Sealing, Does It Matter Who You Are Sealed To?

[Truth]

Does being sealed to the person(s) you are sealed definitively mean that will be the person you are sealed to in the CK? I can understand a couple that was divorced civilly in this life but the sealing is still intact. What of two people who just are unhappy with each other or the marriage was just not a good match? I am sure most have seen couples who stay together but obviously do not want to be together but are sealed. I think you can live righteously and be worthy of the CK but just that who you married on earth is not the right person for someone in the CK.

I am just curious if there is doctrine one way or another. I seem to recall President Kimball saying something to the effect that people should marry and if they strive together they can reach the CK. Maybe they can, but what if that is not the ideal person? What if the ideal person was not around? I guess the question would be if the CK is eternal happiness, wouldn't it be that the ideal spousal fits completely? I am assuming that there will be happiness, sometimes a person can later find that the person they married is not the best fit or the best for them.

I am assuming Adam and Jesus Christ got the ideal mates, what about the rest of mankind?

Just some musings while watching Netflix.

[KevinG]

Truth,

I think we often mistake a modern idea of romantic love and the notion that there is an ideal mate for reality, when it is more likely that any number of persons can be compatible if they work hard at learning to love each other. Love in this case is a verb, not a noun (like something you fall into and out of).

My wife and I were friends first, then we developed romantic feelings later in our relationship. At that point I proposed and we were married within weeks.

Our family panicked thinking we'd never last. They counseled us to be like her cousin who was engaged for years before marriage.

Once her cousin "fell out of romantic love" they divorced. 23 years later we're married because we worked at it.

There were times when we weren't very attractive to each other, we got older and fatter, the kids took so much time, we were tired, we went through challenges... yet the fact that we had an underlying friendship and were blessed enough to know we had to WORK at LOVING each other kept the fires burning. I'm a doughy middle aged man and shes a large middle aged woman. We're still tired and cranky at times. Yet when I get to take her out on a Friday night I get to look into the eyes of someone who has been through heaven and hell with me and stood beside me in all things, and I am soooooooo deeply in love with her. When we are intimate I feel like a greek god.

We did not find the ideal mate... we worked together to be the ideal mates. The best part is we probably will be sexy and lean when we're resurrected, but the most important part of our relationship is the partnership we built through our testing and being tested together.

(Sappy and churchy I know... but true)

[Nominee]

I agree with DaddyG and I just want to say "awww!"

I understand the ideal mate to be what each of us have the opportunity to become for someone else, not what we identify somebody else to be for us.

[Truth]

Daddy, the very thing you are saying is one thing that to me begs the question. If you have to work at it and it does not necessarily come naturally and continuously, then it does not seem like the ideal marriage. Even if you do work at it, at least for mortal life but is not what a person wants or needs for an eternity of happiness and marital bliss, then what? When you hear many wonder what they were thinking it getting married or in marrying a particular person, it makes one wonder.

A friend, a member, has the idea that as long as you are sealed, who you are sealed to and happy with in CK will be sorted to the right person. Frankly, this sounds quite appealing, but not so sure of a doctrinal thing other than heaven is supposed to be a place of eternal happiness.

[Freedom]

There is no such thing as an ideal mate. What if you meet this perfect person and they get cancer or get killed in a car accident at 22. Are you therefore destined to be single? There are certainly personalities that are incompatible, but God will not reveal to you ho you should marry. He will give his endorsement however. Falling out of love is a euphemism for 'I'm too selfish and self absorbed to care about you, so I'm going to go look for someone who will give me sex without any commitment'.

[Truth]

And if you receive an endorsement and it turns out bad? I have wondered about that. I am going to assume free agency will be the natural response. I find that interesting as my best friend absolutely felt it was God's hand bringing he and his wife together, 25 years late, mostly rejection of him ended in divorce.

Sometimes I find the gospel clear and understandable, and other times I don't get it or it seems so unclear. So much of it seems just like random events, there is no meaning, and then for another there is nothing but meaning. If God gives an endorsement and the marriage is not right, a move for a new job that is a disaster, or the like, what is it?

[Ron Beron]

I've been married almost 36 years to an imperfect mate. She also married an imperfect mate. Strangely, we have ended up with an ideal marriage. No marriage whether sealed for time or for time and all eternity is an eternal marriage unless it is accompanied by the spirit of promise, which means, at least in the words of the church...

SPIRIT OF PROMISE SEALS THE RIGHTEOUS Date: 08/26/89 The Holy Spirit of Promise is the Holy Spirit promised the saints, or in other words, the Holy Ghost, according to Elder Joseph Fielding Smith. "This name-title is used in connection with the sealing and ratifying power of the Holy Ghost, that is, the power given Him to ratify and approve the righteous acts of men so that those acts will be binding on earth and in heaven. 'All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations,' must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise if they are to have 'efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.' (D&C 132:7.) "To seal is to ratify, to justify, or to approve. Thus an act which is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise is one which is ratified by the Holy Ghost; it is one which is approved by the Lord; and the person who has taken the obligation upon himself is justified by the Spirit in the thing he has done. The ratifying seal of approval is put upon an act only if those entering the contract are worthy as a result of personal righteousness to receive the divine approbation. "They 'are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.' (D&C 76:53.) If they are not just and true and worthy, the ratifying seal is withheld. "When any ordinance or contract is sealed by the Spirit, it is approved with a promise of reward, provided unrighteousness does not thereafter break the seal, remove the ratifying approval, and cause the loss of the promised blessing." (Quoted in A Companion to Your Study of the Doctrine and Covenants by Daniel H. Ludlow, Vol. 2, pp. 133-134.)

Sources: Sacred Truths of the Doctrine & Covenants by L.G. Otten and C.M. Caldwell, volume 2; Discourses of Brigham Young arranged by John A. Widtsoe; BYU Speeches of the Year (April 1960); Gospel Standards by Heber J. Grant; The Ensign (June 1975); A Companion to Your Study of the Doctrine and Covenants by Daniel H. Ludlow, Vol. 2.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Ron Beron

[Sine Saw Square]

Hi Truth. I get the sense from some of your comments that you are not yet married? I don't mean that to some how delegitimize your perspective but just to seek clarity in experience.

I am quite sure that you can't swap sealing partners in the CK. That is why who you are sealed to is probably the biggest decision one makes in life. Like you mention there are some couples which stay together despite years of hurt and estrangement, Living in such conditions does not seem very celestial to me- I don't know how that would be balanced in the eternities, but I trust that it will work out agreably for everyone involved. Isn't fostering and nurturing that nuptial relation part of what will make the CK heavenly?

Every marital relationship is unique. Though there is not a soul-mate, a singlular person best fit for you "out there", I count myself blessed to have found my "ideal". So it does happen. I knew she was from the first time we met. We were engagewith our 3rd date and married within 3 months. I know we're an unusual case. It's been amazing between us ever sense. While we don't have to "work" at loving each other or feeling passionate life throws you plenty of challenges that you, as a couple, have to "work" at together. What's made a difference for us is that we both put the others needs and desires before our own. Selflessness and forgiveness. If husband and wife both totally embrace those aspects of the Savior there's a lot more enjoyment and a lot less "work".

[Nominee]

"...but I trust that it will work out agreably for everyone involved."

I think trusting in this is a good idea. What about those of us that may not meet any mate in this mortal life to be sealed to? Our opportunity to reside in the CK is not taken from us because of a bad break. If we are worthy, we are promised every opportunity. If not in the mortal world than in the next. And on the other side of worthiness, we cannot piggyback the person we are sealed to into the CK!

I say worry about your own worthiness and trust in the Lord. A bad marriage for someone may just be their endurance challenge. If that is the case, don't let your spouses behavior or choices drag you down ~instead, remain worthy and do your best to lift them back up. Our best is what God expects of us not perfection. Trust the Lord will make sure that we each receive our just rewards. And again, a sealing is not an automatic ticket to the CK for either spouse. We must get there on our own individual merit.

[ERMD]

In the end, we will all be sealed to each other.

[ERayR]

Daddy, the very thing you are saying is one thing that to me begs the question. If you have to work at it and it does not necessarily come naturally and continuously, then it does not seem like the ideal marriage. Even if you do work at it, at least for mortal life but is not what a person wants or needs for an eternity of happiness and marital bliss, then what? When you hear many wonder what they were thinking it getting married or in marrying a particular person, it makes one wonder.

A friend, a member, has the idea that as long as you are sealed, who you are sealed to and happy with in CK will be sorted to the right person. Frankly, this sounds quite appealing, but not so sure of a doctrinal thing other than heaven is supposed to be a place of eternal happiness.

Why would work mean it was not happy?

Do you think God is happy with a great deal of what is going on in this creation (world)?

[ERayR]

Sometimes I find the gospel clear and understandable, and other times I don't get it or it seems so unclear. So much of it seems just like random events, there is no meaning, and then for another there is nothing but meaning. If God gives an endorsement and the marriage is not right, a move for a new job that is a disaster, or the like, what is it?

It is how we handle the random events that determines the outcome.

[Truth]

I think this is even more complicated by most being encouraged to marry early. More experience in life can help you understand what you want and need, more dating more time. Just wondering if there are answers. The whole wait and see what you get thing drives me nuts, I love definitive answers.

[Somebodyz]

And if you receive an endorsement and it turns out bad? I have wondered about that. I am going to assume free agency will be the natural response. I find that interesting as my best friend absolutely felt it was God's hand bringing he and his wife together, 25 years late, mostly rejection of him ended in divorce.

Sometimes I find the gospel clear and understandable, and other times I don't get it or it seems so unclear. So much of it seems just like random events, there is no meaning, and then for another there is nothing but meaning. If God gives an endorsement and the marriage is not right, a move for a new job that is a disaster, or the like, what is it?

If God gives his endorsement, it doesn't mean the couple don't have to work at it. If one or both of them are selfish, it won't work. I believe for divorce to happen, someone is being selfish. God's not saying it's going to be plain sailing or easy. If we have to work on ourselves, makes sense we have to work on our relationships also.

The OP question stood out to me, but because being adopted, I resent the fact, I should be sealed to my adoptive parents, rather than my own blood line. Can't bring myself to do this.

[Freedom]

And if you receive an endorsement and it turns out bad? I have wondered about that. I am going to assume free agency will be the natural response. I find that interesting as my best friend absolutely felt it was God's hand bringing he and his wife together, 25 years late, mostly rejection of him ended in divorce.

Sometimes I find the gospel clear and understandable, and other times I don't get it or it seems so unclear. So much of it seems just like random events, there is no meaning, and then for another there is nothing but meaning. If God gives an endorsement and the marriage is not right, a move for a new job that is a disaster, or the like, what is it?

It is experience and personal choice. I know a fellow who seemed to go from disaster to disaster despite his greatest efforts. In the pit of despair he finally looked at himself and was diagnosed with a mental illness. Once he came to terms with his limitations, he realized that his struggle was to master his mental limitations and look at the success he had despite his handicap, rather than to focus on what he though where failures. My children come to me looking for advise and I give it where I can. I tell my children to go for their goal knowing full well that they may fail bitterly. They will learn to pick themselves back up again and try again. We cannot control other peoples choices. Life is not about having the perfect family and job, it is about working out our salvation with the gifts and limitations God has given us. It is about making the best with what we have been given. Just because God endorses, for lack of a better word, a choice, does not mean that we have a responsibility to be up to the task mentally, physically, emotionally or otherwise.

You are asking a deep question, and I believe it is the type of question that most people do not come to terms with until much later in life when they have a chance to look back and reflect. It is the type of question best answered by someone who is in their golden years and who has had children and grand children, great sorrow and great trials. Only someone of that stature can truly hold the key to this puzzle. This person is not I.

[thesometimesaint]

Truth:

If you want the "perfect" mate be the "perfect" mate. Successful marriage is hard work. Perhaps the hardest work you will ever do in this life. You and your spouce are two different people, from differing backgrounds, temperments, likes, dislikes, abillities, etc., trying to make a marrige work. To become ONE. After 39 years of marriage it has beome somewhat easier. We've kinda had the rough spots bumped off of us. But she still surprizes every once in a while.

I'm reminded of an old story I heard years ago. This young couple were planning the "perfect" wedding, and have the "perfect" marriage.. They even convinced a General Authority that they knew to perform the Sealing. He told them at the conclusion of the ceremony that they were at the end of their problems. Well six months later they were bitterly complaining to that same General Authority that marriage was a lot harder than they thought, and he'd promised that they were at the end of their problems. With a tweenkle in his eye he simply replied. I never said which end.

Edited December 10, 2011 by thesometimesaint

[Calm]

The concept that there are two individuals that are such ideals mates for each other that the relationship does not require work, etc, that somehow they instinctually know what needs to be done for the other and will do it out of love ignores some fundamental principles of human life, including the fact that people change over time and if one assumes that one's partner will change in a mirror image to oneself, one is ignoring the role of agency and ending up instead with two individuals whose 'programming' runs their lives, reducing them to animals or machines.

[KevinG]

Blessings require sacrifice. Accomplishments require work. That is the nature of things.

My wife has sacrificed greatly for me. I have sacrificed greatly for her.

Love means we were happy to do that for each other even if we weren't happy about the work involved.

Again - love is not something you fall into and out of. It is a verb and something you do. If both people in a marriage have this outlook then their marriage will achieve perfection and be celestial. If neither spouse has this attitude then no matter how inspired the match was or compatible they were to start, the marriage is going to be built on a weak foundation.

In my opinion, if a couple expects things to just naturally fall into place without working at it- they will not be making it to the celestial kingdom to swap spouses in the first place. Those who build a marriage meet for celestial glory will not be wanting to swap.

Those who are willing to sacrifice, work and love but do not receive reciprocity will be provided for, but that is an entirely different situation.

Edited December 11, 2011 by DaddyG

[CV75]

Just some musings while watching Netflix.

Must have been a great movie like "Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf?"

Priesthood sealings are only as definite as the validation the Holy Spirit of Promise renders them, so they are only as definite as the good faith of the spouses involved in keeping their covenants. All the permutations of unhappiness related to this have to do with a lack of good faith and the resultant ineligibility for validation. Fortunately we can repent of a lack of good faith. It is an extremely dangerous thing to judge a spouse as “not the right person,” or “not the ideal,” including most of the “but what-ifs” situations, but the most egregious ad damaging bad-faith actions need not be tolerated. Christ can make people ideal and we are not to judge them unless we are “ideal.” In Christ, anyone can be the ideal mate, and this is a most worthwhile goal of temple-married people. This includes not pressuring someone else to be ideal by our own imperfect standards.

[TAO]

0.o, so many posts to "+".

Go Daddy G! That was an AWESOME post! =D

Edited December 11, 2011 by TAO

[Sine Saw Square]

I love the advice given David Copperfield by his Aunt Betsey on e subject of how to treat your spouse:

'These are early days, Trot,' she pursued, 'and Rome was not built in a day, nor in a year. You have chosen freely for yourself'; a cloud passed over her face for a moment, I thought; 'and you have chosen a very pretty and a very affectionate creature. It will be your duty, and it will be your pleasure too - of course I know that; I am not delivering a lecture - to estimate her (as you chose her) by the qualities she has, and not by the qualities she may not have. The latter you must develop in her, if you can. And if you cannot, child,' here my aunt rubbed her nose, 'you must just accustom yourself to do without 'em. But remember, my dear, your future is between you two. No one can assist you; you are to work it out for yourselves. This is marriage, Trot; and Heaven bless you both, in it, for a pair of babes in the wood as you are!'

[LeSellers]

I think this is even more complicated by most being encouraged to marry early. More experience in life can help you understand what you want and need, more dating more time.

But, unless you're suggesting that men do this, while women marry at age 18 or younger, both potential mates will develop an unhealthy and undesirable familiarity with being single. They will not develop the habit of relying on their marriage partner, they will be literally too independent to be happily married.

A couple should grow together, but they emplace strong barriers to that growth when their personalities have become rigid over the time they are single. That's one reason I believe we have seen such a surge in the divorce rates of those countries where marriage (if entered into at all) has been delayed until the late twenties or thirties. Men want their "boys' nights out", and women have their equivalents. They may love their spouses, but can't stand being with them.

Further, by waiting, children become more a problem and less a blessing. Two people who are already too independent feel further restrictions on their lives too confining. So the result is fewer children, even no children at all.

I say, "Marry young. Marry well, but marry young. Become the spouse you have to be to entice your spouse to become the spouse you want."

Lehi

Married at 22 to a "child" of 19, father of seven (fourteen when we count the children-in-law—and we always do), "GrampaLe" to 28 (and counting). It's been forty-one years since we knelt at the altar and answered, "Yes" to the question, "Do you ...?" I know whereof I speak.