Temple Work For Still Borns?

[inquiringmind]

What Temple work can be done for still borns?

Would I be correct in assuming that they can't be baptized, but they should be sealed to their parents?

[altersteve]

I'm unaware of any examples of temple work done for infants at all, stillborn or otherwise. Besides, usual Church policy is that we submit information about our ancestors, not our descendents, but since it's impossible (for obvious reasons) for any of a person's ancestors to have died in infancy, I'm not sure how that would work. I'm confident that God has that all worked out, though.

Also, if the baby was born to parents who were already both members of the Church and sealed to one another, then he or she would be "born into the covenant" (sealed to his or her parents already).

Edited May 24, 2012 by altersteve

[thesometimesaint]

Baptism is not necessary for children who died before the age of eight. If the parents were already Sealed there is no need for a Temple work as the child would have been born under the covenant.

[Buzzard]

Our son passed away at 22, but was listed on his church record as non-accountable, since he was profoundly handicapped. We recieved contradictory guidance as to doing his temple work, so one day at the temple asked to speak to a member of the temple presidency about it. After hearing of our situation, his words were that performing proxy work for those for whom no baptism was required, like our son, would be mockery of the promises God has made of those who do not need baptism. He had been born in the covenant, and that also negated the need for a proxy endowment. That kind of settled it for us.

[mfbukowski]

Actually the policy is that if a child took a breath- lived for a few minutes, they can be sealed to their parents. But of course that may be hard to determine and many such babies may be listed as "still born" even if in fact they lived an hour or two.

Of course we leave it up to the Lord to take care of such cases- but yes, some listed as stillborn could be sealed. In the sealing they are sealed as Mister (Last name) since in most cases we do not have a first name for them.

Edit: This would be of course in the case of babies who were not born in the covenant- for BIC babies sealing is irrelevant as has been said

Perhaps someone who has not worked in the temple might not realize this, but there are errors in ordinances all the time in the temple- we do our best but we are all human. If we give it our best effort as directed by the spirit, that is all that is required and the atonement makes up the difference. Even in cases where known errors are made, for example with patrons saying the wrong words, we are now instructed to correct the person only once, and then leave it up to the Lord. The goal is for the patron to have a spiritual experience, and leave the rest up to the Lord. These are not magic incantations or spells out of Harry Potter. This is the our loving father we speak to, he who knows our faults better than we know them ourselves. He cares no more about our little mistakes than you would care about your two-year-old mispronouncing a word when you know perfectly well what her intentions are.

Edited May 24, 2012 by mfbukowski

[The Nehor]

What Temple work can be done for still borns?

Would I be correct in assuming that they can't be baptized, but they should be sealed to their parents?

No temple work is done. Stillborn children do not appear on the records of the Church and no Temple Work is done including sealings.

[Duncan]

My dad had a sister who lived for a few hours and thenshe died. Her parents weren't members but we did the work for them but were wondering if she would need to be sealed to them? baptism is out but just the sealing

[Duncan]

No temple work is done. Stillborn children do not appear on the records of the Church and no Temple Work is done including sealings.

maybe this is a better question to what I wrote! but why wouldn't still born children need to be sealed to their parents? even if only a death certificate is generated, God knows who was born to whom and the family would remember, so why wouldn't they need to be sealed?

[thesometimesaint]

Duncan:

If the Parents were already Sealed there is no need as any children would already be born in the covenant.

[The Nehor]

maybe this is a better question to what I wrote! but why wouldn't still born children need to be sealed to their parents? even if only a death certificate is generated, God knows who was born to whom and the family would remember, so why wouldn't they need to be sealed?

If they were born in the covenant and IF it is required it is taken care of. If the parents aren't sealed there is no procedure for it to be done. Why? I don't know. Perhaps the atonement covers it without the ordinance? Maybe in the Millenium when you raise the child it is taken care of? No idea.

[Calm]

For specifics, it is always good to go to the source: https://help.familysearch.org/kb/UserGuide/en/policy/r_wws_policy_children_die_young.html

Quote:

Some ordinances are not needed for children who died before age 8, who were born in the covenant, or who were stillborn.

Children who died before age eight need only a sealing to parents (if they were not born in the covenant). No baptism or endowment is needed.

Children born in the covenant do not need to be sealed to parents. A child is born in the covenant if he or she is born after his or her mother has been sealed to a husband in a temple, regardless of who his or her father is or whether the sealing is canceled later.

Note: If the mother or the man to whom she is sealed is excommunicated before the child’s birth, the child is not born in the covenant.

Stillborn children (children who die before birth) do not need temple ordinances.

Important: In some countries, children who died shortly after birth were listed in vital records as stillborn. Countries that have sometimes listed live births as stillborn include Austria, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, German states (Baden, Bavaria, Germany, Hesse-Darmstadt, Prussia, Saxony, Thuringia, Württemberg), Denmark, Finland, France, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Sweden, and Switzerland. Children listed as stillborn on records from these countries may be sealed to their parents.

The new FamilySearch website uses information in a person’s record to determine whether ordinances are needed. Use these guidelines to help the Web site accurately make this determination:

Situation What You Should Do What the New FamilySearch Website Does

A child died before age 8. Enter the child’s birth and death information in the appropriate fields.

Note: If you know that a child died before age 8 but do not know the exact death date, please enter an estimated date. Without a death date, the system assumes the child needs ordinances.

The website calculates the amount of time between the birth and death. It then indicates the ordinances are not needed.

If you later find out that the child died after age 8, correct the birth or death date. The website then allows the ordinances to be performed.

A child was born in the covenant. Do nothing. The website uses Church membership records to determine whether a child was born in the covenant.

An infant was stillborn. Choose the Stillborn option in the Birth date field and Death date field. The website evaluates the place information. If the child was born in a country where a child recorded as stillborn may have actually died shortly after birth, the website allows the sealing-to-parent ordinance in case the child was born alive.

If the child was not born in one of these countries, the Web site lists the ordinances as “Not needed.”

Edited May 24, 2012 by calmoriah

[Calm]

maybe this is a better question to what I wrote! but why wouldn't still born children need to be sealed to their parents? even if only a death certificate is generated, God knows who was born to whom and the family would remember, so why wouldn't they need to be sealed?

Stillborn children are considered never to have been living in the sense of being a living, breathing not attached physically to the mother. Some are not even fully formed as late term miscarriages result in what most would call stillborns, it is just not children who die shortly before or during birth.

I don't know if the assumption is that the spirit entered and left without permanently connecting with the body because there was something wrong with it or simply in these cases God gives another chance at life, but the assumption I have heard is the work will be done in connection with the bodies they receive when they are successfully born even if they only manage to take one breath. Another assumption is the child will be treated as if it was born live. No revelation has been given yet, so no temple work has been assigned to stillborns at this time.

Edited May 26, 2012 by calmoriah

[Duncan]

Stillborn children are considered never to have been living in the sense of being a living, breathing not attached physically to the mother. Some are not even fully formed as late term miscarriages result in what most would call stillborns, it is just not children who die shortly before or during.

I don't know if the assumption is that the spirit entered and left without permanently connecting with the body because there was something wrong with it or simply in these cases God gives another chance at life, but the assumption I have heard is the work will be done in connection with the bodies they receive when they are successfully born even if they only manage to take one breath.

I was just wondering because my "aunt" I guess! wasn't born under the covenant as her parents weren't members and so I am wondering if we need to seal her to her parents

[Calm]

Ensign article: http://www.lds.org/ensign/2006/02/our-stillborn-baby

[poulsenll]

Thanks Caloriah

The Church spends money and volunteer hours to provide and maintain it's webwsites. If we simply ignore them and depend on speculation on bulletin boards, we negate the wonderful information the Church has made available.

Larry P

[mfbukowski]

My dad had a sister who lived for a few hours and thenshe died. Her parents weren't members but we did the work for them but were wondering if she would need to be sealed to them? baptism is out but just the sealing

"Stillborn" does not equal "lived for a few hours"

[Calm]

I was just wondering because my "aunt" I guess! wasn't born under the covenant as her parents weren't members and so I am wondering if we need to seal her to her parents

If stillborn in the US, no. But if this concerns members of the family, just tell them that at this time there is no revelation, but once we are told what happens to the child (which I speculate will be during the millennium on a case by case basis where some will be raised by their righteous mothers and others never really had a spirit associated with them due to physical defect) then such work as is necessary will be done. It will not stand in the way of progression, etc., nor will a child be 'lost' to a righteous family through the lack of a current sealing if that is where the child belongs.

If, as mfb, says the child survived birth if only for a breath (I would assume movement counts as well) then it is not stillborn. Stillborn is "still" or dead at birth, no matter how short a time, such as having died during labour immediately prior to birth.

Edited May 24, 2012 by calmoriah

[mfbukowski]

I was just wondering because my "aunt" I guess! wasn't born under the covenant as her parents weren't members and so I am wondering if we need to seal her to her parents

If she was not stillborn- she needs to be sealed - see calmoriah's post

[Calm]

Thanks Caloriah

The Church spends money and volunteer hours to provide and maintain it's webwsites. If we simply ignore them and depend on speculation on bulletin boards, we negate the wonderful information the Church has made available.

Larry P

I always find with genealogy and temple work, it is wise to check the handbook due to the errors that creep in if one studies how to do it on one's own or from an self taught teacher plus procedures change from time to time.

[Saints Alive]

Actually the policy is that if a child took a breath- lived for a few minutes, they can be sealed to their parents. But of course that may be hard to determine and many such babies may be listed as "still born" even if in fact they lived an hour or two.

Of course we leave it up to the Lord to take care of such cases- but yes, some listed as stillborn could be sealed. In the sealing they are sealed as Mister (Last name) since in most cases we do not have a first name for them.

Edit: This would be of course in the case of babies who were not born in the covenant- for BIC babies sealing is irrelevant as has been said

Perhaps someone who has not worked in the temple might not realize this, but there are errors in ordinances all the time in the temple- we do our best but we are all human. If we give it our best effort as directed by the spirit, that is all that is required and the atonement makes up the difference. Even in cases where known errors are made, for example with patrons saying the wrong words, we are now instructed to correct the person only once, and then leave it up to the Lord. The goal is for the patron to have a spiritual experience, and leave the rest up to the Lord. These are not magic incantations or spells out of Harry Potter. This is the our loving father we speak to, he who knows our faults better than we know them ourselves. He cares no more about our little mistakes than you would care about your two-year-old mispronouncing a word when you know perfectly well what her intentions are.

CFR on the "take a breath" rule. I've never heard that. Stillborn children, per the CHI, may be recorded on the families records but no sealings or proxy work is done

[KevinG]

The above information reflects our experience. We were told that putting the babies names on our personal family records would be an appropriate way to memorialize them. Ours were conceived and carried "in the covenant" so no further ordinance work was required.

[mfbukowski]

CFR on the "take a breath" rule. I've never heard that. Stillborn children, per the CHI, may be recorded on the families records but no sealings or proxy work is done

post 11

[Duncan]

If stillborn in the US, no. But if this concerns members of the family, just tell them that at this time there is no revelation, but once we are told what happens to the child (which I speculate will be during the millennium on a case by case basis where some will be raised by their righteous mothers and others never really had a spirit associated with them due to physical defect) then such work as is necessary will be done. It will not stand in the way of progression, etc., nor will a child be 'lost' to a righteous family through the lack of a current sealing if that is where the child belongs.

If, as mfb, says the child survived birth if only for a breath (I would assume movement counts as well) then it is not stillborn. Stillborn is "still" or dead at birth, no matter how short a time, such as having died during labour immediately prior to birth.

she was born in 1930? in Germany and none of the family were members so she wasn't born under the covenant and we have had the work done for her parents but we don't know if we should seal her to them as she didn't live very long after birth-but now I am thinking we probably should just seal her

[CASteinman]

I am grateful for this thread.

[Calm]

she was born in 1930? in Germany and none of the family were members so she wasn't born under the covenant and we have had the work done for her parents but we don't know if we should seal her to them as she didn't live very long after birth-but now I am thinking we probably should just seal her

Again, if she was alive at her birth, even if she lived for just a short time, she should be sealed. Her records may say "stillborn" (if they say that) because of the policy of the German state she was born in. Just enter the info in family search and it will walk you through it.