The Real "Word Of Wisdom"

[CV75]

I even knew a fellow LDS who called his "coffee table" a "postum table"!!

TMI! TMI!

[CV75]

Chili, with or without beans, is likewise against the WoW. Without beans it is effectively CHILI TEA! With beans it's even worse!

I think for some, abstinence from chili would be much appreciated by all around them...

[aspire]

You say "get to" like it is a good thing you are being denied. How is that? Why is that? It's a word of wisdom. It is a blessing that shows the love Heavenly Father has for us.

I had an answer, and my computer ate it. So I'll try again. I guess my thoughts have more to do with the spirit of the law and the letter.

My answer isn't coming out right. I'll try later. Thanks Nominee.

[Nominee]

Reading through this thread, I am concerned with how many "if, and, & buts" I am hearing regarding the Word of Wisdom and the message that may be sending to all but especially to those outside the LDS faith seeking to understand.

e.g.

I've always had the opinion that decaf coffee is okay to drink.

What if I'm one of those that can drink a glass of wine without becoming an alcoholic?

I drink green tea cold on occasions...I believe the Word of Wisdom shouldn't be part of the temple recommend process and should be an encouraged guideline.

I want to post some of my recent personal experience regarding the Word of Wisdom so that my view and the view of others like me can be read and contemplated here as well. But first I want to address the question about the spirit of the law and what it means to me. If you have the spirit with you and are listening to it then it is in my opinion and experience that regardless of what extent the letter of the law is written, the spirit will never guide you toward that which brings harm or displeases Heavenly Father. ever.

Now, recently I had a moment of weakness and I drank coffee. Because I had not reconciled or repented come Sunday, I did not participate in taking the sacrament. That's right, I could not justify it in my mind. I also kept myself from going to the temple (even though I hold a recommend that allows it) because again, my repentance process was not complete. I felt that my actions were serious enough to be taken to the Bishop. So I did. Yes, I felt it was necessary to let the Bishop know that I had broken the Word of Wisdom by drinking coffee. I thought it not enough to ask forgiveness quietly and alone, keeping what I had done to myself. I consider it to be a transgression of a serious nature. Why do I think it is that serious? Because I know better. Because I made my choice deliberately, knowing that I was doing was wrong. Why was it wrong? Because of all the covenants I made with my Father in Heaven. Because I said that I wouldn't do it. Because I did it secretly. Because I gave up honesty and uprightness when I made this choice. And because it was bad for my body but in the moment I didn't care. I didn't care that my body is a Temple of God.

So not every LDS lives in the gray area. Not every LDS wants to justify choices that may go a little or a lot against what we are not just taught but more importantly what we commit to. In my opinion, if you have the gift of the Holy Spirit and choose to hear it then the spirit of the law is no different than the letter of the law and further clarification from church leaders shouldn't really be needed.

Add: It isn't just about what I should be able to get away with doing, it is about my desires aligning with the desires of my Heavenly Father.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Nominee

[BlueDreams]

Ok… to take a piece from another thread… I want to know what others do with keeping the keep the word of wisdom? In reading another post, I'm hearing that there are some out there who have a lot of faith, love and commitment to the church but on occasion have a glass of wine or tea. My husband and were recently talking to the branch president about the coffee/tea thing… and he admitted that if he could drink coffee he would live off it, but instead he drinks mountain dew (personal aside: yuck). So it leaves us pondering is it the caffeine in coffee that is to be avoided (ergo decaf is ok?), and if so, should caffeinated sodas be off limits? In talking with others in the church, including missionaries, I've found there is great divide on exactly how this is interpreted and lived. What do you do? What do you think?

What do I do: I don't drink coffee or tea, alcohol of any sort, and don't smoke/abuse any other drug. I rarely caffeinated soda...which has nothing to do with some outright i rarely drink soda period. I avoid processed sugar usually. I've been a vegetarian for ten years (which has dramatically changed my diet in strange ways....like not wanting sugar or fatty foods much at all). I love herbal teas, especially for minor health concerns. In short I'm a health freak just short of a hippie and I know it.

What do I think: the basics are simple: no coffee, no tea, no alcohol, no abuse of drugs, and eat good things. I have a personal belief in allowing people to interpret as they see fit beyond that. I don't tell people what to to eat unless they ask me to. Any disagreement I have isn't really about me being on some higher spiritual ground, just basic health beliefs that I hold. And I likewise hope for the same courtesy.

With luv,

BD

[Stargazer]

What do I do: I don't drink coffee or tea, alcohol of any sort, and don't smoke/abuse any other drug. I rarely caffeinated soda...which has nothing to do with some outright i rarely drink soda period. I avoid processed sugar usually. I've been a vegetarian for ten years (which has dramatically changed my diet in strange ways....like not wanting sugar or fatty foods much at all). I love herbal teas, especially for minor health concerns. In short I'm a health freak just short of a hippie and I know it.

What do I think: the basics are simple: no coffee, no tea, no alcohol, no abuse of drugs, and eat good things. I have a personal belief in allowing people to interpret as they see fit beyond that. I don't tell people what to to eat unless they ask me to. Any disagreement I have isn't really about me being on some higher spiritual ground, just basic health beliefs that I hold. And I likewise hope for the same courtesy.

With luv,

BD

SPOT ON. Abso-freaking-lutely Perfect. Everyone: listen to Blue Dreams! She has it going ON!!

[Nominee]

SPOT ON. Abso-freaking-lutely Perfect. Everyone: listen to Blue Dreams! She has it going ON!!

I concur. But I'm out of rep points. Thanks BlueDreams!

[Cobalt-70]

That study was falsified.

Lest we interpret the discrediting of Dr. Das' research as support for the Word of Wisdom, he was not the only source of studies linking the antioxidants in wine with heart health. While his own research has been discredited, the findings from other similar studies still stand.

[Cobalt-70]

I think there are two "Word of Wisdoms." The one in the D&C is not the one referred to in the temple recommend interview. For example, nobody is going to be kept from the temple for eating too much meat. Likewise, one can be kept from the temple for taking psychoactive herbs such as cannabis, or drinking beer or other "mild drinks," which the D&C version actually says are okay. But the temple recommend version of the Word of Wisdom is still purposely left pretty vague. That's why it ultimately has to be left to the conscience and discretion of the individual Mormon. One Mormon may answer "no" to the temple recommend question if they eat a tiramisu, while another may in full conscience answer "yes." One Mormon may answer "no" if they drink decaffeinated coffee, while another may answer "yes."

[frankenstein]

If coffee and tea are violations due to caffeine the chocolate is also a violation. and any attempt to claim concetration of caffiene so that chocolate is not a violation is simply further creating a gospel unto yourself

When we LDS can stop adding to and taking away from what we are taught then we might be ready for more.

[Stargazer]

If coffee and tea are violations due to caffeine the chocolate is also a violation. and any attempt to claim concetration of caffiene so that chocolate is not a violation is simply further creating a gospel unto yourself

When we LDS can stop adding to and taking away from what we are taught then we might be ready for more.

Good point! Precisely what I was trying to allude to when I was railing about phariseeism.

[frankenstein]

That's what I mean ErayR - there is so much confusion in the church, in my experience about this. Is their modern (i.e. current counsel) from the Presidency on this? If the Word of Wisdom is really about treating your body well, then what is it about coffee and tea that is so bad if it's not the caffeine? I see these "power drinks" that people are using, and it is hard for me to understand what exactly is okay about them that they are not counted in WoW obediency?

You can rest assurd that the LDS Church has not issued a proclamation condemning the consumption of caffiene, you can also rest assure that the Church has never issued a proclamation on why coffee and tea - the reason why coffee and tea is simply because that is what God said.

Why was pork not fit for eating until after Christs death? The answer is God said. When we make up reasons why we take upon ourselves to speak for God.

[Stargazer]

You can rest assurd that the LDS Church has not issued a proclamation condemning the consumption of caffiene, you can also rest assure that the Church has never issued a proclamation on why coffee and tea - the reason why coffee and tea is simply because that is what God said.

Why was pork not fit for eating until after Christs death? The answer is God said. When we make up reasons why we take upon ourselves to speak for God.

What is up with you today? You are making an uncommonly large amount of sense.

Of course, since I agree with you on this fully, of course you're making sense.

On other subjects, well, perhaps not so much...

[bluebell]

You say "tea" but that is very generic, does that include herbal tea?

It doesn't include herbal tea because herbal tea has no tea in it.

It's just herbs that has been steeped in hot water. Tea contains tea leaves.

[frankenstein]

What is up with you today? You are making an uncommonly large amount of sense.

Of course, since I agree with you on this fully, of course you're making sense.

On other subjects, well, perhaps not so much...

I have my moments. On my mission I began to understand the damage that is done by members making things up as for "why this or why that".

The simple answer, yet hardest to follow is "God said"

I appreciate lehi's (lesellers) position on caffeine that he has posted before which is he does not consume it because he knows many people think LDS are not to consume it, and he does not to make a bad impression on the LDS faith; even it means he misses out on the necture known as Dr Pepper.

I tried explaining the WOW to a nonmember friend and a week later I hear he is telling people I can not drink warm milk. It seems human nature to want to know the "why" but for religion many times the "why" simply appears to obedience.

Edited January 19, 2012 by frankenstein

[blackstrap]

I am hopelessly addicted to a chemical substance.I can not go more than a few hours without it.I have a strong physical reaction if I go too long without consuming it. At times I get so desparate that I must have it and disregard any other chemical contaminates that may be present. I do know that ,even in its purest form ,it is toxic if injested in too large of quantities.I just know I will die without it. What can I do? It is such a large part of me! ... and yet,I find no mention of it in the WoW.

[Duncan]

I am hopelessly addicted to a chemical substance.I can not go more than a few hours without it.I have a strong physical reaction if I go too long without consuming it. At times I get so desparate that I must have it and disregard any other chemical contaminates that may be present. I do know that ,even in its purest form ,it is toxic if injested in too large of quantities.I just know I will die without it. What can I do? It is such a large part of me! ... and yet,I find no mention of it in the WoW.

hmmmmm are you talking about water?

[blackstrap]

The substance is extremely dangerous when heated or inhaled.It is occasionally called by its chemical name dihydrogen monoxide. I strongly recommend reading up on the dilitarious effects of this chemical when abused.

[Duncan]

The substance is extremely dangerous when heated or inhaled.It is occasionally called by its chemical name dihydrogen monoxide. I strongly recommend reading up on the dilitarious effects of this chemical when abused.

that's what I thought! H20!

[Grundelwalken]

This is going to sound sassy. But what blessing? There have been thousands of people who have lived the WoW who have died because we are mortal in a imperfect world. Sometimes the blessing have to be seen now in this life, it's the only one we have.

Blessings of health, wisdom, knowledge, hidden treasures..... Maybe most importantly, the access of the Holy Ghost because our bodies are unimpeded by substances that reduce our ability to feel/hear the Spirit. MW

[Grundelwalken]

I concur. But I'm out of rep points. Thanks BlueDreams!

I put one in for you (now that I know how) and I agree wholeheartedly. MW

[BlueDreams]

This is going to sound sassy. But what blessing? There have been thousands of people who have lived the WoW who have died because we are mortal in a imperfect world. Sometimes the blessing have to be seen now in this life, it's the only one we have.

I meant to address this as well, but didn't have time to. The blessing you mention here is too individualistic. You can live the WoW and still get cancer (though one could argue probably a less volatile form and have a higher likelihood of recovery). I would personally point out that the blessings are not meant to be just for the individual but the society at large. (the beginning reasoning in DC89 isn't specifically about health but safety) Many international problems have arisen due to western society's excessive desire for alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and tea (not noting the other half about food). Many problems are occuring within developing nations from the use and exploitation of these. Next to the few benifits from green tea and red wine, most of these products are useless (at best) beyond becoming a cash crop. Having cash crops mass produced in societies that rely on subsistance crops for food has helped to exacerbate famine. Wars have started over distribution. Death has been excessive. And entire communities are detrimentally hit by the use of alcohol and drugs. Worldwide, I feel secure to say that we'd be better if these things simply didn't exist as they currently do (IMHO).

I put one in for you (now that I know how) and I agree wholeheartedly. MW

So I've been gone for a very long time....what are rep points?

With luv,

Bd

Edited January 19, 2012 by BlueDreams

[Mark Beesley]

Marijuana should be legal for anyone who foolishly wants to use it. Freedom to use "recreational' drugs is as important as freedom of religion.

And, besides, the "War on Drugs" is too costly in terms of lives lost to prison, deaths, treasure, families destroyed by prosecutions and imprisonments, and terror (as in Mexico as we speak). Prohibition has never worked (some people still use drugs, use prostitutes, and do everything else the state forbids, and always will), and while it is laudable to want to protect children (and even adults) from the influences of drug dealers, pimps, and french fries, the plain fact is that it just does not work.

Lehi

I am thrilled that you and I can agree on something!

[Brade]

President Grant said, “The Lord does not want you to use any drug that creates an appetite for itself.” http://lds.org/ldsor...0004d82620aRCRD

Ok, sure. Buuuuuut, the Church's authorities will let you attend the temple as a habitual caffeinated soda drinker but not as a, say, moderate coffee and tea drinker.

[mactechnm]

Just my personal opinion based upon my understanding of modern day scripture, as provided by Joseph Smith Jr, D & C, and other Modern Day Prophets' words since J.S. Jr.... This is my take on the Word of Wisdom:

The WoW says that we should abstain from Coffee, Tea, other "Hot Drinks". Now, that can obviously be interpreted by 14 million people in 14 million different ways. Hot Drink could mean Hot Water, Warm Milk, Hot Chocolate, etc. People take this to extremes, just to err on the side of caution. And why only hot drinks? What about cold tea? I mean, seriously! People also say that Soda, Chocolate, etc, can also be addictive, and therefore are against the WoW. I generally agree, that if ANY substance or action is addictive or harmful to you as an individual (or illegal), it should be avoided. For me, I drink one Mt. Dew a day in the morning, when I get to work. The caffeine helps my ADD and stress reduction immensely. So I am not going to stress over whether I am breaking the WoW. My wife has a lot of health conditions, including Migraines, and she occasionally drinks a cup of coffee, and it helps reduce the headaches. I'm not worried about her salvation over this issue either.

I think too many people worry too much about "what is allowed and what isn't". Just use common sense. If it is known to be harmful, avoid it (unless, as I mentioned above, medical conditions). There are plenty of things that could be harmful. Driving to work could potentially kill me. Should I avoid driving?

I won't go into the aspect of whether there is any scientific proof that coffee and/or tea are harmful, because plenty of people here will say it doesn't matter, the Church tells us to avoid it, and we should obey. Well..... The Church once preached that Blacks were not worthy to be priesthood holders, but that changed, didn't it? Humans WILL make errors, including the Prophet and the 12. The Black issue is a huge example of that. But I digress down a different path...