Fair In The News

[why me]

There was an interesting piece from the AP about Romney and FAIR. Our own Scott Gorden was highlighted in the piece. FAIR has now started MormonVoices but what else should it now be doing to defend the LDS church during this time of public inquiry about the LDS church? There was also mentioned in the article about the problems of church history and the role of FAIR in helping LDS parents to answer questions from their children.

It seems that FAIR may have a lot of work to do in the near future. Are there enough apologists to handle the amount of work?

I put this in the General Discussion and not In the News section because I think that it is an important topic for discussion.

http://wabcradio.com...0db9bc82d73be24

Edited May 4, 2012 by why me

[DWhitmer]

It seems that FAIR may have a lot of work to do in the near future. Are there enough apologists to handle the amount of work?

"For such a time as these." IMO, FAIR, Sunstone, etc. should not exist, the LDS church should have been transparent long ago, like most churches are with their finances and history.

[Buzzard]

"For such a time as these." IMO, FAIR, Sunstone, etc. should not exist, the LDS church should have been transparent long ago, like most churches are with their finances and history.

The church has stated their fourfold mission. Explaining the past wasn't on that list. Apologetics is interesting, but the gospel is true with or without FAIR. I'm glad they are there, but don't consider them to be central to the mission of the church.

[Ron Beron]

"For such a time as these." IMO, FAIR, Sunstone, etc. should not exist, the LDS church should have been transparent long ago, like most churches are with their finances and history.

Transparent? Like the Catholics, evangelical churches, etc.? They exist because the membership is not a "lock-step" group, but one that possesses inquisitive minds.

[Maidservant]

The Church is only a church in terms of its interface with the world. But what it really is, is a priesthood order, a covenant and the gathering of Israel. It is the gate where we start from on our journey. Ask the question why Jesus Christ would make the choices he makes in his leadership of his own covenant, instead of approaching with concepts and terminology from the world.

[why me]

"For such a time as these." IMO, FAIR, Sunstone, etc. should not exist, the LDS church should have been transparent long ago, like most churches are with their finances and history.

I don't think that it would have mattered very much. The problem would be the same but the conversation would be different. For example, instead of claiming that the church hides its history the claim would be on the church's interpretation of the history. Sunstone and Dialogue would still exist as members and former members would be debating interpretations of history. What is needed are lds scholars writing about lds history with no rocks left unturned.

For example, the new Joseph Smith movie should have had polygamy, his temper management problem, his reaching for the 6 shooter etc. This is the problem.

The catholic church to my knowledge has not published its official history either.

[why me]

The Church is only a church in terms of its interface with the world. But what it really is, is a priesthood order, a covenant and the gathering of Israel. It is the gate where we start from on our journey. Ask the question why Jesus Christ would make the choices he makes in his leadership of his own covenant, instead of approaching with concepts and terminology from the world.

But according to the article FAIR seems to playing catch up with the problems that members are bringing to the table. And I am not sure that it can handle it. They need to upgrade their website and make it more people friendly. The catholic apologetic site is a good example of a successful website. Compared to FAIR it shines bright rays of sunlight for catholics interested in finding answers about their faith. But their noncatholic religion section of their discussion forum is terrible.

[Calm]

why me, any suggestions for improvement would be welcome if you contacted someone at FAIR

http://www.fairlds.org/contact.php

[zerinus]

"For such a time as these." IMO, FAIR, Sunstone, etc. should not exist, the LDS church should have been transparent long ago, like most churches are with their finances and history.

What the Church does or does not do is the Church's business. The Church thinks it knows how best to look after its own interests, and I don't think they need any advice from you about how to do that. If you have any questions about what the Church does or believes in, you are welcome to bring it here so it can be discussed. But if your aim is to give advice to the Church, I don't think that anybody will be interested, including the Church.

[volgadon]

the LDS church should have been transparent long ago, like most churches are with their... history.

So transparent that someone like Bob Betts couldn't (or wouldn't) name any influential figures in the early history of the evangelical movement when I asked him to do so.

[why me]

why me, any suggestions for improvement would be welcome if you contacted someone at FAIR

http://www.fairlds.org/contact.php

They just need to check the catholic site and begin their upgrade. However, the catholic site is often collecting donations. And that helps. Also, there are hundred of milliions of catholics while only 14 million mormons.

But the FAIR site is a little boring and colorless. They need to find themselves some experts in web design.

[sjdawg]

I sometimes think FAIR does just as much to harm the LDS church as it does to help it.

[Calm]

So are you saying it doesn't bother you enough so that you will tell them it bothers you and instead you are just throwing out a casual remark about it here? Since it will take time and money for a purely volunteer group who already has tons of projects on their to do list and not enough time or money to do them all, it is important to know how important someone feels their criticism is.

If you know any designers who would like to donate their work, please send them our way.

Edited May 4, 2012 by calmoriah

[Calm]

I sometimes think FAIR does just as much to harm the LDS church as it does to help it.

So we keep hearing, mostly from critics who should be pleased about it if so. One FAIR member says donations from that part of the demographic would be rolling in if they were that convinced of our ability to drive faithful members away.

Feedback from those who actually come to us to discuss or ask for help tends to tell us something different though and that is pretty much the best measurement we have available to judge our work at this time.

[zerinus]

It seems that FAIR may have a lot of work to do in the near future. Are there enough apologists to handle the amount of work?

I put this in the General Discussion and not In the News section because I think that it is an important topic for discussion.

http://wabcradio.com...0db9bc82d73be24

Thank you, that was an interesting article. I think that most people becoming interested in the LDS Church as a result of the Romney affair are likely to turn to the Church's official website to find out more about it than to FAIR. Ultimately, the best advocates of Mormonism will be the Mormons themselves, educating their friends, neighbours, and work colleagues; and the best qualification they can have for the job will be the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[why me]

So are you saying it doesn't bother you enough so that you will tell them it bothers you and instead you are just throwing out a casual remark about it here? Since it will take time and money for a purely volunteer group who already has tons of projects on their to do list and not enough time or money to do them all, it is important to know how important someone feels their criticism is.

If you know any designers who would like to donate their work, please send them our way.

There are FAIR members on this forum, including Scott Gordon. The best way to help them is to post ideas on in this thread. I just don't think that FAIR is up to the task at this moment. Revamping its website will take time but since more and more members are looking for information, a good site is important. At least give the site some color.

[wenglund]

I sometimes think FAIR does just as much to harm the LDS church as it does to help it.

Ironically, I think these kinds of accusation hurt more than they help.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[why me]

Thank you, that was an interesting article. I think that most people becoming interested in the LDS Church as a result of the Romney affair are likely to turn to the Church's official website to find out more about it than to FAIR. Ultimately, the best advocates of Mormonism will be the Mormons themselves, educating their friends, neighbours, and work colleagues; and the best qualification they can have for the job will be the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is probably true. But the church website would also need to upgrade itself and handle questions that may come along about church history and doctrine. The article stresses that members are coming to FAIR for answers. Perhaps one reason for this is because they are not finding answers on the church website.

[why me]

I sometimes think FAIR does just as much to harm the LDS church as it does to help it.

I don't think that this is true. I know that FAIR helped me years ago. But it is not very easy to find specific information on FAIR in a short time.

[wenglund]

This is probably true. But the church website would also need to upgrade itself and handle questions that may come along about church history and doctrine. The article stresses that members are coming to FAIR for answers. Perhaps one reason for this is because they are not finding answers on the church website.

Perhaps those members are asking the wrong questions and looking for the wrong answers.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[why me]

Here are some ideas for FAIR:

Add color to the website.

Create sections for links to specific information that are noticeable.

Add videos that can help people with their questions on their home page.

Here is a good example of a colorful and easy site to navigate:

http://www.catholic.com/

[why me]

Perhaps those members are asking the wrong questions and looking for the wrong answers.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I am only going by the article and what Scott said.

"It's forced a lot of members of the church to examine their beliefs and how they talk with their kids," said FAIR's president, Scott Gordon.

FAIR needs to help out in this area and so does the church website.

Edited May 4, 2012 by why me

[zerinus]

This is probably true. But the church website would also need to upgrade itself and handle questions that may come along about church history and doctrine. The article stresses that members are coming to FAIR for answers. Perhaps one reason for this is because they are not finding answers on the church website.

Those are "members" . I think that non-members becoming interested in the Church for the first time will be interested in other questions.

[Mark Beesley]

I sometimes think FAIR does just as much to harm the LDS church as it does to help it.

Rather than just blowing you off, I'd like to know specifcally why you think that.

Thanks.

[Calm]

There are FAIR members on this forum, including Scott Gordon. The best way to help them is to post ideas on in this thread. I just don't think that FAIR is up to the task at this moment. Revamping its website will take time but since more and more members are looking for information, a good site is important. At least give the site some color.

But I highly doubt that the vast majority of FAIR members spend time reading all the threads and it is highly unlikely those who are involved in the website do as they don't even have enough time to do everything they are trying to do for FAIR. Most FAIR members have stated they spend little or no time here. Scott has way too much on his plate to spend much time here. The best way to help them is to talk directly to them rather than just assume they are reading.

I am a rare exception and while I am generally happy to pass on notices to one group from the other (such as the FAIR conference announcement), if it is going to be an involved conversation I'd prefer people go the direct route. I am not going to tell Scott about this thread unless I see something noteworthy, so far I've just heard the site is blah. I find communication is less effective when there is a middleman.

Edited May 4, 2012 by calmoriah