happy Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Again, let's not make this about me. If I offended you and/or your "friend" then I do apologize.You kinda insulted a lot of us Ramona LDS. Oh well. Again, good luck.
David Bokovoy Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 You kinda insulted a lot of us Ramona LDS. Oh well. Again, good luck.It is a bit surreal to have a big smiley face come out and make false, even slanderous statements about you publicly, and then wish you "good luck," but I appreciate the sentiment.... I guess.
Calm Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Uh, I don't think so.... and that applies as a comment to both posts!The edit from the mod appears to have been after that one post (7ish, can't remember specific time).
happy Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 It is a bit surreal to have a big smiley face come out and make false, even slanderous statements about you publicly, and then wish you "good luck," but I appreciate the sentiment.... I guess.See David. I planned to move on, but now you had to escalate it and go back to calling my comments false. Do I have permission to post your Facebook comments on here including the ones you banned our mutual friend from when you said LDS conservatives are basically dumb and uneducated?
Calm Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Happy, I don't know how many other readers of this thread agree, but I believe your comments would be inappropriate for a thread about the new journal and don't think you should continue the conversation here. You might want to consider if the mods feel the same way. 1
happy Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Happy, I don't know how many other readers of this thread agree, but I believe your comments would be inappropriate for a thread about the new journal and don't think you should continue the conversation here. You might want to consider if the mods feel the same way.If it is I apologize, but I feel that a person who is given such high praise who I feel has questionable motives should be addressed. But apparently I misstepped.Several of these off topic posts have been removed to make it easier to navigate the thread.
Neophyte Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 If it is I apologize, but I feel that a person who is given such high praise who I feel has questionable motives should be addressed. But apparently I misstepped.Then start a new post about it...
happy Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Then start a new post about it...Best just to end it.
ERayR Posted August 4, 2012 Author Posted August 4, 2012 If it is I apologize, but I feel that a person who is given such high praise who I feel has questionable motives should be addressed. But apparently I misstepped.DO as you wish but do it in your own thread.Thank you :)
Robert F. Smith Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) This "divine council" thing is much overhyped. There is very little evidence of that in the Bible; whereas if you listened to them you would think it was written on every page. There is no "divine council" in Psalm 82 for example, as they would have us believe.The reason for LDS interest in the Divine Council or Council in Heaven motif is that it is integral to LDS theology (Moses 4:3, Abraham 3:22 - 5:42, Psalm 82, Isaiah 14:12-16, Job 38:6-7, Luke 10:18, Revelation 12:7-9) and this is reflected in the LDS Topical Guide entry "Council in Heaven."There is a vast literature on the subject in the Bible, by non-Mormon scholars, and I will give here several examples which contain excellent comparative material and analysis:Clifford, R. J., The Cosmic Mountain in Canaan and the Old Testament (Cambridge, Mass.: 1972).Forsyth, Neil, The Satanic Epic (Princeton Univ. Press, 2003).L’Heureux, Conrad E., Rank Among the Canaanite Gods: El, Dagan, and the Rephaim, Harvard Semitic Monograph 21 (Missoula: Scholars Press, 1979).Miller, P.D., "The Divine Council and the Prophetic Call to War," Vetus Testamentum 18 (1968): 100-107.Morgenstern, J., "The Mythological Background of Psalm 82," Hebrew Union College Annual 14 (1939): 29-126.Mullen, E. Theodore, Jr., The Assembly of the Gods: The Divine Council in Canaanite and Early Hebrew Literature, Harvard Semitic Monograph 2?? (Chico: Scholars Press, 1980).Tsevat, Matitiahu, "God and the Gods in Assembly," HUCA 40-41 (1969-1970): 123-137.Whybray, R. N., The Heavenly Counsellor in Isaiah XL 13-14: A Study of the Sources of the Theology of Deutero-Isaiah, Society for Old Testament Study Monograph Series (Cambridge University Press, 1971). Edited August 4, 2012 by Robert F. Smith 3
Anijen Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 I have not read this entire thread, I apologize if already talked about.Is there a link to watch a recording of it?
Robert F. Smith Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Hey thanks! That's what I was looking for.I certainly hope I can get there, but I have some other issues at the moment which may get in the way.In the meantime, do you know Benjamin Huff? He is still not responding to my emails.If you don't have his university email address, I can give it to you privately.
Calm Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) I may be out of date, others can correct me if I am wrong, but in the past videos of FAIR conference talks were not posted online for free immediately after the conference as we use them as part of the fundraising efforts. youtube vids of past conferences appear to go up to 2006 so far: http://en.fairmormon.org/Topical_Guide/Multimedia_presentations/Videos/YouTube/FAIR_ConferenceTranscripts are being put up as quickly as they can, some are already available: http://www.fairlds.org/fair-conferences/2012-fair-conference Edited August 4, 2012 by calmoriah
Darren10 Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 This "divine council" thing is much overhyped. There is very little evidence of that in the Bible; whereas if you listened to them you would think it was written on every page. There is no "divine council" in Psalm 82 for example, as they would have us believe.I don't buy into it much either but I really like what peoplelike Hamblin and others have said about it.
Darren10 Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Contrary to popular opinion the church has never been just one political party or view. I disagree with Br. Bokovoy politically but I admire his scholarship. This is why we don't allow political threads here: members in good standing can become very hostile and negative toward each other.Correct. In general people should not get hostile over politics though many times passion rules the game. In the LDS Church I think we members need to take extra care not to allow politics to divide us. I know several members whom I disagree on lots of things politcally but I do not allow that to impede my fellowship with them. In fact were I to do so, I would be serving evil itself. The Book of Mormon says so. 3
volgadon Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Hey thanks! That's what I was looking for.I certainly hope I can get there, but I have some other issues at the moment which may get in the way.In the meantime, do you know Benjamin Huff? He is still not responding to my emails.If you do make it, let me know.Also, I'm pretty sure I know Benjamin Huff, if he is the BYU-I professor.
volgadon Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 It is a bit surreal to have a big smiley face come out and make false, even slanderous statements about you publicly, and then wish you "good luck," but I appreciate the sentiment.... I guess.The question is, what kind of surrealism? Chagall or Dali? 1
Calm Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 If you do make it, let me know.Also, I'm pretty sure I know Benjamin Huff, if he is the BYU-I professor.Not anymore if he was ever there (I don't know), he's at Randolph Macon.http://www.rmc.edu/Academics/philosophy/faculty.aspxHe reminds me of his mom....and his dad who we happened to meet while in Russia. Good people.
volgadon Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Did you present this idea in a former FAIR Conference? I remember a person speaking about shamans and the possible connections to Lehi and Nephi's teachings.A great book on shamanism and heavenly ascents is Ioan P. Culianu's "Out of this World: Otherworldly Journeys from Gilgamesh to Albert Einstein."
Kerry A. Shirts Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Before today I would have never recognized the name "David Bokovoy". However, having read through a good portion of “Thou Knowest That I Believe: Invoking The Spirit of the Lord as Council Witness in 1 Nephi 11”, I am deeply impressed. It's obvious that Bill Hamblin was his professor as Bokovoy's presentation ofthe Divine Council would make Bill proud.I was astonished at Zerinus' comment about Bokovoy. HOW could anyone NOT be impressed with his materials? But anyway, that aside, whatever you can read of David Bokovoy you will come away a better informed person, and rather humbled that after all those years of reading and getting the hang of things, here comes that lil snot nosed kid (HEY! I am allowed this, I am an old dud of 51 years now ) and shows you that you really ain't up to snuff, you don't know diddly, and in fact, he demonstrates much to we old farts consternations that sometimes......yes, just sometimes, youth actually DOES outdo older, more mature, seasoned, intellectually powerful people.....(No, I am not talking about me, I am talking about Hamblin and Peterson..... ) Edited August 5, 2012 by Kerry A. Shirts
Kerry A. Shirts Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 I apologize for any inconvenience with which my expose about you and herr bro Peterson are actually old. I know, I sincerely know I wasn't suppose to spill the beans, and truly, without question or consternation, I feel very badly about said indiscretion, hence, my offer of amends by sometime coming back down to Utah as I can and buying you lunch or dinner....... that way we old duffs can figure out a way to catch up to the youthful and ever vibrant Bokovoys of the world, eh?
David Bokovoy Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 I love you, Kerry. Can't believe you came to Utah and didn't come partake of smoked animal flesh with me.
David Bokovoy Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Gotcha... so it's the Fundamentalist Journal of Book of Mormon Studies Ha!Enjoyed your paper, by the way. Served as an interesting compliment to Don Bradley's wonderful FAIR presentation.Thank you, David. It really does work well with some of Don's observations. But trust me, Don's presentation only scratched the surface of his amazing observations. I'm really, really excited about his book. 1
Recommended Posts