The Real "Word Of Wisdom"

[Wants2know]

Ok… to take a piece from another thread… I want to know what others do with keeping the keep the word of wisdom? In reading another post, I'm hearing that there are some out there who have a lot of faith, love and commitment to the church but on occasion have a glass of wine or tea. My husband and were recently talking to the branch president about the coffee/tea thing… and he admitted that if he could drink coffee he would live off it, but instead he drinks mountain dew (personal aside: yuck). So it leaves us pondering is it the caffeine in coffee that is to be avoided (ergo decaf is ok?), and if so, should caffeinated sodas be off limits? In talking with others in the church, including missionaries, I've found there is great divide on exactly how this is interpreted and lived. What do you do? What do you think?

[altersteve]

I've always had the opinion that decaf coffee is okay to drink. But I don't base that off anything except my own reasoning and I could be wrong.

[CV75]

I want to know what others do with keeping the keep the word of wisdom?

I like ideas shared in the Heber J. Grant Teachings of the Presidents of the Church:

In this revelation [D&C 89], the Lord prohibits the consumption of alcohol, tobacco, and hot drinks, which latter-day prophets have defined to be tea and coffee (see D&C 89:5–9). The Lord also says that wholesome herbs, grains, and fruits are “ordained for the use of man,” along with meat, which is “to be used sparingly” (see D&C 89:10–17). In addition to exhorting the Saints to obey this specific counsel, President Grant and other Presidents of the Church have spoken out against the use of harmful or habit-forming substances such as illegal drugs. President Grant said, “The Lord does not want you to use any drug that creates an appetite for itself.” http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=2e4d97a7c1d20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=da135f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

I would count abstinence from tea, coffee, tobacco products, and alcoholic drinks and drug abuse as sufficient observance of the Word of Wisdom. Fundamentally, I believe it’s not necessarily about the science but about obedience to a commandment with a promise.

I think abstaining from anything beyond that (such as caffeinated drinks) is a personal interpretation of the “spirit of the law” that will have to be accounted for along with any other decision we make in life, by the standard of the thoughts and intents of the heart and the light we have, not judging others—some people go way too far with it, some not far enough.

Personally, I avoid caffeinated drinks but that's more because I don't like the effects. I don't consider chocolate in any sweetened form or the small amounts of alcohol in desserts, cooking, etc. to be a Word of Wisdom issue. My biggest issue is when someone wants to belabor their unsolicited point of view for my benefit!

[freedom_of_religion]

I was going to start a brand new thread to address this as well, you read my mind. That is where I also have issues. The branch president justifies drinking the heavily concentrated caffeinated Mountain Dew, but won't drink a cup of coffee (which probably has far less caffeine). What if I take two no-doze tablets to keep me alert? Or a migraine pill full of caffeine?

I addressed this in another thread, but what about eating meat sparingly? Is the transgression of eating meat every day the same as if I had a glass of wine/tea every day? Technically they both violate the WoW. My wife feels that the WoW, although good in theory was not a commandment from God, but a law made by Joseph Smith after Emma got tired of the brethren kept spitting tobacco on her floor.

I understand that addictive substances can become so addicting that a person can't stop if they wanted to. Same with gambling and all sorts of other things, even becoming addicted to video games. What if I'm one of those that can drink a glass of wine without becoming an alcoholic? Or if I can buy a lottery ticket and not become addicted to gambling? Should we be free to judge our own weakness'? Were the tea's and coffee's made in Joseph's day more crude and not as refined as today? The WoW is difficult for a lot of us LDS. I would tend to believe if the General Authorities were to amend the WoW to include all caffeinated drinks and chocolate they would be in for a riot (-:

[Wants2know]

I've always had the opinion that decaf coffee is okay to drink. But I don't base that off anything except my own reasoning and I could be wrong.

I know a few members who drink nonalcoholic beer? What's your take on that? Do you feel that you can answer the temple rec questions positively drinking decaf? (I would love to drink decaf again). Lol.

[Nominee]

I do not personally know a single LDS that thinks that decaf coffee is okay! And my mouth drops that it could be justified. Caffeine has nothing to do with why we follow the word of wisdom. I don't understand where anyone even got that idea from ~ except from their own mind, but not from the church. What we do get from the church is "don't drink coffee or tea." period. What has been added to that revelation is what has been said above ~ President Grant said, “The Lord does not want you to use any drug that creates an appetite for itself.” That does not change the "no coffee" word to "no coffee if you feel your want for it is an addiction" but rather it adds soda, sugar, etc. to the list of things you should not be taking in if it proves to be an addiction for you. Further, if you are justifying your love of coffee by the act of drinking decaf so you can have it, it is an addiction. So now you have "don't drink coffee" and "don't use any drug that creates an appetite for itself" working against your justification. The word of wisdom says "don't drink coffee" it does not say "don't drink coffee unless it is decaf!"

Edited January 18, 2012 by Nominee

[BookofMormonLuvr]

My Opinion:

We should avoid anything with toxic and addictive chemicals. Our bodies are Temples of the Living God and we should treat them as such. We should try, as much as possible, to eat those things which regenerate without taking the life of the thing (feed our life with life)... Fruits, veggies, animal by-products (milke, eggs, cheese etc...) We should avoid the comsuming of flesh as much as we can.

All things easier said then done.

[ERayR]

Ok… to take a piece from another thread… I want to know what others do with keeping the keep the word of wisdom? In reading another post, I'm hearing that there are some out there who have a lot of faith, love and commitment to the church but on occasion have a glass of wine or tea. My husband and were recently talking to the branch president about the coffee/tea thing… and he admitted that if he could drink coffee he would live off it, but instead he drinks mountain dew (personal aside: yuck). So it leaves us pondering is it the caffeine in coffee that is to be avoided (ergo decaf is ok?), and if so, should caffeinated sodas be off limits? In talking with others in the church, including missionaries, I've found there is great divide on exactly how this is interpreted and lived. What do you do? What do you think?

It is not the cafine. If it was then cafinated soft drinks would be off limits. The word of wisdom says coffee and tea not just coffee and tea without cafine.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Clarification:

The Word of Wisdom says "hot drinks", not "coffee and tea". Though I don't disagree that those two things fall within the category of "hot drinks".

[Nominee]

Doctrine and Covenants 89:9 says we shouldn’t drink “hot drinks.” The only official interpretation of this term is the statement made by early Church leaders that it means tea and coffee. Caffeine is not specifically mentioned as the reason not to drink these drinks.

http://lds.org/new-era/2008/04/to-the-point/is-there-anything-wrong-with-drinking-sodas-with-caffeine-in-them-is-caffeine-bad-the-word-of-wisdom-doesnt-mention-it?lang=eng&query=caffeine

[ERayR]

I know a few members who drink nonalcoholic beer? What's your take on that? Do you feel that you can answer the temple rec questions positively drinking decaf? (I would love to drink decaf again). Lol.

The word of wisdom again says strong drink. Is non-alcholic beer strong drink? You will have to decide for yourself.

Personally I think coffee in any of its forms is off limits.

[ERayR]

Clarification:

The Word of Wisdom says "hot drinks", not "coffee and tea". Though I don't disagree that those two things fall within the category of "hot drinks".

That was defined by the church as coffee and tea.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Since "hot drinks" are mentioned in the part of the section dealing with harmful and addictive substances (strong drinks, tobacco) I must come to the conclusion that it is because those "hot drinks" contain harmful and addictive substances, of which caffeine is one. So I DO believe the presence of caffeine is a major factor is the Lord's counsel to avoid such things.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

That was defined by the church as coffee and tea.

You say "tea" but that is very generic, does that include herbal tea?

[Nominee]

The discussion pamphlet that the missionaries use to teach investigators on the Word of Wisdom says this:

What Is The Word of Wisdom?

The Lord revealed the Word of Wisdom to the Prophet Joseph Smith. In this revelation we are warned to abstain from alcohol, tobacco, and hot drinks, meaning coffee and tea. Later prophets have taught that we should not use any substance that contains illegal drugs or harmful and addictive substances. The Word of Wisdom also teaches that we should eat meat sparingly and that we should eat grains, fruits, and vegetables.

I bring this up 1) to show what the church teaches but more importantly (if that is possible) 2) to bring attention to how the importance of living the gospel according to church direction is important to the salvation of all, not just me, or you. Think of the example we set for the investigator or new member who has just learned the "right way" ~think about the damage our hypocrisy may cause to someone else's testimony as well as our own. CHOOSE THE RIGHT. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

What I am gathering from this topic concerning tea is ALL tea should be off limits according to the parameters set here...

- "It is not about the caffeine"

- "The church says no "tea"

So if it is not about what is contained in the tea, and the church uses the very generic term "tea", you can only conculde the herbal tea is off-limits also. I find that hard to believe. So let's be realistic and admit it is about the caffeine and other harmful stubstances.

[ERayR]

Since "hot drinks" are mentioned in the part of the section dealing with harmful and addictive substances (strong drinks, tobacco) I must come to the conclusion that it is because those "hot drinks" contain harmful and addictive substances, of which caffeine is one. So I DO believe the presence of caffeine is a major factor is the Lord's counsel to avoid such things.

And that is OK. Just remember there are addictive substances that are very useful for limited use as medications.

[ERayR]

You say "tea" but that is very generic, does that include herbal tea?

My personal interpretation. If it is drunk hot yes. Otherwise ?

[Nominee]

You say "tea" but that is very generic, does that include herbal tea?

The fact that it is very generic should tell us that it does include herbal tea. Wouldn't it work that way in any other circumstance? If someone says don't step out in front of cars, that is very generic, does that include trucks or SUVs?

That being said, I do know LDS that drink herbal tea, I am one of them. Here is the reasoning: There is such a thing as tea. Black tea, green tea, red tea, white tea is made with tea leaves. Peppermint, for example, is not tea. It is peppermint. Made from peppermint. Our society has decided that anything they put in a little square paper to dig is called tea. That does not make it tea. My children, 10 and 11, set the rule in our home. My daughter explained that regardless of what may be in the little baggie, it appears to be tea. She went on to lecture me about the buried swords and the appearance of evil. I am no longer allowed to drink anything that appears to be tea. I can grow my own peppermint though. My son insists that I call it "peppermint herbies" instead of peppermint tea. Because again, the word tea is misleading ~ it isn't tea.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Nominee

[BookofMormonLuvr]

And that is OK. Just remember there are addictive substances that are very useful for limited use as medications.

Agreed, which is why Paul told Timothy to drink some wine for a stomach issues.

[aspire]

I would count abstinence from tea, coffee, tobacco products, and alcoholic drinks and drug abuse as sufficient observance of the Word of Wisdom. Fundamentally, I believe it’s not necessarily about the science but about obedience to a commandment with a promise.

I agree with you, but the LDS as a society side step around it like mad, consuming caffeinated, and/or energy drinks. I know more than one who drinks Mountain Dew, or Monster in the early am to get them going. These products are far worse for the body than coffee or tea but you can still have a Temple Recommend. If the WoW is truly a commandment for our health then it needs to be revamped for our times.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

My personal interpretation. If it is drunk hot yes. Otherwise ?

I assume you don't drink hot chocolate either?

[Nominee]

I agree with you, but the LDS as a society side step around it like mad, consuming caffeinated, and/or energy drinks. I know more than one who drinks Mountain Dew, or Monster in the early am to get them going. These products are far worse for the body than coffee or tea but you can still have a Temple Recommend. If the WoW is truly a commandment for our health then it needs to be revamped for our times.

There has been plenty said to "be revamped for our times."

Follow this link:

http://lds.org/searc...y=energy+drinks

Edit:

As far as the Word of Wisdom as a commandment goes, we have this:

However, we should keep in mind this counsel given by President Boyd K. Packer: “The Word of Wisdom was ‘given for a principle with promise’ (D&C 89:3). … A principle is an enduring truth, a law, a rule you can adopt to guide you in making decisions. Generally principles are not spelled out in detail. Members write in asking if this thing or that is against the Word of Wisdom. … We teach the principle together with the promised blessings. There are many habit-forming, addictive things that one can drink or chew or inhale or inject which injure both body and spirit which are not mentioned in the revelation. … Obedience to counsel will keep you on the safe side of life” (“The Word of Wisdom: The Principle and the Promises,” Ensign, May 1996, 17–18).

Edited January 18, 2012 by Nominee

[ERayR]

Agreed, which is why Paul told Timothy to drink some wine for a stomach issues.

Just as long as one doesn"t become a hypochondriac.

[ERayR]

I assume you don't drink hot chocolate either?

Warm not hot.