Michael Coe Interview On Mormonstories

[Calm]

While this would be wonderful, is there a copyright problem with it possibly? Or since it is for study, does it qualify under FAIR use....?

Edited July 11, 2012 by calmoriah

[cursor]

I will certainly investigate, prior to publication here. Thanks for your concern.

[cursor]

BTW ... the James L. Bradley Zelph episode is totally ... wait, did I say "totally" worthless. What might possibly have been the point in posting it? Did you even view it, cinepro? If so, what significance might you imagine it could have? Thanks

[robuchan]

BTW ... the James L. Bradley Zelph episode is totally ... wait, did I say "totally" worthless. What might possibly have been the point in posting it? Did you even view it, cinepro? If so, what significance might you imagine it could have? Thanks

Cinepro's about the lol's. I appreciated it.

[ANACO]

Apologies to ANACO for not having noticed his earlier post [#67] in this thread.

I haven't yet asked my father ... but I'll see what I can offer on my own (and grabbing a few facts from his writings)..

While Joseph Smith translated the ancient Mesoamerican codex by the power of God, that does not mean that he was necessarily privy to everything related to it. If not, and if he did not share Mormon's life experience, and who lived his life within that geographic scope, then he was left to learn on his own (like the rest of us). Did Brigham Young know where the Book of Mormon events unfolded? Does Thomas S. Monson currently know?

In a 1890 statement from George Q. Cannon, counselor in the First Presidency:

“The First Presidency have often been asked to prepare some suggestive map illustrative of Nephite geography, but have never consented to do so. Nor are we acquainted with any of the Twelve Apostles who would undertake such a task. The reason is, that without further information they are not prepared even to suggest [a map]. The word of the Lord or the translation of other ancient records is required to clear up many points now so obscure.”

Around 1918 president Joseph F. Smith "declined to officially approve of [any map], saying that the Lord had not yet revealed it."

In 1950 apostle John A. Widtsoe said,

"As far as can be learned, the Prophet Joseph Smith, translator of the book, did not say where, on the American continent, Book of Mormon activities occurred. Perhaps he did not know. However, certain facts and traditions of varying reliability are used as foundation guides by students of Book of Mormon geography."

Cursor, thank you for replying to my post. I haven't been on this site in a few days, and the first thing I see here is your response. Thank you. Your father and my father are approx. the same age, both are Veterans of WWII - for which your Father should be honored. Their time is valuable. So please give my thanks to him for his.

If I could add, the significance of Zelph: The good gentleman Brother Bradley was introducing the Zelph account as recorded in the History of the Church here http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperDetails/history-1838%E2%80%931856-volume-a-1?dm=image-and-text&zm=zoom-inner&tm=expanded&p=489&s=zelph&sm=none on pages 488-489 on the site (Joseph Smith Papers.org - History of the Church 1838-1856 Volum A-1) by first speaking of Zions Camp.

The members of that camp were walking/traveling from Ohio to Missouri, as you know, and the Prophet mentioned Zelph had been a righteous white Lamanite, etc, as you can read. This would place some of the Book of Mormon geography in North America.

But from what I've read, LDS Apologists for the LGT discount the story of Zelph as noted in the article linked by Cursor.

What is the Significance of Zelph in the Study of ...

This is due to their belief that the Prophet Joseph Smith discovered the geographical location from a book of travels, a popular book in its day, written by John Lloyd Stephens, by the way, even reviewed by that newspaper editor, author and poet, Mr. Edgar Allan Poe - here - a contemporary of The Prophet. Mr. Stephens book is available for free at GoogleBooks - (as are many books with expired copyright). A copy of Stephen's book, the first volume I believe, was gifted to the Prophet by Bishop Bernhisel of New York and delivered to him by I believe, Wildford Woodruff, who was returning from a mission in Europe and passed through New York.

John Lloyd Stephens was a very popular author of travel books. This can be noted by Edgar Allan Poe's review again here .

Apparently, the excitement of discovering or the re-discovery, if you will, of some Maya cities in the Yucatan, was quite the sensation nation-wide - at least from what I read.

Thus we have this comment:

Enthusiastic comments published at Nauvoo showed that the Church's leaders, including Joseph Smith, were immensely stimulated by the new information. Within a few weeks of the first notice, they announced they had just discovered, by reading Stephens's book, that the Nephites' prime homeland must have been in Central, not South, America.

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=41&chapid=196

and

What may startle some about this situation is that most of what Joseph Smith said or implied about geography indicates that he did not understand or was ambiguous about the fact, as it turns out, that Mesoamerica was the particular setting for Nephite

history. http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=41&chapid=196

I do find this claim startling - that everything Joseph Smith had said earlier "about geography" - including the account about Zelph years earlier - was because he was ambiguous, or didn't understand what he was talking about. And this allegedly up to approx. two years before the Prophet's death.

This is why I had posed the question to Cursor, if his Father's views were still the same.

Respectfully and with Kind regards

[cursor]

While this would be wonderful, is there a copyright problem with it possibly? Or since it is for study, does it qualify under FAIR use....?

I contacted John Dehlin, asking for permission to post a full transcript of the Michael Coe podcast. He said no. Sorry. (And that, after I was more than half way through the task! )

Edited July 19, 2012 by cursor

[Calm]

You can always keep it for your personal use.

Plus there is nothing wrong with posting parts you want to discuss, just not the whole thing.

[cursor]

I intend to finish it ... as you suggest, for my own use.

[Tacenda]

I contacted John Dehlin, asking for permission to post a full transcript of the Michael Coe podcast. He said no. Sorry. (And that, after I was more than half way through the task! )

That's disappointing to me, an avid listener to his podcasts. Did he give reason for this? Darn.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Tacenda

[Calm]

I would think he would prefer people to come to his own website than go to another's.

[cursor]

When I told him that I intended to make the transcription available here, as a PDF, he wrote, " ..." I thanked him for at least considering the possibility. Of course, I offered to supply him with a copy of the full transcript for his use.

[ edit: removed actual quote from Mr. Dehlin ]

Edited July 20, 2012 by cursor

[cinepro]

When I told him that I intended to make the transcription available here, as a PDF, he wrote, "Those folks are so mean to me. Not too interested in helping out there." I thanked him for at least considering the possibility. Of course, I offered to supply him with a copy of the full transcript for his use.

Just curious, but do you create the transcript using something like "Dragon", or are you typing really fast?

[cursor]

I simply listen, then type (as FAST as I can) ... pausing periodically to catch up and/or review. I cut out a TON of "uh"s and "hmm"s.

[Calm]

When I told him that I intended to make the transcription available here, as a PDF, he wrote, "Those folks are so mean to me. Not too interested in helping out there."

Direct quote, not a paraphrase?

[cursor]

Direct quote, not paraphrased at all.

(But I've now removed that quote, for privacy issues.)

Edited July 20, 2012 by cursor