Moving Away From Gathsemane...Who Is To Blame?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Thanks.

Can we look at a few verses before and after too.

16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and

to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest

you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have

tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit

In verse 18, is "caused myself, even God" referring to both Jesus and the Father who bled at every pore or just Jesus?

In verses 17-20, why would the non-repentant also suffer even as Jesus did in the Garden?

Jim

What joyous picnic do you think he has in mind for the payment of sin for those who reject his vicarious act?

[volgadon]

Thanks.

Can we look at a few verses before and after too.

16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and

to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest

you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have

tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit

In verse 18, is "caused myself, even God" referring to both Jesus and the Father who bled at every pore or just Jesus?

In verses 17-20, why would the non-repentant also suffer even as Jesus did in the Garden?

Jim

I'm not going to engage in a thread derail. It was enough to show that Gethsemane is referenced in the D&C.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I'm not going to engage in a thread derail. It was enough to show that Gethsemane is referenced in the D&C.

Thanks...wish this would get moved back. How far do you live from there Volgadon?

[volgadon]

Thanks...wish this would get moved back. How far do you live from there Volgadon?

I'm currently in the US, but my family still lives in Israel. Before the toll road was opened, it used to take 4-5 hours, now it is only 2. Our house is 5 minutes by car from the Sea of Galilee.

[volgadon]

Pa Pa, you now have as many rep points as there are days in a year.

[Calm]

I was wondering what you were doing when I noticed you gave a point to PaPa when he concurred with Carb, but not to Carb....alas now I have thrown the number off. I was giving him some extra points to make up for having his thread moved to SH, am wondering why it was too.

Edited August 14, 2012 by calmoriah

[altersteve]

Thanks.

Can we look at a few verses before and after too.

16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and

to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest

you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have

tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit

In verse 18, is "caused myself, even God" referring to both Jesus and the Father who bled at every pore or just Jesus?

In verses 17-20, why would the non-repentant also suffer even as Jesus did in the Garden?

Jim

It's referring to Jesus.

If you don't exercise faith in Christ and repent, then His Atonement has no effect on you, so you have to suffer for your own sins. That was the deal.

[altersteve]

"He was led away with a rope around His neck..."

Rope? Where did he get this from?

No idea.

"Then the heavens grew black. Darkness covered the land for the space of three hours, as it did among the Nephites".

3 hours? The Book of Mormon says 3 days.

Thanks,

Jim

Three hours in the Old World, three days in the New.

[volgadon]

I was wondering what you were doing when I noticed you gave a point to PaPa when he concurred with Carb, but not to Carb....alas now I have thrown the number off. I was giving him some extra points to make up for having his thread moved to SH, am wondering why it was too.

I don't think he'll mind the extra, but I don't know why the thread was moved either.

[ERayR]

Pa Pa I do not believe the church as moved away from Gethsemane. The focus of the LDS church has, at least as long as I can remember, has focused on the atonement and resurrection and not on suffering and death. In other words looking forward instead of back.

[volgadon]

Pa Pa I do not believe the church as moved away from Gethsemane. The focus of the LDS church has, at least as long as I can remember, has focused on the atonement and resurrection and not on suffering and death. In other words looking forward instead of back.

I think he means Baptists and such.

[theplains]

What joyous picnic do you think he has in mind for the payment of sin for those who reject his vicarious act?

I was wondering about the level of suffering when you compare it with the rich man of Luke 16 with the words in Doctrines

and Covenants 19 - "But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; Which suffering caused myself, even God,

the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would

that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink".

Was the rich man's suffering "even as I [Jesus] - sounds like equal", more, or less?

Thanks,

Jim

Edited August 15, 2012 by theplains

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Pa Pa, you now have as many rep points as there are days in a year.

I feel the love Edited August 15, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I was wondering what you were doing when I noticed you gave a point to PaPa when he concurred with Carb, but not to Carb....alas now I have thrown the number off. I was giving him some extra points to make up for having his thread moved to SH, am wondering why it was too.

I am still confused by that move.