Pahoran Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Messenger,What I would do if this happened to me:Scene: Chapel foyer, Sunday morning.Me: Good morning Brother XXXX, how are you today?XXXX: Fine thanks.Me: Brother XXXX, do you have a moment for a quick word about your home teaching?XXXX: Okay.Me: Brother XXXX, you do realise that as a home teacher, you don't have any authority to conduct worthiness interviews, or anything like them, dont you?XXXX: Uh, yes.Me: Nor to pry into anyone's background?XXXX: Yeah.Me: Glad to hear it. Brother XXXX, you crossed both of those lines in your last visit with me. Can I rely upon you not to make that mistake in the future? Will you give me your word on that?Regards,Pahoran
jwhitlock Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I agree. But, a stake calling I think represents a minimum set of skills demonstrated. He is in fact over all the teachers and ward Sunday School presidents and gives direction on how they do their callings. He should be a teaching expert. He is not. He sounds like a bit of a control freak, with a desire to micromanage others.What bugs me about these situations is that they tend to hit us without any warning. We should be allowed some time to prepare for them so that we can at least get some entertainment value out of them. My creative juices only kick in after the situation is over.Maybe you could recommend to the bishop that all home teaching in the ward be immediately suspended, until sensitivity audits can be conducted. I think that you'd find a lot of support for that course of action.
Messenger Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 Ok I got an interview in one hour with the bishop. Lets try and answer some questions .....Hello Messenger...I'm glad you got through your episode and have better insight at this time. I scanned through this thread, and hope you won't be leaving your ward. I don't know that I saw where you had confronted HIM about your reactions to the questions he asked you. Is HE aware of your reaction and why? If not, he should be. Forget the SP and go directly to the man. If he can't see what he did, then since you've got input into the assignment of HTs, if I were you I'd just assign myself a new HT and then have a meeting with the bishop about the situation. If that doesn't work, then you can always go to the SP... but this to me is something that should be addressed locally first, then higher if necessary.I would ask him where he got his questions, and why he was asking you such things, and did he realize how offensive he and his questions were??Good luck.GGI am somewhat better, but worse off than late last night. I'm about 60% right now on the Hyper-focus. GG, I have not confronted him, and you know that's probably not a good idea. I don't have very kind thoughts and with my upbringing would probably just end up in a fist fight. I guess the real reason isn't so much the types of things he said, but the fact that I probably trusted him on a much higher level than I should have. I got a 1 - 20 scale, and 1 being the best, and 20 the worst, he was a 5, and now 20. That kind of swing is bound to create problems. My only fear is that Bishop will have him there in the office, brother XXXX will put his hand on my shoulder, and I will taser his *** with 3 million volts. An you better believe I am indeed taking the taser.I was in class once taking about how I loved my Baptist upbringing and my Bishop and person I had known for 15 years quipped…”Then why don’t you go back”? I know how horrible people can be.Ya, the main problems with my ward is 1) rich side of town vs poor side of town. Historically everyone that has been rich, has had the callings. Its only until recently that two of us have support callings, and yes, I am on the poor side. But usually the happier side that's for sure. Messenger,What I would do if this happened to me:Scene: Chapel foyer, Sunday morning.Me: Good morning Brother XXXX, how are you today?XXXX: Fine thanks.Me: Brother XXXX, do you have a moment for a quick word about your home teaching?XXXX: Okay.Me: Brother XXXX, you do realise that as a home teacher, you don't have any authority to conduct worthiness interviews, or anything like them, dont you?XXXX: Uh, yes.Me: Nor to pry into anyone's background?XXXX: Yeah.Me: Glad to hear it. Brother XXXX, you crossed both of those lines in your last visit with me. Can I rely upon you not to make that mistake in the future? Will you give me your word on that?Regards,PahoranTo be honest, I really dont think I could hold back if he was in the same room. With ADHD, there's not a lot of middle ground to work with. Although I try my best to find it. I really do appreciate your suggestions though. Perhaps I just need to find a solution that would work in my situation.He sounds like a bit of a control freak, with a desire to micromanage others.What bugs me about these situations is that they tend to hit us without any warning. We should be allowed some time to prepare for them so that we can at least get some entertainment value out of them. My creative juices only kick in after the situation is over.Maybe you could recommend to the bishop that all home teaching in the ward be immediately suspended, until sensitivity audits can be conducted. I think that you'd find a lot of support for that course of action. He sounds like a bit of a control freak, with a desire to micromanage others.What bugs me about these situations is that they tend to hit us without any warning. We should be allowed some time to prepare for them so that we can at least get some entertainment value out of them. My creative juices only kick in after the situation is over.Maybe you could recommend to the bishop that all home teaching in the ward be immediately suspended, until sensitivity audits can be conducted. I think that you'd find a lot of support for that course of action. I'm all about improvement, but that doesn't come easily in the wards. I mean, your solution would definitely satisfy me and would make the negative feelings I have go away. Just to give you an example, today I told the HPGL that I want to be on the Home Teaching do not call list. ......................... bishop just called me, he wants me to come over now. Tazer loaded and charged.
Messenger Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 leaving the taser behind, I'd probably use it if bring it.
Messenger Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Hmmmm. We'll I think I'm done. I tried to talk about it and of course I couldn't like an ADHD idiot. Then I noticed that glass case they gave me to use for the Historian calling, I just purchased $150 worth of supplies and artwork and somebody else has filled now. Nice! I guess I'll take that out of my tithing. So, I'm cleaning out all my files with any church crap and taking it to the nearest dumpster. I removed my photo, phone number and email address from the church directory website. removing all emails from the church and blocking and new ones from coming in. what a pile of crap. What was I thinking? HAHAHA! That people actually care about us? Well, at least I did. I am definitely done. Edited February 22, 2012 by Messenger
Calm Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Messenger, from what you have said in the past you may change your mind or y\at least the depth of your feelings. perhaps it would be wise not to do anything you can't undo, like destroy or dump something. if you have to remove something now, why not put it in a box in your trunk or other safe place and sit on it for a couple of days to give your self a chance to think about what you want to do.Just a suggestion. I don't know about others but i do know for myself i tend to regret at least part of my actions in these kinds of situations about 25% of the time and i am grateful when I've exercised a bit of caution about it.
Messenger Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 Cal,Thanks. So I ended up going back to my original appt time with the bishop, but he was gone. So, I decided to do some confronting.1) First on the list was the Bishop's secretary who gave away the glass cabinet to someone else. I told him, I didnt appreciate that fact that you gave that away without asking me first. Then he got snooty with me and said, "Hey friend" I stopped him and told him he wasnt my friend, but he was an idiot that I couldn't count on. He got huffy, I listened, he stopped, I said good bye.2) Second on the list was Bro XXXXX. Called him up, told him I didnt appreciate the line of questioning he gave me on my Home Teaching visit. Then I told him it wasnt until the next morning did I realize where he was going with it. Then the verbal middle finger and have a nice day.3) nothing thrown away yet. Honestly too busy to go through that trash yet.
Calm Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) (speaking generically here, not about this situation) Just remember you can always say you are sorry if you ever change your mind on something, but if you've tossed something you may not be able to replace it. Edited February 22, 2012 by calmoriah
Messenger Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) (speaking generically here, not about this situation) Just remember you can always say you are sorry if you ever change your mind on something, but if you've tossed something you may not be able to replace it.Thanks. That's probably good advice. Staying and fighting seems to have left me with a better feeling than pulling up stakes and moving on to another ward. Maybe things aren't always as hopeless as they seem. Staying and fighting feels better than moving on. You never know how I will feel tomorrow though. Edited February 22, 2012 by Messenger
JDave Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Messenger,I just wanted to say that there are always some amazing people out there who truly understand, or at least understand enough to truly empathize and be there for you. While you may find some here, I hope you find some where you are at too. Don't let those on the opposite end of the spectrum dictate your life choices.
Messenger Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) JDave,That's the real issue isn't it? I mean all the people that should be truly amazing, hardly ever are. In the end, we face our trials pretty much alone and devoid of human contact of people that can truly empathize and be there with us. And, when we reach out we often get our hand smashed as if with a sledge hammer, stabbed with a knife, and run over with a car. So the pattern that eventually develops is that we stop reaching out to people face to face, and rely on faceless forums or non-members. We take up the proverbial smoking habit just so that we can be with those that smoke in groups outside of buildings just so that we can have that human contact. Eventually, we learn that even the smoking non-members, who seem more compassionate than members, also end up having an agenda and we realize that they too are untrustworthy and we are left with nothing more than metaphorical lung cancer. Eventually I will figure this out like I always have in the past through my own personal school of hard knocks. After all, I am the top of my class of one. I will understand that nearly everyone out there has an agenda, and are always looking for ways degrade and demean me and I will always wonder why after I have served them in every way possible. I will grow spirituality closer to Heavenly Father like no other, there maybe administrating angels and I will become so sharp that I will again see and recognize those that have ill intentions well before they enter my life or my home and avoid them. I will loose the hate I feel now and realize that I must be an example to those that utterly failed in their responsibilities to lead or at least try. At that point I will realize that the only true supportive people out there aren't even on this world at all, with the exception of 1 or 2 that I have met face to face in my entire lifetime. Wouldn't it be nice to actually develop a trust with someone that didn't violate it? With all the people that I reach out to in the past, it would be nice that I could receive that back just once, when I needed it the most. The fact is, it simply does not exist. For the few that truly do that work, not for the numbers or the recognition, even they realize that the people in our ward and stake ranks represent soldiers on a strange battlefield with as many sides as there are soldiers. In the end, in this Telestial world, we are truly not unified and I look forward to the day when I can be, sooner or later. Edited February 22, 2012 by Messenger
JDave Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 That's the real issue isn't it? I mean all the people that should be truly amazing, hardly ever are.I have found that quite a large number of people really are truly amazing, but usually within the confines of their own experience. To reach beyond... that is indeed rare and to be prized.Those of us who, of necessity, dig deeper into the well of experience [i.e. pain] that life proffers find ourselves in the juxtaposition of having greater understanding of certain things while simultaneously being less understood by others. It is, as you said, a lonely road. But it is the same road that the Savior trod. 1
Messenger Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Thanks. Its nice to read your words which are wise and give me perspective that I didn't have before. Your style of writing and thought are a lot like those of a General Authority. Undoubtedly, when you give a talk in church, you notice the children stop making noise, and the babies stop crying. How many difficult times does it take to reach your level of understanding? Edited February 22, 2012 by Messenger
JDave Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Thanks. Its nice to read your words which are wise and give me perspective that I didn't have before. Your style of writing and thought are a lot like those of a General Authority. Undoubtedly, when you give a talk in church, you notice the children stop making noise, and the babies stop crying. How many difficult times does it take to reach your level of understanding?When I am reflecting on such things my language does get a bit wordy, but I haven't noticed any effect on kids other than the normal sleep-inducing effect that adults can sometimes have (but that sleepy effect seems to work better on the much older kids ).I don't claim any special understanding other than that which I have experienced. Some of that pain comes from observing the trials and suffering of those dear to me, including that pain of a violated trust. Quite a bit of the understanding comes from paying close attention to the actions and thoughts of those who have walked on that weary road or are helping others on their way. But hopefully it helps.
rpn Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 and don'y take it out of tithing. if it was for your calling, then submit your receipts and you should be reimbursed.
Messenger Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 My thoughts today:1) I'll Probably stay in the ward. I'll work with the HPGL to approach this from a teaching standpoint - what we can do to avoid this type of thing with other H.P. that Home Teach. Probably use the manual 2 to clarify points of trust.2) The historian calling. That's the one where they let someone take over the display case that was assigned to me. If I'm going to stay, that calling is probably too much for me and my ADHD. They obviously don't think its important or they would have remembered to call and ask me before giving the case away. Funny, they said there was only one key, so I paid to have another one made up. Yet the ward secretary found one and gave it to someone else. I don't have any receipts of all the supplies I purchased. They suck at giving money back anyways, I've never been successful at that in this ward. Plus, they also assigned to me the task of maintaining the names on all the plaques everywhere. The engraver who has the account is only available when I work, so that was going to be impossible anyways.3) Taking my name off the home teaching list and put on the Do Not Call list. It will probably take another 2-4 years to get over what's happened. Part of the problem is that this happened when I got divorced and I caught the home teacher going through my kitchen cupboards when I stepped out to another room temporarily. I came back and there he was .... looking for something. But that's another story with more players too.4) the HPRL is very supportive after what's happened. So, while I don't like what's happened, lets give some recognition where it deserved. He says he doesn't want to lose me, and considers me not only a friend, but a valued asset to the HP group. I think those are kind words, but probably a bit over the top. But I will take them.5) Our bishop is still unreachable and hasn't returned any calls yet. So, at least we know in a crisis he wouldn't be able to be found. Both the HPGL and myself have left messages with no luck. Again, not really a problem, just a point of notification.6) Fully expect to eventually meet with the Bishop and the HPGL and discuss where we go from here. 7) Still plan on a non-sustaining vote during stake conference for brother XXXX. However, I dont have the anger I used to have and I dont think it will be a problem if I see him in church. But certainly not going to extend any more trust than I would anybody else on the street.
MorningStar Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 You're going to meet someone in every ward who tries to pry. Why not just tell the guy he was being totally inappropriate and leave it at that? He can either learn from the experience or continue to be nosy.
MorningStar Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 You're going to meet someone in every ward who tries to pry. Why not just tell the guy he was being totally inappropriate and leave it at that? He can either learn from the experience or continue to be nosy.
Messenger Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) MS,Do you think that would change anything? Im talking about Brother XXXX's future line of questioning to the people he Home Teaches. There are indeed plenty of people that pry. But should they do it when they are acting on behalf of the Lord? Do you think Home Teaching makes a difference? If not, why not?How do you improve the world around you? Edited February 23, 2012 by Messenger
MorningStar Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 MS,Do you think that would change anything? Im talking about Brother XXXX's future line of questioning to the people he Home Teaches. There are indeed plenty of people that pry. But should they do it when they are acting on behalf of the Lord? Do you think Home Teaching makes a difference? If not, why not?How do you improve the world around you?By telling him how offensive he was behaving, maybe he won't do that to anyone else? Too many singles get grilled about why they are single. No one should have to answer questions about why they don't have children either. I think immediately telling people that they are out of line is better than moving out of the ward because you're just going to meet another person who does the same kind of thing. It would have put a shock in him if you had asked, "Are you implying that I'm gay? Really?!" Sometimes home teachers and visiting teachers feel they are supposed to pinpoint some kind of personal struggle their teachees are experiencing rather than just being friends. I had a visiting teacher who asked probing questions and I just refused to answer her questions because it was none of her business. I don't need anyone to come over and "fix" me. Just be my friend.
KevinG Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Two of the worst behaviors I've seen among members is gossip and unrighteous judgements... This isn't particularly a Mormon thing - it happens in all large social organizations. Christ answered the question "what sin did this man's parents commit" with what was essentially "none of your business - and you have no idea".Having said that - it is very difficult to forgive those closest to us for ongoing petty offenses. Take a deep breath and vow not to become like those who have offended you. Then think your actions our very carefully and evaluate all of them with "will this make the situation better for others and myself?"It is very frustrating when the answer to a well laid plan is "not really - it wont fix things" because of the loss of control. But in those situations it is better to forgive and leave the judgement in Christ's hands.Sorry you are struggling... You have every reason to be offended and you deserve better. Just be careful you don't harbor the offense to the point where you deny yourself the blessings of the Gospel and those Saints who are treating you right.(free advice - worth everything you paid for it. :-)) 1
Messenger Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 DaddyG,Thanks for your post. And thanks for being supportive. I finally got myself in my right might last night and prayed about it. The answer came this morning. Thank you all for your spiritual support as it has worked. It suddenly came to me this morning that we should try and figure out why Brother XXXX might be asking me those question and that perhaps its not him trying to find out anything for the purpose of getting some dirt on me. I mean, I really thought that perhaps that was the case. Then the reason became clear. I can not share that on the forum, but I can say it has nothing to do with me or anything that I have done. And when the answer came, all the hurtful feelings I had were gone.I wont be changing wards. But my trust has been damaged for sure. And while there is no excuse for such a line of questioning on a home teaching visit, at least I know why he did ask those questions. I suppose we all have struggles, and challenges some have more than others. We react the way we do based on how we were raised, or some other factor like my ADHD. If someone is struggling, and might have a difficult time acting on behalf of the Lord, they should do what I do when I have an A.D.H.D. episode, simply leave work or ask to be removed from a calling (permanently or temporarily). I know that I could never be a president of anything in a calling. I just cant. And if I was called to such a position, the Lord better make it known that I need to accept the calling then I know I would have his support. I would ask others to volunteer to do the same if whatever is going on in their life is affecting them. Especially if such a problem is not readily noticeable from the outside like my ADHD.Tonight I will find out more about his stake calling and I will base my supporting vote on Sunday's Stake conference on what I find out tonight. I suppose there are people that I trust that I wouldn't mind as a home teacher. And I may submit a list of names to the HPGL to prayerfully select one for me. Also, I cant help but realize that I was the one that submitted his name to be my home teacher. So, while it is not my duty to pray and finalize the assignment, I cant help but wonder if the outcome would have been different if I had.
Messenger Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 By telling him how offensive he was behaving, maybe he won't do that to anyone else? Too many singles get grilled about why they are single. No one should have to answer questions about why they don't have children either. I think immediately telling people that they are out of line is better than moving out of the ward because you're just going to meet another person who does the same kind of thing. It would have put a shock in him if you had asked, "Are you implying that I'm gay? Really?!" Sometimes home teachers and visiting teachers feel they are supposed to pinpoint some kind of personal struggle their teachees are experiencing rather than just being friends. I had a visiting teacher who asked probing questions and I just refused to answer her questions because it was none of her business. I don't need anyone to come over and "fix" me. Just be my friend.That wouldn't have really worked because it wasn't until the following morning that I figured out that his line of questioning had a common theme and wasn't part of any lesson.
LDSToronto Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 You know, messenger, you could just tell the guy he's not welcome back into your house. Seriously, you can do stuff like that. H.
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