Saints Or Sorcers? D&C 76

[Rob Osborn]

I was reading d&c 76:99 which reads-

99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.

A few verses later it mentions this group-

103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

Now what I find interesting here is that the group in 99 is in stark contrast to the group mentioned in verse 103. The group in verse 99 come f room Paul's epistle written to the church in Corinth, specifically it was addressed to the "saints" in Corinth. Paul mentioned them as having been sanctified in Christ. We know that there was some problems amongst the church members and thus the epistle. Verse 103 however does not refer to anyone sanctified or being saint worthy.

Now this all gets interesting when we read in Corinthians speaking of this group of saints as being Christs-

22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;

23 And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.

Remember, this grouping mentioned in verses 22-23 of 1st Corinthians ch.3 is the same grouping as mentioned in d&c 76:99. They are telestial right? But what does Paul tell these followers of Paul, Apollos and Cephas? That all is theirs and that they are Christ's and Christ is God's. Now thats hardly being a sorcerer! In fact, if all is theirs, parallel verses 22-23 quoted above with d&c 76: 58-59-

58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—

59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.

Sounds more like Celestial types and not sorcerers. An apparent paradox or just a classic misunderstanding?

[Glenn101]

Maybe more of a interpretation without context. First, let us look at another verse from the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 76:

100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;

101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.

Now, let us look at a few other verses from that epistle to the Corinthians: I Corinthians 3:

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Paul here does not seem to be talking about the same group of people addressed in the verses you cited from Section 76. The verses I cited provide the context.

The verses I cited from Paul's epistle provide the context for the verses you cited. A people who had heard and apparently accepted the gospel, but were struggling to adhere to the more basic concepts (milk). These are hardly a Celestial group.

Glenn

[Rob Osborn]

Verses 99 and 100-101 are speaking of two separate groups in my opinion. Verse 99 speaks directly of those early saints who have accepted Christ whereas verses 100-101 speak of another group who merely say they are of this guy or that guy but who have not accepted Christ.

[teddyaware]

The important thing to understand when reading Doctrine and Covenants 76 (The Vision) is that none of the people mentioned therein who persist in the sinful behaviors listed will be ever be able to enter the Telestial Kingdom. Those sins, so listed, rather than being typical of the attitudes and behaviors of those who to enter into the lowest kindom of glory, are, rather, the reasons why this category of the children of God are thrust into hell (spirit prison) in order to suffer the consequenses of their wickedness and folly, unmitigated.

For this particular category of sinners, the wise and compassion-inspired goal underlying exposure to the torments of hell is that our loving God, without compulsory means, causes these rebellious, hard-hearted souls to experience the very real and immutable consequenses of their own wilful violation of divine eternal law. In other words, they bring the torments and buffetings of their own self made, private hell upon themselves. This experience of being made to suffer the consequenses for ones own sins is referred to in D&C 76: 107 as "the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God," D&C76:106 says, "these are they (i.e. the various kinds of sinners referred to at the start of this thread) who are thrust down to hell to suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet (in the winepress), and shall have perfected his work."

God takes no pleasure when carrying out this sad but necessarry course of action. In fact, The B

received into the cloud.

103 These are ^athey who are ^bliars, and ^csorcerers, and ^dadulterers, and ^ewhoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

104 These are they who suffer the ^awrath of God on earth.

105 These are they who suffer the ^avengeance of eternal fire.

106 These are they who are cast down to ^ahell and ^bsuffer the wrath of ^cAlmighty God, until the ^dfulness of times, when Christ shall have ^esubdued all enemies under his ^ffeet, and shall have ^gperfected his work;

107 When he shall ^adeliver up the ^bkingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have ^covercome and have ^dtrodden the ^ewine-press ^falone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.

[teddyaware]

Sorry for any confusion in the previous post, but somehow it got sent before finishing or editing. For some reason, I cannot seem to find a means to edit my posts on this board, while I know others can. What do I have to do in order to be able to edit my posts? And so I continue where I left off:

God takes no pleasure when carrying out this sad but necessarry course of action. In fact, the Book of Moses gives us a remarkable insight into what our Father, Christ and the angels ein heaven experience when they, of righteous necessity, must cast the children of men into this place of suffering, and hopefully learning, called hell. The verses I am about to quote reveal the ultimate wise and loving purpose behind the spiritual and emotional suffering the wickedest and most rebellious of sinners are called upon to experience in the spirit prison (hell). And so we read in Moses 7:

28 And it came to pass that the God of heaven looked upon the residue of the people (before the flood), and he wept; and Enoch bore record of it, saying: How is it that the heavens weep, and shed forth their tears as the rain upon the mountains?

29 And Enoch said unto the Lord: How is it that thou canst weep, seeing thou art holy, and from all eternity to all eternity? ...

34 ... the fireof mine indignation is kindled against them; and in my hot displeasure will I send in the floods upon them, for my fierce anger is kindled against them ...

36 ... Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren.

37 But behold, their sins shall be upon the heads of their fathers; Satan shall be their father, and misery shall be their doom; and the whole heavens shall weep over them, even all the workmanship of mine hands; wherefore should not the heavens weep, seeing these shall suffer?

38 But behold, these which thine eyes are upon shall perish in the floods; and behold, I will shut them up; a prison (hell) have I prepared for them.

39 And that (Christ the Savior) which I have chosen hath pled before my face. Wherefore, he suffereth for their sins; inasmuch as they will repent in the day that my Chosen shall return unto me, and until that day they shall be in torment.

40 Wherefore, for this shall the heavens weep, yea, and all the workmanship of mine hands.

And so we can learn from the foregoing that the hypocritical, and divisive religionists (like unto the most vicious anti-Mormons), who are referred to in The Vision as being "some of Paul, some of Apollos, and some of Cephas," as well as they who are the worst "liars, and sorcerers and adulterers and whoremeongers , and whosoever loves and makes a lie." Will be sent to hell (the winepress) so that while there they can learn to humble themselves and eventually come unto Christ to to receive forgiveness at his hand; for -- as it says in verse 39 above -- he suffereth for their aforementioned sins and will forgive them if the repent. There will be no unrepentant sinners in the Telestial Kingdom, for it is one of Christ's many mansions of glory above, and the inhabitants therein enjoy communion with the Holy Spirit and with ministering messengers from the Terrestrial Kingdom, as well as angels(D&C76:86--88). At the same time, they will be blessed to be free from the influence of the devil who will be locked up in hell, along with the rest of the unrepenent sons of perdition who continue in rebellion against Christ, rejecting his love, salvation and mercy of their own free will and choice.

[Calm]

Once you hit 25 posts you can edit.

[BCSpace]

Sounds more like Celestial types and not sorcerers. An apparent paradox or just a classic misunderstanding?

No. The bottom line for D&C 76 is that you have to accept the LDS Church (or ancient equivalent) in order to get out of a Telestial glory. To do so means you have received the testimony of Jesus by comming unto him via authorized baptism. Basically, it does not matter if you're a good christian or Jew if you haven't accepted the testimony of Jesus and joined his Church. One is lumped in with the wicked who also did not improve their second estate.