Learning That Joseph Practiced Plural Marriage

[Scott Lloyd]

I just saw this on a thread that is now locked.

cwald wrote:

I was a faithful lds member my whole life (mission, seminary EQP etc) and I didn't learn about joseph smith's pologamy until I was 35 years old...let alone polyandry. Why not?

Because I didn't read "anti Mormon" websites or FAIR journals?

Up until he was 35, did cwald never read Doctrine and Covenants 132?

I ask, because I find it enigmatic that a reader of average-or-better comprehension could read that section and not get the message that Joseph not only received a revelation commanding that plurall marriage be instituted in this dispensation but that he taught it to others and practiced it himself.

[Darren10]

cwald may be a good member of the Church and have better than average reading skills but, sheesh, 35?!?!?! Must have skipped seminary a bit or slept during the D&C year. What about the Church cirriculum? It's there, I tell ya.

[Calm]

I can understand not learning about polyandry, but I do find it surprising when I hear of longtime active members who do not know of any plural marriage on Joseph's part specifically because of Sec. 132, especially if they themselves are married. This may be a reflection of my own attention to the concept of celestial marriage when I was getting ready to be married, but celestial marriage is studied enough in the Church that I would think someone would notice when the section is referred to so much.

add-on: google comes up with "[a]bout 4,790 results" when one does a search on "D&C 132" site:lds.org, even granting that many of the hits are duplicates, that is going to be a lot of references and therefore reasons to go and take a look at the section for oneself.

Edited July 18, 2012 by calmoriah

[Storm Rider]

I am not sure what is the difference if Joseph started polygamy or Brigham, the effect is the same. Joseph received the revelation; why would anyone suspect that he did not obey?

[cwald]

Maybe if the other thread had not been locked you would understand why I was an active Mormon, mission, seminary, EQP etc etc who did not learn about JOSEPH'S SMITH'S pologamy and polyandry.

[cwald]

PS...nope. I did not read d&c 132.... it was not part of our daily scripture reading, never taught in sunday school or priesthood class, had nothing to with missionary discussions and nothing to do with seminary.

[Scott Lloyd]

Maybe if the other thread had not been locked you would understand why I was an active Mormon, mission, seminary, EQP etc etc who did not learn about JOSEPH'S SMITH'S pologamy and polyandry.

I have extensive life experience with seminary, full-time mission, priesthood quorum instruction, etc. In all of those venues, the earnest admonition has gone forth more times than I can count to read and study the scriptures of the Church. Which is why I find it remarkable that a normal adult male professing lifelong activity in the Church could arrive at his mid-30s never having been exposed to D&C 132.

Just sayin'.

[Libs]

I just saw this on a thread that is now locked.

cwald wrote:

Up until he was 35, did cwald never read Doctrine and Covenants 132?

I ask, because I find it enigmatic that a reader of average-or-better comprehension could read that section and not get the message that Joseph not only received a revelation commanding that plurall marriage be instituted in this dispensation but that he taught it to others and practiced it himself.

I gave you a rep point, but I didn't intend to...sorry. I meant to look at who repped you for this and pressed the arrow, instead. Oops. It's okay, though. I just wanted to say, that I have known a lot of people who didn't know about Joseph Smith's polygamy...or, at least, didn't know about the specifics. It's not really that rare. I guess we LDS are not very good at reading the D & C. I know I didn't read it all the way through, until I had been in the church for four or five years.

[cwald]

Once again, I graduated from seminary, served a mission, taught adult Sunday school for eight years, been an EQP, and even taught my own teen seminary last year...which was church history...there is almost nothing in there about d&c 132, or JOSEPH SMITH'S pologamy, let alone his polyandry. why?

Edited July 18, 2012 by cwald

[Scott Lloyd]

PS...nope. I did not read d&c 132.... it was not part of our daily scripture reading, never taught in sunday school or priesthood class, had nothing to with missionary discussions and nothing to do with seminary.

Did somebody give you to understand that you were forbidden to read any but specified passages in the scriptures? How sad if that's the case. But if that happened to me, my intellectual curiosity is such that it would be the very thing to motivate me to look at the passages that weren't specified.

[Scott Lloyd]

I gave you a rep point, but I didn't intend to...sorry. I meant to look at who repped you for this and pressed the arrow, instead. Oops. It's okay, though. I just wanted to say, that I have known a lot of people who didn't know about Joseph Smith's polygamy...or, at least, didn't know about the specifics. It's not really that rare. I guess we LDS are not very good at reading the D & C. I know I didn't read it all the way through, until I had been in the church for four or five years.

Four or five years I can understand. But a 35-year lifetime?

I can only shake my head in wonderment.

[cwald]

Did somebody give you to understand that you were forbidden to read any but specified passages in the scriptures? How sad if that's the case. But if that happened to me, my intellectual curiosity is such that it would be the very thing to motivate me to look at the passages that weren't specified.

Nope. I just didn't know any better. I was faithful and shelved all my doubts. It was never an issue. ..until I learned the details.

I wish the other thread had not been locked...I thought it was a pretty fair discussion. I doubt this one will be.

Edited July 18, 2012 by cwald

[cwald]

Let me ask you educated folks a question...make this a real thread rather than a throw cwald under the bus....what pecentage of the LDS membership do you figure, of the actual active LDS members know the DETAILS of JOSEPH SMITH's poligamy. Let alone his polyandry?

[Scott Lloyd]

Nope. I just didn't know any better. I was faithful and shelved all my doubts. It was never an issue. ..until I learned the details.

I wish the other thread had not been locked...I thought it was a pretty fair discussion. I doubt this one will be.

It could be argued that faithfulness includes obeying the near-constant counsel to read and study the scriptures -- all of them. In which case one would have come upon Doctrine and Covenants 132 sooner or later.

And I have never had anyone suggest or even hint to me that faithfulness in the Church involved only reading a portion of the scriptures.

Here, by the way, is the heading to that Section:

Revelation given thorugh Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church 5:501-7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

[bold emphasis mine].

[cwald]

Okay...I was a crappy Mormon. Thanks. Now answer my question.

[Scott Lloyd]

Let me ask you educated folks a question...make this a real thread rather than a throw cwald under the bus....what pecentage of the LDS membership do you figure, of the actual active LDS members know the DETAILS of JOSEPH SMITH's poligamy. Let alone his polyandry?

The question strikes me as irrelevant. The doctrine of plurality of wives is there in the scriptures -- which all faithful Latter-day Saints are admonished to read and study in their entirety, especially the scriptures that have come forth in the latter days, such as the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants.

And I reject the insinuation that it is only "educated folks" in the Church who are apt to be acquainted with the scriptures.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

Okay...I was a crappy Mormon. Thanks. Now answer my question.

I guess my answer would be that the Church should not be blamed for an individual's failure to follow counsel.

[cwald]

Poor answer. And it is not irrelevant to many church members.

[cwald]

Please Scott...you can do better to help those who doubt and struggle. That answer is insulting.

[Bernard Gui]

From the Gospel Doctrine manual, D&C and church history chapter 31:

6. Plural marriage

The following information is provided to help you if class members have questions about the practice of plural marriage. It should not be the focus of the lesson.

The Lord’s purpose for commanding His people to practice plural marriage

In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Jacob taught: “For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife. … [but] if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things” (Jacob 2:27, 30). At various times throughout biblical history, the Lord commanded people to practice plural marriage. For example, He gave this command to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon (D&C 132:1).

The revelation to practice plural marriage in this dispensation

In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they obeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood.

The Church’s position on plural marriage today

In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration 1, pages 291–92 in the Doctrine and Covenants; see also the excerpts from addresses by President Woodruff that immediately follow Official Declaration 1).

In 1998, President Gordon B. Hinckley made the following statement about the Church’s position on plural marriage: “This Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. … If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church” (in (Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, Lesson 31: “Sealed … for Time and for All Eternity”)

[Scott Lloyd]

Please Scott...you can do better to help those who doubt and struggle. That answer is insulting.

Why should the church be held accountable for someone's failure to encounter information that was there all along in material that the person was invited -- nay, admonished -- to read and study? I don't get it.

But if you are determined to play the victim card, I'm not interested in continuing this conversation further.

[Scott Lloyd]

From the Gospel Doctrine manual, D&C and church history chapter 31:

6. Plural marriage

The following information is provided to help you if class members have questions about the practice of plural marriage. It should not be the focus of the lesson.

The Lord’s purpose for commanding His people to practice plural marriage

In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Jacob taught: “For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife. … [but] if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things” (Jacob 2:27, 30). At various times throughout biblical history, the Lord commanded people to practice plural marriage. For example, He gave this command to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon (D&C 132:1).

The revelation to practice plural marriage in this dispensation

In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they obeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood.

The Church’s position on plural marriage today

In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration 1, pages 291–92 in the Doctrine and Covenants; see also the excerpts from addresses by President Woodruff that immediately follow Official Declaration 1).

In 1998, President Gordon B. Hinckley made the following statement about the Church’s position on plural marriage: “This Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. … If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church” (in (Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, Lesson 31: “Sealed … for Time and for All Eternity”)

Thank you.

I was going to quote that earlier, but I'm having trouble with the quote function on the board.

There is also this from the Book of Mormon Gospel Doctrine Teacher's Manual, Lesson 12:

1. Jacob condemns the unauthorized practice of plural marriage

• •
  Whom did the Nephites claim as examples to justify their whoredoms? (See Jacob 2:23–24.) Why were David and Solomon unworthy examples? (See D&C 132:38–39. The Lord gave wives and concubines to David and Solomon, but they sinned by marrying additional wives outside of the covenant.) You may want to explain that anciently, a concubine was not an immoral mistress, but a legal wife of lesser social standing (see Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed. [1966], 154).
  
• •
  What marriage law did Jacob teach to the Nephites? (See Jacob 2:27–28.)
  The Prophet Joseph Smith taught, “I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 324).
  Explain that the Lord gave such direction (see D&C 132), but He later withdrew His sanction of plural marriage when conditions changed (see Official Declaration 1). Emphasize that the law of the Lord regarding marriage today is the same as it was in Jacob’s day.
  

[Bernard Gui]

From the official Church Sunday School manual Our Heritage, chapter 8:

Persecution Continues

While working on the translation of the Bible in the early 1830s, the Prophet Joseph Smith became troubled by the fact that Abraham, Jacob, David, and other Old Testament leaders had more than one wife. The Prophet prayed for understanding and learned that at certain times, for specific purposes, following divinely given laws, plural marriage was approved and directed by God. Joseph Smith also learned that with divine approval, some Latter-day Saints would soon be chosen by priesthood authority to marry more than one wife. A number of Latter-day Saints practiced plural marriage in Nauvoo, but a public announcement of this doctrine and practice was not made until the August 1852 general conference in Salt Lake City. At that conference, Elder Orson Pratt, as directed by President Brigham Young, announced that the practice of a man having more than one wife was part of the Lord’s restitution of all things (see Acts 3:19–21).

Many of America’s religious and political leaders became very angry when they learned that Latter-day Saints living in Utah were encouraging a marriage system that they considered immoral and unchristian. A great political crusade was launched against the Church and its members. The United States Congress passed legislation that curbed the freedom of the Latter-day Saints and hurt the Church economically. This legislation ultimately caused officers to arrest and imprison men who had more than one wife and to deny them the right to vote, the right to privacy in their homes, and the enjoyment of other civil liberties. Hundreds of faithful Latter-day Saint men and a few women served time in prisons located in Utah, Idaho, Arizona, Nebraska, Michigan, and South Dakota.

Persecution also became intense for many who accepted callings to preach the gospel, especially in the southern United States. For example, in July 1878 Elder Joseph Standing was brutally murdered while laboring near Rome, Georgia. His companion, the future Apostle Rudger Clawson, only narrowly escaped death. The Saints in Salt Lake City were very affected by the news of Elder Standing’s murder, and thousands of people attended his funeral in the Salt Lake Tabernacle.

Elders John Gibbs, William Berry, William Jones, and Henry Thompson traveled throughout much of Tennessee attempting to change the public’s perception of the Church. They rested one Sabbath morning in August 1884 at the James Condor home near Cane Creek in Tennessee. As Elder Gibbs studied the scriptures looking for a text for his sermon, a mob burst through the forest and began shooting. Elders Gibbs and Berry were killed. Elder Gibbs, a schoolteacher, left a wife and three children mourning his death. Sister Gibbs remained a widow for 43 years and became a midwife to support her children. She died faithful in the gospel, anticipating a joyful reunion with her husband. Brigham Henry Roberts, the acting mission president at the time of the murders, risked his life by going in disguise to exhume the bodies of Gibbs and Berry. He returned the bodies to Utah, where many wards held memorial services in honor of the two elders.

Missionaries in other areas were beaten until blood ran down their backs, and many carried the scars of these whippings to their graves. It was not an easy time to be a member of the Church.

Many Church leaders went into hiding to avoid arrest by federal officers searching for men with more than one wife. Families feared late-night intrusions by these officers. President George Q. Cannon, Lorenzo Snow, Rudger Clawson, Brigham Henry Roberts, George Reynolds, and many others were sent to prison, where they passed the time by writing books, teaching school, and composing letters to their families. President John Taylor was forced to live in exile in Kaysville, Utah, about 20 miles north of Salt Lake City, where he died on 25 July 1887. He was a man of faith and courage who devoted his life to his testimony of Jesus Christ and to the establishment of God’s kingdom on the earth.

[Darren10]

Nope. I just didn't know any better. I was faithful and shelved all my doubts. It was never an issue. ..until I learned the details.

I wish the other thread had not been locked...I thought it was a pretty fair discussion. I doubt this one will be.

It was locked by request, no? Also, you got yourself placed in a "timeout" after a clear warning to you to tone things down. Now, I've read about three times (I had to stop after the third to respond) how you wished the former thread was not locked so that you can tell your story. Well, this thread's more or less about you so, why not tell it here? Like, right now? If you have time to complain that you didn't get ot tell your story then you also have time to tell your story.

[Darren10]

Let me ask you educated folks a question...make this a real thread rather than a throw cwald under the bus....what pecentage of the LDS membership do you figure, of the actual active LDS members know the DETAILS of JOSEPH SMITH's poligamy. Let alone his polyandry?

Probably low on the details and even lower on the polyandry.