was able to do as explained in his FAIR presentation), and ended up caving to his emotions and somewhat compromising/reconfiguring his faith while leaving his relationship with his son untouched--presumably because he sensed that his son wouldn't budge.

Not surprising, this emotive appeal was orchestrated by John Dehlin.

[i was sad to see you banned from my other thread. I always welcome your salient thoughts. Feel free to participate in the new thread I posted earlier today.]

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited August 14, 2012 by wenglund

[ERayR]

We are given grace equal to our circumstances...I have a gay child who thinks this is a silly. She comes to Church when we ask her to come...even though she lives alone. She helps pay for her brother's mission...the falicy is how these groups think they speak for all.

The whole thing is more about selfishness than anything else. Kudo's to your daughter. It sounds like she is comfortable with who she is and is fine with allowing others the chance to come to the same point. She is not trying to change the world to suit her. Again kudos for her.

[DBMormon]

I listened to Part 5.... Will listen to Part 4 tomorrow on my Bicycle Ride

[Pahoran]

Pahoran I watched the whole thing and I can say there is no referenced hard information. Dr. Bradshaw alludes to hard information but never actually presents any. It is mostly an articulate, emotional plea for understanding and tolerance (pronounced acceptance) for the homosexual lifestyle. It ended on a very emotional tightrope plea, between affirmation of a personal testimony of the church an for the church to change policy and allow married homosexual couples full church fellowship, including temple ordinances. Most of it was about his personal reaction to his sons homosexuality and his subsequent involvement with support groups and the story of his son and his committed partner and their life and raising a child.

All in all mostly an emotional approach.

Understanding is a very good thing. Being kind to people and accepting of them in their imperfections is something we should all be striving for. We all have imperfections and none of us should imagine that we are better than anyone else.

That said: Pretending that imperfections are really virtues goes beyond the mark. Demanding (or "pleading") that the Church change core doctrines -- such as the Law of Chastity -- is rank apostasy. Of course we expect nothing better of Mister Dehlin and his ilk, but it bears repeating that those who are prepared to sacrifice their "faith" on the altar of political correctness and worldly acceptance are in no sense finding a "middle way." They are unconditionally surrendering to the world.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Libs]

http://mormonstories...and-compassion/

Please watch Part 4. It is so informative about the discussion that was previously locked.

I'm watching/listening to Part 4, right now, Tacenda. Very, very worthwhile, IMO. Thanks for posting it. I hadn't seen this one.

[Tacenda]

Tacenda, I just don't have the available GB in my account to listen to the whole thing. Can't you make a summary of his points?

I'll work on it.

[ERayR]

Tacenda Read my post above. The end was pretty conclusive of what? Not all of us suspend reason when emotion is involved. Just so I am not accused of being hard-hearted too please note I cry for commercials. One can be emotional and at the same time able to sift and examine the issues. I was not unmoved by the mans apparent pain and emotional pleas.

Please tell me what was conclusive about the end?

[Libs]

Just finished listening.

This is not at all an "emotional approach". This man is well read, a retired BYU Professor of Biochemistry...definitely, not just an "emotional plea". He talks about how ignorant he was, on the subject of homosexuality, before becoming aware of his own son's sexual orientation. He is very matter of fact about how much he had to learn, and how much he believes that knowledge, along with having a gay son, has enriched his life.

It really would be nice, if people actually listened to this video, before commenting.

[Tacenda]

Just finished listening.

This is not at all an "emotional approach". This man is well read, a retired BYU Professor of Biochemistry...definitely, not just an "emotional plea". He talks about how ignorant he was, on the subject of homosexuality, before becoming aware of his own son's sexual orientation. He is very matter of fact about how much he had to learn, and how much he believes that knowledge, along with having a gay son, has enriched his life.

It really would be nice, if people actually listened to this video, before commenting.

Some have asked me to summarize the podcast but Libs you did such a good job here that I don't have to, haha. You have a way with words unlike me! Thanks!!

But there are some that weren't able to watch the podcast (not because they chose not to) so for the past hour I've been listening to the podcast and writing word for word (transcribing, haha) the podcast! I was a little over half way through when my hubby walked in the kitchen and rightfully so, thinks I'm losing it, so I'm going to have to finish tomorrow...

Edited August 14, 2012 by Tacenda

[ERayR]

Just finished listening.

This is not at all an "emotional approach". This man is well read, a retired BYU Professor of Biochemistry...definitely, not just an "emotional plea". He talks about how ignorant he was, on the subject of homosexuality, before becoming aware of his own son's sexual orientation. He is very matter of fact about how much he had to learn, and how much he believes that knowledge, along with having a gay son, has enriched his life.

It really would be nice, if people actually listened to this video, before commenting.

I actually did watch all 58 minutes of it. The articulate, controlled, modulated voice aside his whole presentation was designed to be an emotional plea. He alluded to factual information but did not give any references. It was all about feelings. Note: I did not say it was bad only that it was about feelings and emotion. You found it very good, I assume because you agreed with his sentiments. I found some things to come away with. Like being kinder. I however did not agree with his conclusions that the church needs to lower its standards to accommodate the homosexual life style.

[Tacenda]

Please tell me what was conclusive about the end?

I'm listening to the rest tomorrow to gather my thoughts again. I'm slow ok?

[Libs]

I actually did watch all 58 minutes of it. The articulate, controlled, modulated voice aside his whole presentation was designed to be an emotional plea. He alluded to factual information but did not give any references. It was all about feelings. Note: I did not say it was bad only that it was about feelings and emotion. You found it very good, I assume because you agreed with his sentiments. I found some things to come away with. Like being kinder. I however did not agree with his conclusions that the church needs to lower its standards to accommodate the homosexual life style.

Ray, the couple of things he mentioned (that gays do not choose their orientation and that science has found a biochemical factor in the late stages of pregnancy, that is a highly likely cause or contributing factor, in orientation, all comes from good research, and has been around for a long time (not new)....research that you will probably reject, because it doesn't agree with your opinon).

What I, personally, came away with was nothing new, for me. I believe, sincerely, that the belief that homosexuality (if allowed it's natural expression) is a sin, can be very psychologically damaging to homosexuals...and their families. I am always glad when just one more person discovers that for themselves. It also pleases me that this man embraced his son and his orientation completely and fully and didn't allow it to tear his family apart (as often happens).

Edited August 14, 2012 by Libs

[selek1]

...research that you will probably reject, because it doesn't agree with your opinon).

Well, that and his medical doctorate...

[Libs]

Duplicate post.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Libs

[Libs]

Tacenda, I didn't do a very good recap. It was pretty brief.

Basically, Dr. Bradshaw's son told him, after he went off to college, that he was gay. Dr. Bradshaw admitted he knew next to nothing about homosexuality...that his life's pursuits had kept him very busy, and he was very ignorant, in this area. He and his wife, then, set out to educate themselves...and found that many of their "beliefs" about homosexuals were very inaccurate. Bear in mind, this is a very bright man, who seems to have no problem with objectivity, even in the face of something personal like this.

Dr. Bradshaw and his wife are, now, co-chair for an LDS support group for gay parents (and the name of it has slipped my mind).

He also goes on to tell what a "normal" life his son actually lives. The son is educated and has a position at Berkeley, lives in Oakland with his spouse. He and his spouse were married while ss marriage was still legal in CA. They, now have a biological daughter via a surrogate mother. Dr. Bradshaw bragged a little about his granddaughter, of course ...and about what a wonderful person his son has always been.

Dr. Bradshaw believes this whole experience has made him a better person...he feels blessed through it. And, he supports ss marriage and does not believe that it will, in any way, diminish the ideal of marriage.

He also believes the younger generation will see and do things differently...not only will, but already do, because they have gay friends and there is more information and more gays "out" than ever...which really does help in understanding this issue.

[ERayR]

Ray, the couple of things he mentioned (that gays do not choose their orientation and that science has found a biochemical factor in the late stages of pregnancy, that is a highly likely cause or contributing factor, in orientation, all comes from good research, and has been around for a long time (not new)....research that you will probably reject, because it doesn't agree with your opinon).

I would kindly appreciate it is you would quit making my choices for me. I find it hard enough sometimes to live with the ones I make so have made it a policy not to allow others to make my choices for me. Like I said he mentions hard evidence but does not give references to where it is at. As I understand it it looks promising but inconclusive and much more work needs to be done in this area of research. It might surprise you but I have long believed there were both nature and nurture elements to this.

What I, personally, came away with was nothing new, for me. I believe, sincerely, that the belief that homosexuality (if allowed it's natural expression) is a sin, can be very psychologically damaging to homosexuals...and their families. I am always glad when just one more person discovers that for themselves. It also pleases me that this man embraced his son and his orientation completely and fully and didn't allow it to tear his family apart (as often happens).

I am glad that you and I can agree that homosexuality (if allowed it's natural expression) is a sin, can be very psychologically damaging to homosexuals...and their families.

It is also very damaging to society when long standing definitions for what is a religious sacrament is challenged and attempts are made to basically destroy it. Those that really want a committed relationship find ways to do it and legal problems can be taken care of by law without disturbing the sacrament of marriage. In fact if as much effort had been expended to correct these problems as has been expended to destroy marriage there would no longer be any problems and there would be very little opposition.

Edited August 14, 2012 by ERayR