Are Mormons Stupid? (Or Theists In General?)

[LeSellers]

As someone once said, it isn't what people know that's the problem; it's that they "know" so much that just isn't so.

Will Rogers, as I recall.

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so.

Lehi

Edited February 6, 2012 by LeSellers

[Ray Callis Hatton III]

One would have to first define what they mean by "Free Thinking." Most Mormons, in general, are converts. They examined the church, departed from some of the their old ways of thinking, and chose to join, while going against what everyone else says. There seems to be much free thinking going on when a Mormons chooses to follow their relgion.

Is the idea that "followers" did not think, and "thinkers" do not follow? Its not likely that any given "free thinking" atheist has truly risen above their environment, but is rather following society, culture, science, etc. and also depend on standards, institutions, authorities, infrastructures, etc. and yet they somehow determined that being free thinking is about following them?

Edited February 7, 2012 by Ray Callis Hatton III

[KevinG]

One would have to first define what they mean by "Free Thinking?" Most Mormons, in general, are converts. They examined the church, departed from some of the thier old ways of thinking, and chose to join, while going against what everyone else says. They continue to examine and question even after baptism. They seem to be much tree thinking involved in following relgion.

Is the idea that "followers" did not think, and "thinkers" do not follow? Its not likely that any given "free thinking" atheist has truly risen above their environment, but is rather following society, culture, science, etc. depends on standards, institutions, authorities, infrastructures, etc. and somehow determined that to being free thinking is about following them.

O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us. - Robert Burns "To A Louse"

[Grundelwalken]

"Real-Life Smarts" is one of those things one has to be born with, I think.

My observations are that many begin to find "real-life smarts" as they begin to have teenagers in their home. Those 'yung-uns' seem to require the acquisition of something more than was originally installed in the system to prevent annihilation of the species. At least that was so for this old guy. MW

[bluebell]

Will Rogers, as I recall.

Lehi

And I think he got that saying from Socrates.

[sjdawg]

I've said this before but it bears repeating. As I was leaving the LDS Church one of the things that gave me my greatest moment to pause and reflect on my decision was the number of individuals within the church who are highly intelligent, highly respected (by me) and who know the things that I know but have come to a different conclusion about the LDS Church.

In the end I did decide to leave the Church but certainly not because I consider myself more intelligent than those who remain within the Church. I don't think either side of the equation has a monopoly on intelligence (or stupidity)

[Storm Rider]

Because of the contentious nature of a debate or polemics, it is only natural that the extremes are identified and seen. We often see these displays from both sides and neither is enjoyable to see; they exist more because of the nature of the discussion rather than an honest reflection of the individuals involved.

I appreciate the teachings of the LDS Church about truths found in other churches and religions and that we need to thresh through the best books and claim the truths we find for our own; God is the source of all truth and as his disciples we naturally claim all truth for our belief system. However, I do think that some LDS do a less than ideal job of trying to recognize truths in other churches or religions. Too often we get confused by the statement fullness of the gospel with having all truth. This confusion results in some very poor positions being taken by LDS brothers and sisters.

On the other hand, it is rare to find other churches teach the same caliber of valuation of truth. I hear some who will charitably admit that LDS are Christians; that we believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a perfect life, was crucified, rose the third day and will return one day, but then roll into a scorching misunderstanding of our beliefs as if Jesus could be overlooked. How does one put Jesus' atonement and being on a lower valuation than other doctrines? It puzzles the ****ens out of me.

All of us would be better off to continue to point out what is good and pure in the beliefs of others and acknowledge their value rather than harangue others for their perceived lack of truth.

[Lightbearer]

So what is this all about? Are traditional conservative Mormons nothing more than mindless non-thinkers who march to the beat of their Church masters? Why do critics, especially atheists, always try to pull out this supposed intelligence card?

Am I just a stupid little boy who clings to his Mormonism because he is afraid of the dark (death?)

I think that this is a snobbery founded in fear, yes no matter how much they deny it they really do fear death, religion, and most importantly being wrong! That is why they must cling to their securtiy blanket of "logic" and "reasoning" and label anyone who has a particle of faith or belief in divinity as stupid or irrational. They think since they cannot gain faith in God, therefore He must not exist, because if He does then they would be precieved as inadequite or incapable of finding out the truth. Thus the need to rationalize that any feelings of the spirit must be some sort of self-generated emotional response and thus cut themselves off from any possible means of communication with God. At first contact with Atheists and like-mided "intellectuals" I am offended even angered, but as time goes by I tend to pity them as the miserable souls that they really are who without an anchor are tossed to a frow on the tempests of life.

As for education, I say so what? I have attended graduate school at Syracuse University, does that make me better than anyone else? Learning is not the same as intelligence and for that matter it also depends on what one is schooled in. Does a humble fisherman know more than a learned doctor of the law? I think it depends on what one is learned in. Advanced calculus will not necessarily grant one entrance into the Celestial Kingdom... nor will it bar one. The Book of Mormon teaches this point:

"O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God." (2 Nephi 9:28 - 29)

That is how I view learning, in relation to faith in God. Edited February 8, 2012 by Lightbearer

[thesometimesaint]

Lightbearer:

No man can be saved in ignorance, and no man will be damned in ignorance either.

"A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge.”

[Gillebre]

I believe that all members of the Church must become converted. Borrowed light serves a purpose, but is not an ideal lifestyle, in my opinion.