aspire Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 There has been plenty said to "be revamped for our times."Follow this link:http://lds.org/searc...y=energy+drinksI know, and agree. It is talked about but not applied. Energy drinks are a kin of poison, but so is soda of any kind. But when you go in for a TR you aren't denied it for consuming them.
Wants2know Posted January 18, 2012 Author Posted January 18, 2012 That's what I mean ErayR - there is so much confusion in the church, in my experience about this. Is their modern (i.e. current counsel) from the Presidency on this? If the Word of Wisdom is really about treating your body well, then what is it about coffee and tea that is so bad if it's not the caffeine? I see these "power drinks" that people are using, and it is hard for me to understand what exactly is okay about them that they are not counted in WoW obediency? 1
MatthewG Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I drink green tea cold on occasions. I use alcohols and wines when I cook but take care to cook them long enough to evaporate as much of the alcohol as possible. I also believe that Marijuana should be legalized for medical use especially for Chemo patients and other serious medical treatments. I believe the Word of Wisdom shouldn't be part of the temple recommend process and should be an encouraged guideline. Red wines have been shown to be healthy on a regular limited (1 or 2 glasses) basis.
Wants2know Posted January 18, 2012 Author Posted January 18, 2012 I agree with you, but the LDS as a society side step around it like mad, consuming caffeinated, and/or energy drinks. I know more than one who drinks Mountain Dew, or Monster in the early am to get them going. These products are far worse for the body than coffee or tea but you can still have a Temple Recommend. If the WoW is truly a commandment for our health then it needs to be revamped for our times.I think I'm going to agree with you on this as well.
LeSellers Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Red wines have been shown to be healthy on a regular limited (1 or 2 glasses) basis.That study was falsified.The officials found 145 cases of fabricated or false data and notified 11 journals - including the Journal of Cellular & Molecular Medicine and Journal of Agriculture and Food Chemistry - of its review, the university said in a written statement."We have a responsibility to correct the scientific record and inform peer researchers across the country," Philip Austin, interim vice president for health affairs, said in the statement.Lehi Edited January 18, 2012 by LeSellers
LeSellers Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I also believe that Marijuana should be legalized for medical use especially for Chemo patients and other serious medical treatments. Marijuana should be legal for anyone who foolishly wants to use it. Freedom to use "recreational' drugs is as important as freedom of religion.And, besides, the "War on Drugs" is too costly in terms of lives lost to prison, deaths, treasure, families destroyed by prosecutions and imprisonments, and terror (as in Mexico as we speak). Prohibition has never worked (some people still use drugs, use prostitutes, and do everything else the state forbids, and always will), and while it is laudable to want to protect children (and even adults) from the influences of drug dealers, pimps, and french fries, the plain fact is that it just does not work. Lehi 2
CV75 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I agree with you, but the LDS as a society side step around it like mad, consuming caffeinated, and/or energy drinks. I know more than one who drinks Mountain Dew, or Monster in the early am to get them going. These products are far worse for the body than coffee or tea but you can still have a Temple Recommend. If the WoW is truly a commandment for our health then it needs to be revamped for our times.That gets into the “spirit of the law” if not just the “wisdom” aspect of common sense in general so I try not to judge others on either of those points. Personally, I don’t drink energy drinks, use no-doze, etc., but I think medicine with caffeine in it is beneficial when not abused.I think everyone has to account for himself in these choices and the attitudes that underlie them.A temple recommend reflects the bare minimum standard of temple attendance, and many people wavering just short of the glory in the other 11 questions still have them and go.
CV75 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 http://lds.org/new-e...&query=caffeineNo one will lose out on blessings following counsel like this, only gain more blessings.
aspire Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 That gets into the “spirit of the law” if not just the “wisdom” aspect of common sense in general so I try not to judge others on either of those points. Personally, I don’t drink energy drinks, use no-doze, etc., but I think medicine with caffeine in it is beneficial when not abused.I think everyone has to account for himself in these choices and the attitudes that underlie them.A temple recommend reflects the bare minimum standard of temple attendance, and many people wavering just short of the glory in the other 11 questions still have them and go.Then I should get to live the Spirit of the Law for the rest of the WoW and not worry if I want to enjoy a glass of wine every once in a while. It the Spirit of the Law right? TR still?
CV75 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 If the Word of Wisdom is really about treating your body well, then what is it about coffee and tea that is so bad if it's not the caffeine? I see these "power drinks" that people are using, and it is hard for me to understand what exactly is okay about them that they are not counted in WoW obediency?I think we can trace and attribute some of the blessings of health to the basics of the Word of Wisdom, but the same or additional blessings of health may well be a “miraculous” result of exercising faith unto obedience in abstaining from the substances mentioned in D&C 89. So it may not solely be about what is bad about the substances, but what the least of the saints can do to get a blessing.Another blessing is personal revelation, which would include inspiration on what other specific substances to avoid, and what to do to have the body / mind /spirit the Lord wants you to have for His purpose for you to fulfill, and not everyone will get that same personal revelation. But we have to start with the basics, and this is something everyone can do.
aspire Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 No one will lose out on blessings following counsel like this, only gain more blessings.This is going to sound sassy. But what blessing? There have been thousands of people who have lived the WoW who have died because we are mortal in a imperfect world. Sometimes the blessing have to be seen now in this life, it's the only one we have.
CV75 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Then I should get to live the Spirit of the Law for the rest of the WoW and not worry if I want to enjoy a glass of wine every once in a while. It the Spirit of the Law right? TR still?That really is between you, the Lord and your Bishop, and if you have a temple recommend, you have your answer!
aspire Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 That really is between you, the Lord and your Bishop, and if you have a temple recommend, you have your answer!Good answer. Safe.
LeSellers Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 That really is between you, the Lord and your Bishop, and if you have a temple recommend, you have your answer!Good answer. Safe. Both "safe" and "true".Lehi 2
CV75 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 This is going to sound sassy. But what blessing? There have been thousands of people who have lived the WoW who have died because we are mortal in a imperfect world. Sometimes the blessing have to be seen now in this life, it's the only one we have.The Word of Wisdom isn't promising immortality. Some of the blessings promised are clearly physical and for this life, and many are clearly spiritual. Some are both. The spiritual do follow us into immortality, though.I think the connection between the physical blessing and the spiritual blessing is seen in avoiding the spiritual effects of addiction, and feeling good enough physically and mentally to do your best at whatever spiritual task you are undertaking (prayer, sacrament, temple attendance, testimony, teaching and service of any kind, etc.). Some people may never feel good even while obeying the Word of Wisdom, but they they are still doing their best with what they've got and are blessed accordingly. 1
CV75 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Good answer. Safe. I really do find a great sense of peace in not judging others!Plus the second part of your question might be, "What do I do with my recommend?" and that I beleive has far greater implications than just doing what it takes to get one!
Nominee Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 No one will lose out on blessings following counsel like this, only gain more blessings.I agree! I totally agree. I hope it comes across that I agree because I do!
Nominee Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Then I should get to live the Spirit of the Law for the rest of the WoW and not worry if I want to enjoy a glass of wine every once in a while. It the Spirit of the Law right? TR still?You say "get to" like it is a good thing you are being denied. How is that? Why is that? It's a word of wisdom. It is a blessing that shows the love Heavenly Father has for us.
Stargazer Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) This subject comes up so frequently one might come to the conclusion that Latter-day Saints are looking for strict rules to follow, as if they were the modern-day Christian equivalents of the Pharisees.Strict adherance to detailed guidelines was (and is) the hallmark of men looking beyond the scriptures in order to create ways to make themselves look "more holy than thou." In my humble opinion.Take the Law of Moses for example. Read the Pentateuch for your background. Then examine how various tenets of it are to be observed in today's modern observers, our dear friends the religous Jews."Not allowed to light a fire on the Sabbath" becomes "not allowed to flip a light switch (on OR off) on the Sabbath." This comes about because some rabbinical scholar at some time after the invention of electricity noticed that sometimes electricity makes a spark, and therefore it must be a form of fire, at least under the Law of Moses. So, there you are. Flipping a switch is lighting a fire.I suppose it's OK to leave a fire burning INTO the Sabbath, so if you want a room where you can read in after sundown on the Sabbath, you have to flip the switch before sundown and it must burn until the next sundown. Woe betide you if some oaf flips the light on in your bedroom before sundown and nobody notices until after sundown, then you either have to try to sleep in a lighted room or find a room where its dark.Another bit of rabbinical creativity results in observant Jews having to keep two separate sets of cooking utensils, one to cook meat dishes and the other to cook dishes containing milk and milk products (because thou shalt not cook a lamb in his own mother's milk). I don't know if it is OK to eat the two kinds of cooked food from off the same plate, or if you have to have two plates: one for the mashed potatoes and the other for the roast beef (mashed potatoes are made using milk, by the way). I hope you can mix meat and milk in your stomach. But that might not be Kosher, either.I'm sure that our Crazy Israeli, Volgadon, is going to come down on me like a ton of bricks because I probably got something wrong in the above paragraphs. My apologies in advance.The word "tea" originally meant the plant known as camelia sinensis ("chinese camelia") or black tea. But since the word "infusion" is too awkward for general use (that is what you are doing when you steep dried plant materials in hot water, making an infusion), the word "tea" crept into use in the place of "infusion". Nowadays, everything gets called "tea" whether it is black tea or not. This leads to the Pharisees among us deciding that herbal teas are against the WoW. According to these folks, peppermit tea is against the Wow because it has the dreaded "T" word in it.They ought to visit England, where the evening meal is frequently referred to as "tea". I remember when my family moved there for my Dad's employment, and the first LDS family (I was the only Mormon in my family) I visited invited me to stay for the evening meal. Except that they said "Would you like to stay for tea?" And I thought that maybe they weren't taking the WoW very seriously. Several days later I discovered that was simply an alternate use for the word, but those LDS Pharisees who can't drink peppermint tea because of the word "tea" best not visit England, because they will not be able to eat food in the evening, because that's called "tea". In fact, the reason it's called a "tea" is because mealtime used to be the main event when people would drink that beverage -- a US-centric analog would be the "coffee table" in your living room. I grew up in a non-LDS household and we had a coffee table, but oddly enough, hardly anyone ever used it for drinking coffee! How about what used to be called "coffee cake"? It didn't have coffee in it, it was simply a pastry that was commonly eaten while drinking coffee (or tea for that matter). LDS pharisees should not have a low table sitting in their living room in front of the couch, because even if they don't call it a "coffee table" somebody else might and then there would be trouble, and what about your Temple Recommend now? I even knew a fellow LDS who called his "coffee table" a "postum table"!!Another important thing to remember, for all you pharisees out there, is that starting from the fact that tea is an infusion of plant material, i.e. plant material steeped in HOT water, then suddenly all kinds of things become OFF LIMITS. Soup, for example. What the heck is SOUP if it is not plant material steeped in HOT water!?!? It's TEA you pharisees!! Campbell's is against the WoW. And do you like beef stew? Sorry, it's likewise against the WoW, because, imagine that, it contains plant material steeped in HOT water! Chili, with or without beans, is likewise against the WoW. Without beans it is effectively CHILI TEA! With beans it's even worse! No, you gotta eat your veggies RAW. ALL of them. Because cooking them makes them into TEA!!!!And the Word of Wisdom is freaking NOT caffeine! It is coffee and (black) tea. Do not drink decaf, because it isn't the freaking caffeine, it is the freaking plant! Decaf coffee and tea are still coffee and tea. Get it through your thick skulls, pharisees!!! If it comes down to which components of coffee and tea are the reason for the ban, then why not WATER?? Or tannin? Or any of the other natural chemicals that make up these plants? Can we use a little LOGIC here?Golly this subject gets me all riled up. Edited January 18, 2012 by Stargazer 3
ERayR Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 That's what I mean ErayR - there is so much confusion in the church, in my experience about this. Is their modern (i.e. current counsel) from the Presidency on this? If the Word of Wisdom is really about treating your body well, then what is it about coffee and tea that is so bad if it's not the caffeine? I see these "power drinks" that people are using, and it is hard for me to understand what exactly is okay about them that they are not counted in WoW obediency?I don't know what it is about tea and coffee. It may be the cafine or it may be the tannic acids or a combination. I am very reluctant to drink any cafinated beverages. I drink very little soft drinks, maybe a dozen a year and only when there isn't something else, mainly because they some times affect me negatively. It is not about being commanded in all things but about using wisdom in all things, Hence Word of Wisdom. If it is not specifically forbidden you are technically ok but then on to the next step, is it wise. God gave you a brain and the right to personal revelation use them. To many people are looking for a justification for doing something they know is not right for them.
ERayR Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Then I should get to live the Spirit of the Law for the rest of the WoW and not worry if I want to enjoy a glass of wine every once in a while. It the Spirit of the Law right? TR still?Is that the spirit of the law or self justification?
ERayR Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) This is going to sound sassy. But what blessing? There have been thousands of people who have lived the WoW who have died because we are mortal in a imperfect world. Sometimes the blessing have to be seen now in this life, it's the only one we have.This is going to sound snippy but look around I am sure you can find some. Edited January 18, 2012 by ERayR
Nominee Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) This subject comes up so frequently one might come to the conclusion that Latter-day Saints are looking for strict rules to follow, as if they were the modern-day Christian equivalents of the Pharisees.Strict adherance to detailed guidelines was (and is) the hallmark of men looking beyond the scriptures in order to create ways to make themselves look "more holy than thou." In my humble opinion.Take the Law of Moses for example. Read the Pentateuch for your background. Then examine how various tenets of it are to be observed in today's modern observers, our dear friends the religous Jews."Not allowed to light a fire on the Sabbath" becomes "not allowed to flip a light switch (on OR off) on the Sabbath." This comes about because some rabbinical scholar at some time after the invention of electricity noticed that sometimes electricity makes a spark, and therefore it must be a form of fire, at least under the Law of Moses. So, there you are. Flipping a switch is lighting a fire.I suppose it's OK to leave a fire burning INTO the Sabbath, so if you want a room where you can read in after sundown on the Sabbath, you have to flip the switch before sundown and it must burn until the next sundown. Woe betide you if some oaf flips the light on in your bedroom before sundown and nobody notices until after sundown, then you either have to try to sleep in a lighted room or find a room where its dark.Another bit of rabbinical creativity results in observant Jews having to keep two separate sets of cooking utensils, one to cook meat dishes and the other to cook dishes containing milk and milk products (because thou shalt not cook a lamb in his own mother's milk). I don't know if it is OK to eat the two kinds of cooked food from off the same plate, or if you have to have two plates: one for the mashed potatoes and the other for the roast beef (mashed potatoes are made using milk, by the way). I hope you can mix meat and milk in your stomach. But that might not be Kosher, either.I'm sure that our Crazy Israeli, Volgadon, is going to come down on me like a ton of bricks because I probably got something wrong in the above paragraphs. My apologies in advance.The word "tea" originally meant the plant known as camelia sinensis ("chinese camelia") or black tea. But since the word "infusion" is too awkward for general use (that is what you are doing when you steep dried plant materials in hot water, making an infusion), the word "tea" crept into use in the place of "infusion". Nowadays, everything gets called "tea" whether it is black tea or not. This leads to the Pharisees among us deciding that herbal teas are against the WoW. According to these folks, peppermit tea is against the Wow because it has the dreaded "T" word in it.They ought to visit England, where the evening meal is frequently referred to as "tea". I remember when my family moved there for my Dad's employment, and the first LDS family (I was the only Mormon in my family) I visited invited me to stay for the evening meal. Except that they said "Would you like to stay for tea?" And I thought that maybe they weren't taking the WoW very seriously. Several days later I discovered that was simply an alternate use for the word, but those LDS Pharisees who can't drink peppermint tea because of the word "tea" best not visit England, because they will not be able to eat food in the evening, because that's called "tea". In fact, the reason it's called a "tea" is because mealtime used to be the main event when people would drink that beverage -- a US-centric analog would be the "coffee table" in your living room. I grew up in a non-LDS household and we had a coffee table, but oddly enough, hardly anyone ever used it for drinking coffee! How about what used to be called "coffee cake"? It didn't have coffee in it, it was simply a pastry that was commonly eaten while drinking coffee (or tea for that matter). LDS pharisees should not have a low table sitting in their living room in front of the couch, because even if they don't call it a "coffee table" somebody else might and then there would be trouble, and what about your Temple Recommend now? I even knew a fellow LDS who called his "coffee table" a "postum table"!!Another important thing to remember, for all you pharisees out there, is that starting from the fact that tea is an infusion of plant material, i.e. plant material steeped in HOT water, then suddenly all kinds of things become OFF LIMITS. Soup, for example. What the heck is SOUP if it is not plant material steeped in HOT water!?!? It's TEA you pharisees!! Campbell's is against the WoW. And do you like beef stew? Sorry, it's likewise against the WoW, because, imagine that, it contains plant material steeped in HOT water! Chili, with or without beans, is likewise against the WoW. Without beans it is effectively CHILI TEA! With beans it's even worse! No, you gotta eat your veggies RAW. ALL of them. Because cooking them makes them into TEA!!!!And the Word of Wisdom is freaking NOT caffeine! It is coffee and (black) tea. Do not drink decaf, because it isn't the freaking caffeine, it is the freaking plant! Decaf coffee and tea are still coffee and tea. Get it through your thick skulls, pharisees!!! If it comes down to which components of coffee and tea are the reason for the ban, then why not WATER?? Or tannin? Or any of the other natural chemicals that make up these plants? Can we use a little LOGIC here?Golly this subject gets me all riled up. Calm down *pat on the back and a kind smile given*, calm down. You are going to hurt yourself. You are right. See my post #6, I agree with you completely. Volgadon is probably going to have some words for you. edit: whoops, I meant to say my post #19 Edited January 18, 2012 by Nominee
CV75 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I agree! I totally agree. I hope it comes across that I agree because I do! Absolutely--I think i grabbed it off your post!
aspire Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Is that the spirit of the law or self justification?No. Sometimes I think it's rationalization.
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