Emma Denying Polygamy

[Calm]

The term "spiritual wifery" was used by John Bennett to describe his own version of polygamy and was condemned by Joseph as adultery, so using the term "spiritual wife', especially since the concept was that sealing was applied to postmortality, which is not simply a spiritual state, is inaccurate and may convey the wrong idea. Better to use the term used in the Church, which was "plural wife".

If Emma hadn't been antagonistic to the idea, then it is likely, imo, that Joseph would have probably not have married the vast majority of his plural wives in the last two years of his life as well as not been sealed in polyandrous relationships which were likely more symbolic than physical when 'restarting' the practice thus giving him more opportunities to interact on whatever level with his plural wives if desired over the years since the practice was first revealed to him. However, in either case there would still have been the public sensibilities to consider so Emma's position might not have made any significant difference.

CFR for it being important that to the contemporary Church.....

I would agree that some members prefer that possibility, but there is nothing on lds.org that indicates this as a preferred position nor is it a commonly held position among members that I know.

For those who are uncomfortable with it, I suspect it is often due to the apparent public denial (though I think Joseph described his marital status in a technical way so he wasn't lying, but that it would give a different impression than the reality so it was deception). Also, his marriage with Emma is sometimes idealized as a great romance and that seems incongruous for some with his practicing plural marriage.

If it was the negative stigma associated with plural marriage then surely the plural marriages of Brigham Young and other LDS prophets and leaders would be causing significant issues...and I don't see that.

Edited April 21, 2012 by calmoriah

[Jaybear]

I think it is unfair to judge either Brigham Young or Emma from this quote. Both had their weaknesses; Brigham Young's was his unremitting dislike for Emma. The feeling was mutual.

Again it was Smith, not Young that accused Emma of trying to kill him and it was Smith that declared Emma "was a child of hell, and literally the most wicked woman on this earth.."

Nonetheless, personally I agree with you. I would not judge Emma from this quote, but that is only because I don't consider either Young or Smith to be trustworthy or credible sources.

I remained puzzled that you and others here who consider Smith/Young to be God's chosen prophets, yet would still allow for even the possibility that such righteous men of God would falsely besmirch the reputation of a women in such a vile fashion.

[LDS_RM]

Either you're answering a different question than was asked, or you did not read the question.

the question posted is why would God have polygamy for only 68 years. The answer for the end of polygamy is found in the Doctrine and Covenants, Elden Watson is not the D&C thus anything he provides is personal opinion. The Saints where asked what they wanted to do, the Saints choose to stop the practice of polygamy.

[LDS_RM]

According to the Book of Mormon, Lehi left Jerusalem around 600 B.C., and commanded his children to have no more than one wife, and no concubines.

His son Jacob talks at great length about what a sin polygamy is for them at that time (B.C.), and tells his people they're to keep their father Lehi's commandment unless God tells them otherwise.

There's no indication that He ever did, and the chronology of the Book of Mormon indicates that the Nephite civilization ended around 400 A.D.

So the conclusion would seem to be that polygamy was a sin (at least here in the western hemisphere) from 600 B.C. to 400 A.D.

I was under the impression it's been an excommunicatable offense since 1912?

Wouldn't that mean God wanted it stopped?

Can you show that polygamy was prohibited prior to Jacob? As for polygamy being an excommunication offense, that has nothing to with God wanting or commanding the end of polygamy. God gave the Saints the choice to end polygamy, the saints made the choice to stop the practice. However the end of polygamy was not a commandment from God. The Church as a body agreed to a code of conduct, as such polygamy violates that code of conduct.

[theplains]

Because they were not his wives as we understand it, and he had no sexual relations with them.

Maybe the way we understand it is not the way Emma understood it.

Was Joseph under one law where he could marry an additional wife and the current wife (Emma in this case) would be

threatened with destruction if she did not accept them (D&C 132:52-54) and male priesthood holders were under a

different law where they could marry ten virgins, provided the others consented (verses 61-62)?

Why 10 and why virgins only? Is there a spiritual significance of the number 10?

Thanks,

Jim

[inquiringmind]

Can you show that polygamy was prohibited prior to Jacob?

Read the book of Jacob.

He says the prohibition went back to their father Lehi.

As for polygamy being an excommunication offense, that has nothing to with God wanting or commanding the end of polygamy.

I'm not sure I understand this.

Edited April 23, 2012 by inquiringmind

[LDS_RM]

Read the book of Jacob.

He says the prohibition went back to their father Lehi.

I'm not sure I understand this.

I will reread Jacob. In an early post you state that since 1912 polygamy has been an offense that people are excommunicated for, you then assert that excommunication indicates God wanted polygamy stopped. My position is, that excommunication for polygamy is about a standard of conduct the Saints agreed to. And that excommunication for polygamy does not indicate that God wanted the practice stopped. Polygamy ended for the Saints because the Saints made the choice to stop polygamy. The Saints were not commanded to stop polygamy.

[TruthSeeker24]

I'm confused. What are people arguing about in this thread?

[Jaybear]

I'm confused. What are people arguing about in this thread?

They are arguing over the implication of Emma's steadfast denial of polygamy?

Personally, I see her denial as solid evidence that she did not consider the practice a divine commandment.

[phaedrus ut]

He had no marital relations with them because he didn't want to, it wasn't his understanding of the doctrine, and he would not have hurt Emma anyway.

I see this hopeful suggestion brought up a lot that Joseph and his wives weren't intimate yet the only evidence we really have is that they did. In addition to the many journal entries of his wives and their family members we have 13 legally sworn affidavits from his wives that they were not only plural wives but they specifically said they were intimate. Some affidavits were very specific like Emily D. Partridge said she "roomed" with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had "carnal intercourse" with him. Melissa Lott testified that she had been Joseph's wife "in very deed".

I have yet to see a single source, journal entry, testimony that suggests Joseph practiced some sort of platonic polygamy.

Phaedrus