Mark Beesley Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I was perusing a page on the MRM site, (can't recall what took me there),, and I was reading a blurb by Shafovaloff bemoaning the lack of offical doctrine in the Church. He started his piece with the following observation:Perhaps the most honest and appropriate page on the entire lds.org domain is http://www.lds.org/official-doctrine. As of October 2, 2009, it reads, "The requested object does not exist on this server. The link you followed is either outdated, inaccurate, or the server has been instructed not to let you have it." The irony is rich.(I guess it was too difficult for him to find the updated link on doctrine.)Anyway, after wading through the article, I came to a video with Aaron's mug. I clicked on it so I could find further enlightenment about why I am so confused all the time, and what did I get? The following message popped up in the video screen: This video is private.The irony is, indeed, rich. Thanks for the chuckle Aaron. 4
Vance Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 LOL!!!!Typical hypocrite anti-Mormon, but I repeat myself.
Evergrow Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 The true irony about Anti-Mormons and Anti-mormonism is that they themselves are the ones who "hide facts" intentionally and unintentionally.They hide important facts which would change the ultimate conclusion so they can most falsely and negatively portray the Church in the way they want, rather than telling the actual truth.It's so bad what they do that almost every single subject and claim against the Church they make is entirely false. The Church in contrast can only be accused (falsely though) of so-called not telling the truth on a few issues. Yes, the anti's use facts generally in their claim, but they use a little of it to lie, and misrepresent mormonism and mormons.In contrast, it is true that the Church tells a "basic" history, and doesn't get into controversial things much (hence the anti-mormon claim of hiding history and the truth), but the difference is that the Church isn't actually lying or misrepresenting anything. When the full facts of an issue are known which includes the anti-mormon claims, but much more that THEY don't tell, the full truth entirely supports the "basic" telling of history and issues the Church gives. Another aspect is that there is logic and facts the anti doesn't consider when making their judgments (such as why the Church generally shows translation of the BOM with him at a table instead of head in a hat). 1
Mark Beesley Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 Link to said video? link removed for temple contentThere are a number of videos on the page. The video in question is towards the bottom of the page accompanying the section entitled Five Questions to Ask When You Hear, "That's Not Official Doctrine"
frankenstein Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Both side glamorize their message to fit their own agenda
thesometimesaint Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I don't expect the Church to not "glamorize" its message. Afterall Immortality and Eternal Life are BIG Deals. What I don't expect for the Church to do is lie. Something which the Anti's do
divinenature Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 There are a number of videos on the page. The video in question is towards the bottom of the page accompanying the section entitled Five Questions to Ask When You Hear, "That's Not Official Doctrine"Oh, thanks. I see it! Well, I can't view the video either even if I sign in to youtube. I bet the author doesn't even know. Probably an email to the site admin would make the video available to view.
cinepro Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 The true irony about Anti-Mormons and Anti-mormonism is that they themselves are the ones who "hide facts" intentionally and unintentionally.They hide important facts which would change the ultimate conclusion so they can most falsely and negatively portray the Church in the way they want, rather than telling the actual truth.It's so bad what they do that almost every single subject and claim against the Church they make is entirely false. The Church in contrast can only be accused (falsely though) of so-called not telling the truth on a few issues. Yes, the anti's use facts generally in their claim, but they use a little of it to lie, and misrepresent mormonism and mormons.I don't know what you've been seeing, but everyone I've personally known in the last 8 years that has left the Church (or stopped attending but didn't take their names off the records) did so because of true stuff in the Church's teachings or history. It's only about 25 people, but unless my "sample" is extremely skewed, it would seem the anti-Mormons you're describing have missed the point.Because from what I can see, the best thing for an anti-Mormon to do would be to tell the truth about LDS history. That seems to be what gets people to leave.
thesometimesaint Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 cinepro:Except that the Anti's either don't know or are lying about Church history.BTW I don't have a testimony of Church history. I'm only interested in the Truth Claims.
Freedom Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I keep searching for something offensive that will compel me to leave the church because it takes up too much of my time. I won't hold my breath, but hopefully someday I will find what I am looking for.
Rob Bowman Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Aaron's video that was unintentionally marked as "private" can now be viewed:removed for temple contentPerhaps someone here would now like to deal with the thoughtful arguments presented in Aaron's article.Or perhaps not.
Log Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Because from what I can see, the best thing for an anti-Mormon to do would be to tell the truth about LDS history. That seems to be what gets people to leave.You should see the looks I get in EQ when I mention that Joseph translated the Book of Mormon from ancient golden plates via the gift and power of God. They run for the exits.And, on a serious note, all things must be presented in order for context and understanding. Presenting true things out of context is, sadly, still a form of deception, and can lead to alienation and separation, which can be increased depending on the attitude with which the material is presented. This happens to be a fact whether the subject is Mormonism or math. Edited March 30, 2012 by Log
zerinus Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Aaron's video that was unintentionally marked as "private" can now be viewed:Perhaps someone here would now like to deal with the thoughtful arguments presented in Aaron's article.Or perhaps not.There is nothing "thoughtful" about that article, and there whole of it is like a large piece of jello that you can't pin to the wall. And of course, he has no option but to turn a blind eye to the answer that the Church itself has provided to the questions he has raised. The words of Lord to the Pharisees come to mind:Matthew 22:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
Rob Bowman Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 zerinus,You wrote:There is nothing "thoughtful" about that article, and there whole of it is like a large piece of jello that you can't pin to the wall. And of course, he has no option but to turn a blind eye to the answer that the Church itself has provided to the questions he has raised. The words of Lord to the Pharisees come to mind:Matthew 22:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!The really "rich irony" is that it is the Mormon apologists who argue in the worst lawyerly fashion "that's not official doctrine" to excuse themselves from being held accountable for anything that their supposed prophets and apostles have said who are behaving like the scribes Jesus condemned.
zerinus Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 The really "rich irony" is that it is the Mormon apologists who . . .And of course, there are no "official Mormon apologists" either. If you have a problem with "Mormon apologists," it is between you and them. It has nothing to do with the Church. The Church speaks through its own official spokesman, website, and publications.
mfbukowski Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) zerinus,You wrote:The really "rich irony" is that it is the Mormon apologists who argue in the worst lawyerly fashion "that's not official doctrine" to excuse themselves from being held accountable for anything that their supposed prophets and apostles have said who are behaving like the scribes Jesus condemned.You're just a real sweet guy, you know?Then you wonder why you get the treatment you do on this board. Proverbs 23:9 9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Edited March 31, 2012 by mfbukowski 1
KevinG Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 And of course, there are no "official Mormon apologists" either. Awww... does that mean I have to take it off my resume?
Recommended Posts