Bloomberg Does Mormonism

[Senator]

None of this jives with Jesus telling the apostles take no thought for the morrow and to go perform without purse or script. Is God too weak to help? I thought one couldn't serve two masters.... Here we see now a change admitting that it definitely seeks God AND mammon. Now what? What happened to be in the world but not of the world? I truly am curious how this even has anything to do with building up Zion, which we are told is supposed to be in Missouri, not Salt Lake City.....

Hi Kerry,

I too have spent much time pondering over what appears to be an awkward dichotomy between calls to "come ye out of Babylon" and "the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion and not for money" contriaried by "make unto yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness".

The answer I believe lies in answer to the question of whether or not the Zion applicant has indeed been accepted of the Lord, and been redeemed by him? Until this happens it appears we are left with one foot in the temporal Kingdom of God and the other in Babylon. We are left with, and seemingly taught how to, dance a tenuous dance with the devil, until the day when the Lord redeems his people; the day in which he then says, "I will go before you and be at your rear. I will be to your left and to your right. You shall not fight your fights any longer, but I will fight you battles." Only then can the people truely be able to thumb their noses at Babylon and all her institutions of dominion.

That's how I see it anyway, for what it's worth.

[danielwoods]

Maybe someone could tell me where another church has built a theme park or a mall?

I thought I Pat Robertson did once, but I can't find it. Of course I don't consider him a church, but I was looking for something similar to what the LDS church does.

[why me]

In the words of my father "if only the church would build facilities like care centers for the elderly", when my mom was in the last stages of ahlzheimers and it was difficult to find decent ones. Wouldn't places like this provide employment with higher pay than the mall, for those that state it helps the economy by building the mall? Also, look what happened to the Crossroads/Zcmi malls. When I mentioned the mall to my mother in law, who her whole life lived very frugal and never buys herself anything, encourages food storage by giving her children money, including married grandkids to get their food storage. She said she won't be going there to shop. She is the epitome of faithful and gives of her time (weekly temple attendance) supports monetarily, missionaries in the family and some that aren't, when they can't afford it. So maybe something less in your face, to spend, spend, spend.

And who would be cared for in these institutions? Mormons? Catholics? etc? Plus, it is not very easy to get into the care industry. Money would need to be charged to these patients and their famillies. If not, it is a money loser for sure. And how much should be charged in such institutions? And what about the medical expenses? I am afraid that it is very nearly impossible to have such a facility. The answer to this of course would be public health care which would be affordable to all.

The mall doesn't have to be about spending, spending spending. But it can be a place where people can shop for necessary things. But more importantly it is providing hundreds and hundreds of jobs to young people who need work and for the seniors who need to supplement their income and for others too. It is a win win for salt lake.

[why me]

Maybe someone could tell me where another church has built a theme park or a mall?

I thought I Pat Robertson did once, but I can't find it. Of course I don't consider him a church, but I was looking for something similar to what the LDS church does.

What else should have been built downtown? Do you have any ideas what that part of the area needed that would bring vibrancy to the area?

[ERayR]

Maybe someone could tell me where another church has built a theme park or a mall?

I thought I Pat Robertson did once, but I can't find it. Of course I don't consider him a church, but I was looking for something similar to what the LDS church does.

Of what value would that be? We individually or as a church are not bound by what others do.

[danielwoods]

What else should have been built downtown? Do you have any ideas what that part of the area needed that would bring vibrancy to the area?

Have you been to City Creek? It's an expensive place. Not your average shopper goes there, high dollar for sure.

I'm less interested in what the LDS church spends it's money on, and simply interested in pointing out how it appears to the rest of the world.

[danielwoods]

Of what value would that be? We individually or as a church are not bound by what others do.

Right, I agree. However, when a church acts like a business and hides it's finances, that's news because they are doing something that no one else does.

[ERayR]

Have you been to City Creek? It's an expensive place. Not your average shopper goes there, high dollar for sure.

I'm less interested in what the LDS church spends it's money on, and simply interested in pointing out how it appears to the rest of the world.

If one lets their actions be controlled by what it looks like to others they will soon be running in circles trying to please everybody and pleasing none.

[ERayR]

Right, I agree. However, when a church acts like a business and hides it's finances, that's news because they are doing something that no one else does.

The church does not act like a business. They act like a non-profit organization whose mission is to:

1-Proclaim the gospel

2-Perfect the Saints

3-Redeem the Dead

4-Care for the Needy

[why me]

I'm less interested in what the LDS church spends it's money on, and simply interested in pointing out how it appears to the rest of the world.

Americans care these days for what creates jobs. This is what is important. If americans can find jobs in city creek mall, so be it. That is all they care about. What do americans see in that mall? Jobs, vibrancy and opportunity. What else do americans care about in time of depression and recession?

[ERayR]

Americans care these days for what creates jobs. This is what is important. If americans can find jobs in city creek mall, so be it. That is all they care about. What do americans see in that mall? Jobs, vibrancy and opportunity. What else do americans care about in time of depression and recession?

And most Americans will never know nor care who owns it.

Edited July 14, 2012 by ERayR

[danielwoods]

The church does not act like a business. They act like a non-profit organization whose mission is to:

1-Proclaim the gospel

2-Perfect the Saints

3-Redeem the Dead

4-Care for the Needy

And if that's all they did, they wouldn't make the cover of Business Week.

[why me]

What I find amazing are americans because this mall is part owned by the lds church are criticizing it. You need to do a reality check. America is about business and consumerism. Period. To criticize a mall is unamerican . What is needed in america today is job creation and the lds church has helped achieve that with this mall development. Some of you sound like europeans who have lived under a welfare state. Lets face it, the mall is vibrant and providing work for thousands of people. Not bad. And it saves salt lake from blight and despair. As long as the shops are busy, it is a success story.

[why me]

And most Americans will never know nor care who owns it.

What I find funny are news reports that put the lds church behind this mall as if it is a terrible thing. News sources that are usually pro-capitalist and pro business. Here is another one from the HuffingtonPost online:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/22/city-creek-mormon-mall_n_1372695.html

This was in their business section. However, anyone reading between the lines would admire a church for it hutzpah in opening a mall that will provide thousands of jobs during this time of economic slowdown and layoffs. I say admiration not vilification.

[why me]

And if that's all they did, they wouldn't make the cover of Business Week.

Admiration and not vilification. Thousands of jobs in a time of economic decline and layoffs. People need work. Go to city creek mall and put in an application, if anyone lives in salt lake. True, you will not get rich, but it is good for the resume until something better comes along.

Edited July 14, 2012 by why me

[ERayR]

What I find funny are news reports that put the lds church behind this mall as if it is a terrible thing. News sources that are usually pro-capitalist and pro business. Here is another one from the HuffingtonPost online:

http://www.huffingto..._n_1372695.html

This was in their business section. However, anyone reading between the lines would admire a church for it hutzpah in opening a mall that will provide thousands of jobs during this time of economic slowdown and layoffs. I say admiration not vilification.

The Huffington Post is neither pro capitalist or pro business.

[Tacenda]

The Huffington Post is neither pro capitalist or pro business.

It does feel like The Huffington Post has a chip on it's shoulder where the LDS church is concerned. I'm not sure why that is unless maybe alot of them are Democrat and want to shed a bad light on Romney's religion. I'm still on the fence about the mall. I'm pleased that nearly all the stores are closed on Sunday's with the exception of a couple of restaurants. I do see that the mall can generate alot of customers from in the state (it's still very crowded!) and out of state that's for sure. But I hope money generated from it doesn't just propagate more investment ventures and are instead sent to the needy and maybe even find other parts of the world that could use a boost to their economy, now that would be a win, win situation.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Tacenda

[why me]

The Huffington Post is neither pro capitalist or pro business.

It is. It is certainly not against them. They just may have a more liberal take on it. But Huffington herself is about making money.

[why me]

I do see that the mall can generate alot of customers from in the state (it's still very crowded!) and out of state that's for sure. But I hope money generated from it doesn't just propagate more investment ventures and are instead sent to the needy and maybe even find other parts of the world that could use a boost to their economy, now that would be a win, win situation.

What is overlooked it that it is generating taxes for the state which in the end does benefit everyone, including social programs. The church does not have full ownership of the mall. They do have a business partner that gets their fair share.

[ERayR]

It does feel like The Huffington Post has a chip on it's shoulder where the LDS church is concerned. I'm not sure why that is unless maybe alot of them are Democrat and want to shed a bad light on Romney's religion. I'm still on the fence about the mall. I'm pleased that nearly all the stores are closed on Sunday's with the exception of a couple of restaurants. I do see that the mall can generate alot of customers from in the state (it's still very crowded!) and out of state that's for sure. But I hope money generated from it doesn't just propagate more investment ventures and are instead sent to the needy and maybe even find other parts of the world that could use a boost to their economy, now that would be a win, win situation.

Arianna Huffington is an uber liberal supporter of the democrats with close ties to Barack Obama. And yes it wouldn't hurt he feelings at all to damage Romney and use the church as a tool.

[why me]

Arianna Huffington is an uber liberal supporter of the democrats with close ties to Barack Obama. And yes it wouldn't hurt he feelings at all to damage Romney and use the church as a tool.

As she makes money doing it.

[ERayR]

It is. It is certainly not against them. They just may have a more liberal take on it. But Huffington herself is about making money.

I said nothing about making money. One does not have to be pro capitalist or pro business in order to be about making money.

[why me]

Reaction from a blog:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/13/businessweeks-mormon-caricature-cover-draws-fire/

Reading the blog will give the church reaction to the article. Good to see that other religious groups find the cover offensive.

[CASteinman]

Back in the 80's and early 90s I used to subscribe to Business Week. It was probably the most valuable periodical I subscribed to.

I recently tried it again. Now it is Bloombergs Business Week.

It is pretty much worthless. I cancelled my subscription after getting many issues that went almost directly into the trash can.

[Pahoran]

In the words of my father "if only the church would build facilities like care centers for the elderly", when my mom was in the last stages of ahlzheimers and it was difficult to find decent ones. Wouldn't places like this provide employment with higher pay than the mall, for those that state it helps the economy by building the mall? Also, look what happened to the Crossroads/Zcmi malls. When I mentioned the mall to my mother in law, who her whole life lived very frugal and never buys herself anything, encourages food storage by giving her children money, including married grandkids to get their food storage. She said she won't be going there to shop. She is the epitome of faithful and gives of her time (weekly temple attendance) supports monetarily, missionaries in the family and some that aren't, when they can't afford it. So maybe something less in your face, to spend, spend, spend.

The mall will provide jobs and therefore generate city, state and federal tax revenues, both directly and indirectly. It will (more importantly) beautify the area of SLC nearest to the headquarters of the Church, Temple Square and the Conference Center -- and it will be financially self-sustaining.

This is something the naysayers and finger-pointers either ignore or don't get. The money the Church invested in the mall is not gone -- it is merely invested. The money returned on that investment -- and potentially the principal amount -- is and will continue to be available for the Church to use in continuance of its mission.

OTOH, money handed out in charitable ventures such as aged care facilities is really gone; it will never come back. And if the facilities are subsidised -- as they would probably have to be, if the patients and their families cannot afford such care from currently available outlets -- then that represents a continual financial drain.

I'm not saying that such things are bad, but I wonder if that kind of specialised health care is so close to the Church's core mission that it should commit itself to ongoing financial obligations for the indefinite future in order to provide it.

Regards,

Pahoran