robuchan Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Is the following statement accepted by LDS apologists?Even though Emma Smith knew Joseph practiced polygamy and introduced it as a doctrine of God, she lied about this and denied it publicly.If it is accepted by LDS apologists, what does this do for Emma's other public statements supporting Joseph, such as her quotes on the BOM translation? Also, does this provide a precedent that other insiders involved in restoration events might have lied about them? Edited April 19, 2012 by robuchan
Log Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Well, obviously, anyone who lies even once should have all of their statements on all topics disregarded eternally. Lying liars lie, that's what they do.Have you ever lied? Edited April 19, 2012 by Log 3
Calm Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 I think it is always important to consider how much personal investment someone has in demonstrating something. All this means though is we need to consider multiple sources for support. If we have only one source of support, then it should be accepted with caution.Standard historical analysis protocol, I suspect.
thesometimesaint Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 I think Emma was really torn by polygamy. She loved her husband, and believed in the Restoration, but had a very difficult time accepting polygamy. It went against her protestant western background.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Is the following statement accepted by LDS apologists?Even though Emma Smith knew Joseph practiced polygamy and introduced it as a doctrine of God, she lied about this and denied it publicly.If it is accepted by LDS apologists, what does this do for Emma's other public statements supporting Joseph, such as her quotes on the BOM translation? Also, does this provide a precedent that other insiders involved in restoration events might have lied about them?She had been through enough...her slavation is assured. At the time they were still killing Mormons and using that for an excuse, Parley P Pratt for one. She was the only woman I know of mentioned in Latter-day Scripture. She was a great woman and i do not begrude her statements.
phaedrus ut Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 I think Brigham Young said it best in his General Conference address"To my certain knowledge, Emma Smith is one of the damnedest liars I know of on this earth; yet there is no good thing I would refuse to do for her, if she would only be a righteous woman; but she will continue in her wickedness. Not six months before the death of Joseph, he called his wife Emma into a secret council, and there he told her the truth, and called upon her to deny it if she could. He told her that the judgments of God would come upon her forthwith if she did not repent. He told her of the time she undertook to poison him, and he told her that she was a child of hell, and literally the most wicked woman on this earth, that there was not one more wicked than she. He told here where she got the poison, and how she put it in a cup of coffee; said he 'You got that poison from so and so, and I drank it, but you could not kill me.' When it entered his stomach he went to the door and threw it off. he spoke to her in that council in a very severe manner, and she never said one word in reply. I have witnesses of this scene all around, who can testify that I am now telling the truth. Twice she undertook to kill him"My guess is that she wasn't actually trying to kill him she was just trying to break Joseph of his coffee habit. Phaedrus
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 I think Brigham Young said it best in his General Conference addressMy guess is that she wasn't actually trying to kill him she was just trying to break Joseph of his coffee habit.PhaedrusHaving read the quote and comments...should there be a smiley face somewhere in there. BY lived in a closed and protected community, Emma did not. Just as Abraham did the same when in a hostile land.
guitarist Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 I think Brigham Young said it best in his General Conference addressMy guess is that she wasn't actually trying to kill him she was just trying to break Joseph of his coffee habit.PhaedrusInteresting, I've never heard of this one before... When was this GC address? I'd like to see some sources to read about it some more, if you have some.
phaedrus ut Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Interesting, I've never heard of this one before... When was this GC address? I'd like to see some sources to read about it some more, if you have some.Here is the link to the FAIR page discussing it.
Jaybear Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Having read the quote and comments...should there be a smiley face somewhere in there. BY lived in a closed and protected community, Emma did not. Just as Abraham did the same when in a hostile land.What do you mean? Are you suggesting Brigham Young was just joking?
changed Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 ... Abraham did the same when in a hostile land...I was thinking the same thing. Are there certain situations in which it is permissible to lie? There are certainly cases where it is best to remain quiet, or to reveal only partial truths, or to talk in parables so that only a select few can understand what you are really saying...
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 What do you mean? Are you suggesting Brigham Young was just joking?I am suggesting when surrounding only by those of one faith or society, all men are given to hyperboyle.
thesometimesaint Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Changed:Permissable but not recommended.In an absolutist world is lying by ommission not still be a lie?In an absolutist world would lying by obfuscation not still be a lie? Edited April 19, 2012 by thesometimesaint
cinepro Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 I think Emma was really torn by polygamy. She loved her husband, and believed in the Restoration, but had a very difficult time accepting polygamy. It went against her protestant western background.You don't have to be a western protestant to not want your husband to marry other women.
Pahoran Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Is the following statement accepted by LDS apologists?Even though Emma Smith knew Joseph practiced polygamy and introduced it as a doctrine of God, she lied about this and denied it publicly.If it is accepted by LDS apologists, what does this do for Emma's other public statements supporting Joseph, such as her quotes on the BOM translation? Also, does this provide a precedent that other insiders involved in restoration events might have lied about them?What's the source of the statement?Regards,Pahoran
altersteve Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 You don't have to be a western protestant to not want your husband to marry other women.This made me laugh. Thank you LOL
changed Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 Changed:Permissable but not recommended.In an absolutist world is lying by ommission not still be a lie?In an absolutist world would lying by obfuscation not still be a lie?it seems we don't live in an absolutist world... in any event, Jesus taught in parables...(New Testament | Mark 4:11 - 12)11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand
noel00 Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) When viewing the list of Smith's wives listed by Compton, I am am amazed how many did not have children to Smith, yet later when Smith died and they were given to BY and Kimbell they had several children. Any reason there were not more Joseph Smith offspring? Edited April 20, 2012 by noel00
Alan Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 I've said this before and I'll say it again. Emma was telling the truth. Joseph had no wife but her. Simple.
shalamabobbi Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 I think Brigham Young said it best in his General Conference addressMy guess is that she wasn't actually trying to kill him she was just trying to break Joseph of his coffee habit.PhaedrusMaybe it had to do with his being rejected for a levirate marriage..
Alan Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 When viewing the list of Smith's wives listed by Compton, I am am amazed how many did not have children to Smith, yet later when Smith died and they were given to BY and Kimbell they had several children. Any reason there were not more Joseph Smith offspring?Because they were not his wives as we understand it, and he had no sexual relations with them.
Jaybear Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) I am suggesting when surrounding only by those of one faith or society, all men are given to hyperboyle.So then you don't believe that it was literally true that Emma was the most wicked woman on earth. He told her of the time she undertook to poison him, and he told her that she was a child of hell, and literally the most wicked woman on this earth, that there was not one more wicked than she.I get the impression that Young, who was actually present when Smith made the comments, did not view the statements as hyperbole. Edited April 20, 2012 by Jaybear
thesometimesaint Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 cinepro:True, but other cultures allow(ed) for polygamy even if an individual woman doesn't like it. Emma was every bit a product of her environment that we are of ours.
thesometimesaint Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 changed:I think Jesus deals with people the way they are, while trying to teach better way.
TAO Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 Well, obviously, anyone who lies even once should have all of their statements on all topics disregarded eternally. Lying liars lie, that's what they do.Have you ever lied?I had to log in to give you a + on this one lol XD.
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