A Very Refreshing Ensign Article...Cudos To The Church

[Hestia]

Since Monster has nothing to contribute he is out of the thread.

[Defender]

DEFENDER ----- where are you. I had asked some questions that seem to chase you away?????

I have better things to do on a saturday:) You can't deny it is a sin to turn away from the covenants you made in the temple and at baptism. Obviously the church wants to bring these people back, but all I'm saying is it is a sin, a very serious sin, to turn against God. The church wants the apostate to repent and return to the fold just as it wants the porn addict to repent and return. That does not mean apostasy is OK. The problem I have with the Ensign article is it is much more accepting of her husband's apostasy than it would be if he was breaking the word of wisdom or the law of chastity.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Defender

[rpn]

Just because one doesn't rail against something, and declare the person who does ____ it is bad, doesn't mean you are accepting the apostasy. It means you are learning unconditional love, and what agency means, in that what others do of which you disapprove should not change what you do to honor your own covenants.

I happen to think that because the Atonement fills whatever gap exists between objective perfection and the best someone can do, the people most in danger of not being perfect in Christ are those who do most everything right, except for acting like they think they are in charge of everyone else's worthiness and seeing to it that they are punished.

Edited June 24, 2012 by rpn

[ttribe]

I have better things to do on a saturday:) You can't deny it is a sin to turn away from the covenants you made in the temple and at baptism. Obviously the church wants to bring these people back, but all I'm saying is it is a sin, a very serious sin, to turn against God. The church wants the apostate to repent and return to the fold just as it wants the porn addict to repent and return. That does not mean apostasy is OK. The problem I have with the Ensign article is it is much more accepting of her husband's apostasy than it would be if he was breaking the word of wisdom or the law of chastity.

Don't back off now. You explicitly stated that loss of faith is equal to son of perdition. Have you changed your position based on the evidence placed before you?

[DBMormon]

I have better things to do on a saturday:) You can't deny it is a sin to turn away from the covenants you made in the temple and at baptism. Obviously the church wants to bring these people back, but all I'm saying is it is a sin, a very serious sin, to turn against God. The church wants the apostate to repent and return to the fold just as it wants the porn addict to repent and return. That does not mean apostasy is OK. The problem I have with the Ensign article is it is much more accepting of her husband's apostasy than it would be if he was breaking the word of wisdom or the law of chastity.

So it's the worst sin or a bad sin? your story is changing.

Also still waiting for you to show me a general authority who uses the tone and words you did when discussing unbelief? I want to see where they tell an unbeliever they have sinned and they say the sin is the unbelief and not other actions

unbelief a sin?... that depends on a lot. I wouldn't tell anyone that and neither would prophets and apostles... and yet you did.

personally i think you might want to consider an apology to CWALD

so let me get this right.... you have no evidence to support your side but feel it ok to be critical of the ensign article........ ? Is it possible you are in error?

Edited June 24, 2012 by DBMormon

[CASteinman]

My congratulations to the church. I think this is a big first of what I hope is many steps. I particularly appreciated that the article didn't throw the apostate husband under the bus by using desire to sin or being offended as reasons for his disaffection. Surprise, he merely lost his belief.

1. We do not know anything about the Husband's moral status. This was not an article written by "The Church".

2. This is an article written for a believing member who is challenged by inactivity and faithlessness in a spouse. It is intended to support them -- not the faithless unbelievers.

3. This is not an especially new theme in the Ensign. I do not see how this can be surprising.

4. Moreover, I do not think this is necessarily a rare story. A General Authority once told me that in life, the most difficult problems you are likely to face will be problems with a spouse or a child. How you deal with that will be the test of your life. I heard that before 1982.

Edited June 25, 2012 by CASteinman

[CASteinman]

1. I do not accept the premise that the LDS church is the "one and only true church on the face of the earth."

2. I have a problem with the perceived focus on legalism and Pharisaical commandments.

3. The entire premise of the 14 Fundamentals of the Prophet, and the perceived notion of worshipping the church and prophets.

You really should be talking to your Bishop rather than board members -- who might not even be LDS -- or could claim to be anything that they want.

However, there are some standards for being a member of the Church and you might want to investigate whether you adhere to those standards. Here are some minimum standards that seem relevant in this context:

• You should believe the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith.
  
• You should believe that Thomas S. Monson is a prophet of God.
  
• You should agree to live the law of chastity, which prohibits any sexual relationship outside the bonds of a legal marriage between a man and a woman.
  
• You should agree to live the law of tithing.
  
• You should agree to live the Word of Wisdom -- which includes Coffee and Tea -- as taught by the Prophet and the 12 Apostles.
  
• You should agree to live the law of the Sabbath day, including partaking of the sacrament weekly and rendering service to fellow members.
  

In addition, there are standards which pertain to being a Temple Worthy Member to include:

• You must sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys.
  
• You must sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators.
  
• You must sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church.
  
• You must not support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  

I hope you can muster the faith and discipline to achieve full and active membership in the Church and Kingdom of God!

Edited June 25, 2012 by CASteinman

[CASteinman]

This Ensign article written by an anonymous person concerns me.

There are at least two people involved here -- the author and her spouse. Probably children as well. Going through a very difficult family situation. So she may not have leave to reveal her husband's name to the world and may not want her children's friends to be aware of this problem.

Life in Marriage can be a challenge and sometimes it takes a little finesse. I would not hold someone's feet to the fire for trying their best in a difficult situation. Especially if we have faced nothing like that.

[DBMormon]

I too thought the article was good. A message certainly needed by some.

[John Ping Pong]

Who knows- you might even get the stall next to me and DB.

Just when I am thinking you are completely irredeemable, you say something like this that makes me think you are not so bad after all.

A good post, all around, selek1.