When Were Bom Land Prophecies Fulfilled?

[volgadon]

Your reputation precedes you. Now you understand why I take your CFR's with a grain of salt. But hey, I don't come here to obfuscate.

As I am obviously narcissistic and since there is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about, please tell me more about my notorious reputation.

[DWhitmer]

It is the kettle in the proverb...my notorious reputation.

So true, fixed that.

On to yet another fulfilled land prophecy long ignored by Mesoapologists and most Mormons (no offense):

A New Jerusalem to be built on ancient BoM land:

And

they shall assist my people the remnant of Jacob

, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may

build a city which shall be called the New Jerusalem

. (3 Nephi 21:23)

What is overlooked is both the location and the timing:

The location must be ancient BoM land.

For it is wisdom in the Father that they should be established in this land, and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father, (3 Nephi 21:4)

The timing must be before the BoM comes forth.

22 But if they (Gentiles) will repent and hearken unto my words, and harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them,* and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among this the remnant of Jacob (Indians), unto whom I have given this land for their inheritance;

23 And they (Gentiles) shall assist my people, the remnant of Jacob (Indians), and also as many of the house of Israel (Jews) as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem..

24 And then shall they (Gentiles) assist my people (Indians) that they may be gathered in, who are scattered upon all the face of the land, in unto the New Jerusalem.

25 And then shall the power of heaven come down among them; and I also will be in the midst.

26 And then shall the work of the Father commence at that day, even when this gospel shall be preached among the remnant of this people. Verily I say unto you, at that day shall the work of the Father commence among all the dispersed of my people, yea, even the tribes which have been lost, which the Father hath led away out of Jerusalem. (3 Nephi 21)

Edited May 4, 2012 by DWhitmer

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

This topic has been ignored by most geography enthusiasts. Primarily the BoM is a spiritual book to serve spiritual purposes. Therefore, her spiritual promises and fulfilled prophecies should receive equal if not preferential treatment. Use verse or GA writings.

Don't know we have not had thousands of years as our counterparts have. Also if you read the BoM the "geography" of the entire land changed in 34AD.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

What did you say pot?

Getting back to the topic, the splitting of the land prophecy was given as a sign, thus, it would be somewhere highly visible, not overrun by jungle:

What are you angry at D?

[Duncan]

And lets not forget the James T Kirk and Captain Packard. And Celine Deon. And me. Well, I invade it once/week to get gas and milk. And there was that two year prolonged occupation in the 80's when I wondered around California with a threatening name tag.

Celine Dion! yikes, I think you're thinking of Shania Twain!! wow wow weewah!

[The Nehor]

But hey, I don't come here to obfuscate.

CFR

[volgadon]

I posted the CFR's on the Word of Wisdom. Let me know your thoughts.

My thoughts? Most of your references were irrelevant and some were downright dishonest. All in all, fits the tendentious pattern you've been displaying.

[zerinus]

When Were Bom Land Prophecies Fulfilled?

This topic has been ignored by most geography enthusiasts. Primarily the BoM is a spiritual book to serve spiritual purposes. Therefore, her spiritual promises and fulfilled prophecies should receive equal if not preferential treatment. Use verse or GA writings.

Hi, can you summarise for me as clearly, concisely, and dispassionately as possible exactly what are the questions you are asking regarding the “BOM land prophecies” or their “fulfilment,” and what your personal beliefs are regarding them, and why you (presumably) disagree with the LDS Church’s position regarding them? I have tried to read through your posts in this thread, but haven’t been able to get a handle on this. Is it to do with there being “no kings on the land,” and if so, what is your problem with that? Is it to do with “BoM lands cannot have any volcanoes,” and if so on what basis, and what do you consider the LDS position on that to be? Is it to do with America being “choice above all other lands,” and if so what is your problem with that? Is it to do with the land being “found in broken fragments . . .” and if so what problem do you have with that?

I realize that other peoples’ responses haven’t been helpful towards that clarification, but I really like to know what questions you are asking, and on what basis, and for what reason, so I can see if I can try and answer them.

[ERayR]

Unfortunately the land prophecies exclude lands with either a Gentile King or Queen so Canada won't work.

And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the Gentiles and there shall be

no kings upon the land

who shall raise up unto the Gentiles. (2 Nephi 10:11)

With the advent if king Obama this one has fallen

[Freedom]

Patrick Stewart is English, not Canadian.

I don't want to make you look foolish but he is Canadian. According to the canadian ego, one is considered to be Canadian according to the following criteria:

1) you are famous in the U.S.

2) you once lived in Canada or

3) you at some time had a relative or friend or acquaintanceship who lived in Canada

4) you have heard of 'this hour has 22 minutes'

5) you wish celine deon was american

6) you were the captain of the USS Enterprise

Mr Steward qualifies in all 6 categories. He is, therefore, Canadian.

[Freedom]

Celine Dion! yikes, I think you're thinking of Shania Twain!! wow wow weewah!

Yes, Shania is nice. I met her once in passing, she was very polite and unassuming. She had to walk through a room I was using which was beside a sound studio. She kept apologizing even though we were the interlopers. And of course, this is even more proof that the Book of Mormon is true.

[wenglund]

But hey, I don't come here to obfuscate.

I see that you have a sense of humor as well. That was pretty funny.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[inquiringmind]

The time period that applies to the coming forth of the BoM, which rules out both Canada and Mexico and most models including the "hemispheric" viewpoint to justify a unilateral "Zion" for all of N. and S. America, and modelers such as Meldrum, May, Olive, Coon, Aston, and most Mesoapologists.

Why would it be the time period of the coming forth of the BOM?

And if that is the time period, would the lands of central and South America be ruled out?

[poulsenll]

Let's give DWhitmer an A for persistence but he still gets an F for history and geography.

From Wikipedia

Agustín de Iturbide immediately proclaimed himself emperor of the First Mexican Empire. A revolt against him in 1823 established the United Mexican States. In 1824, a Republican Constitution was drafted and Guadalupe Victoria became the first president of the newly born country

exico as a country has been a republic since then. Although there were attempts to conquer Mexico and establish an emperor, this attempt was defeated. At the time of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon Mexico had an elected president and was in no way ruled by a King.

By 1830 essentially all of the countries south of Mexico had established there independence.

Larry P

Edited May 5, 2012 by poulsenll

[Tepui]

Let's give DWhitmer an A for persistence but he still gets an F for history and geography.

From Wikipedia

exico as a country has been a republic since then. Although there were attempts to conquer Mexico and establish an emperor, this attempt was defeated. At the time of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon Mexico had an elected president and was in no way ruled by a King.

By 1830 essentially all of the countries south of Mexico had established there independence.

Larry P

Hardly. If you had read John Lloyd Stephens book Incidents of Travel in Central America, Chiapas, and Yucatan (New York: Harper and Brothers, 1841), as Mesoamericanites claim Joseph Smith did and learned Book of Mormon geography because of it, you would have discovered the countries of Central America, including Guatemala, where Dr. Sorenson places:

"The promised land in which the Nephites’ history played out was on the order of five hundred miles long and over two hundred miles wide, according to Mormon’s mental map.”

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=101&chapid=1139

....obtained their independence from Mexico and were fighting among themselves. Stephens was quite clear on this. It was the reason President Martin Van Buren, (the same who ignored the Prophet Joseph Smith's pleas for Federal Assistance against the ochlocracy of the State of Missouri, because he didn't want to lose the vote of that State), appointed Stephens as US Ambassador to Central America to find out what the heck was going on down there. Those countries never fought against any mother Gentiles. They broke from Mexico after Mexico gained its independence from Spain.

And I beheld that their mother Gentiles were gathered together upon the waters, and upon the land also, to battle against them. 1 Nephi 13:17

I learned this from reading an article at the Maxwell Institute called "The Light is Better Over Here" published in 2007 and written by one called Lawrence L. Poulsen.

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=19&num=2&id=655&cat_id=475 (Refer to Footnote #1.)

Would you happen to know who that is? Is he a relative?

[Tepui]

From the same article written by one called Lawerence L. Poulsen, it states the Mesoamericanites were arguing among themselves about whether the Nephites were in the Chiapas Highlands or the Maya Lowlands of Guatemala:

Over twenty years ago, Sorenson carefully documented the textual, geographical, and anthropological data that supported his conclusion that the Nephite culture was located in the Chiapas highlands and not in the Maya lowlands.

Since then, Norman and others have discounted his conclusions and continued attempting to equate the Nephites with the Maya in the lowlands. They often use the review of John Lloyd Stephens's discovery and description of the Maya ruins in Guatemala and eastern Mexico published in the

Times and Seasons

as support for this conclusion.

They mistakenly attribute this review to Joseph Smith, although it is unlikely that he wrote it

, because he was in hiding, as reported in the same issue. John Taylor probably wrote it

.

http://maxwellinstit...19&num=2&id=655

That was in 2007. Then those ill-informed Heartlanders, appeared on the scene. And then what can we read after 2008?

One of the issues that swirls around discussions of Book of Mormon geography is the rightful place the editorials in the 1842 Times and Seasons must take. The story of the editorials begins with Joseph's receipt of John Lloyd Stephens and Frederick Catherwood's Incidents of Travel in Central America, Chaipas, and Yucatan, published in 1841. In early 1842, the Times and Seasons published several enthusiastic articles that drew attention to the discoveries of Stephens and Catherwood in Central America and compared them favorably with the Book of Mormon. ….

Since these articles were not specifically signed by Joseph Smith, some have questioned whether the Prophet wrote them himself, or if someone else wrote them, with or without his approval.

Results showed that the writing styles of Joseph Smith, John Taylor, and Wilford Woodruff were clearly distinguishable. Writings by Smith, "Editor," and "Unsigned" were not distinctively different,

suggesting that all of these were likely written by Joseph Smith

.

http://maxwellinstit...30&num=6&id=923

2007: When it comes to arguing BoM Lands within Mesoamerica, John Taylor wrote the articles.

After 2008: When it comes to arguing BoM Lands between Mesoamerica and North America, well, it's no longer John Taylor.

Wordprint analysis done by F.A.R.M.S (a non-biased independent study-of course )claim the same articles were actually written by the Prophet Joseph Smith. :crazy:

So much for the Chiapas Highlands and Maya Lowlands geography models. That's passé. There's a new kid in town to kick around.

(All contradictory quotes from the Maxwell Institute.)

Have a nice weekend, everybody.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Tepui