Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 On Friday of last week one of my granddaughters was baptized. The Sunday before that I taught the Gospel Essentials class the lesson on baptism. This Sunday the 27th I taught concerning the “Gift of the Holy Ghost”.There are many doctrines in the world, but I know of no one who performs this ordinance; even though it is taught in the Bible. I used these scriptures for the class because often people cite the writings of Paul that this (Gift) ...nor baptism is needed for salvation.The older I grow the more it seems that the modern evangelical churches are moving away for the Bible and have reduced it to John 3:16. Not all but many.Here is the scripture…note who gave the “Gift of the Holy Ghost” by the “Laying on of hands”.Acts 19: 3-63 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.What has happened why don’t other churches still do this?
Senator Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 What has happened why don’t other churches still do this?Have you ever known where any LDS confirmation has led to someone speaking in tongues, and prophesying?
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 1, 2011 Author Posted December 1, 2011 Have you ever known where any LDS confirmation has led to someone speaking in tongues, and prophesying?No...but that is not a requirement, it sometimes is a result. But there have been many instances in the Church of such things.
Nominee Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Have you ever known where any LDS confirmation has led to someone speaking in tongues, and prophesying?Are you, in other words, questioning whether the gift of the Holy Ghost is real based on if it proves itself in the moment of arrival?
Log Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 It may also be pointed out that it is not necessarily the case that the gift is received when the ordinance is performed.
Rivers Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Other Christian churches still believe in the gift of the Holy Ghost. They just don't practice the laying on of hands part.
KevinG Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Have you ever known where any LDS confirmation has led to someone speaking in tongues, and prophesying?All of them where the Priesthood holder giving the blessing is listening to the Holy Spirit and dictating the blessing in the tongue of the recipient so they can receive counsel.I was blessed to perform this ordinance two weeks ago and did so with the gift of prophesy. There were many things given to the young lady I confirmed and a few others I saw but felt constrained not to reveal at this time because it was the place of her patriarch to do so in the future.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 1, 2011 Author Posted December 1, 2011 Other Christian churches still believe in the gift of the Holy Ghost. They just don't practice the laying on of hands part.So they believe in receiving without ordinances and contrary to the Bible?
Senator Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Are you, in other words, questioning whether the gift of the Holy Ghost is real based on if it proves itself in the moment of arrival?How do know it has arrived otherwise?
KevinG Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 How do know it has arrived otherwise?...still small voice.
Senator Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 All of them where the Priesthood holder giving the blessing is listening to the Holy Spirit and dictating the blessing in the tongue of the recipient so they can receive counsel.Of course I was refering to the recipient of the laying on of hands, which is what the quoted scripture was refering to as well.
Senator Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 ...still small voice.Yes, I'm familiar with that.
KevinG Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Of course I was refering to the recipient of the laying on of hands, which is what the quoted scripture was refering to as well....of course if they are ready to receive the same visions and understanding they do. I've been on both ends of the blessing and found when I'm sufficiently repentant and faithful amazing visions open up to me.I recommend spending time seeking these blessings for yourself (if you have not - I have no way of knowing) as opposed to questioning others if they exist. As an agnistic doubter turned fithful TBM I can attest that the former is so much more edifying than the latter.
KevinG Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Perhaps you should explain exactly how you think the gift of tongues and gift of prophecy should manifest themselves? There may be a misconception here that is preventing you from seeing these blessings as they occur.
Senator Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I recommend spending time seeking these blessings for yourself (if you have not - I have no way of knowing) as opposed to questioning others if they exist. Oh! you have no idea..... As an agnistic doubter turned fithful TBM I can attest that the former is so much more edifying than the latter.As a "faithful TBM" turned "somewhat agnostic questioner" , my verdict is still out on that one.
Senator Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) Perhaps you should explain exactly how you think the gift of tongues and gift of prophecy should manifest themselves? There may be a misconception here that is preventing you from seeing these blessings as they occur.I don't know how they should manifest. I'm simply going off of the scriptural wording. Obviously something markedly different took place, otherwise there would have been no need to mention it. Edited December 1, 2011 by Senator
Nominee Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 How do know it has arrived otherwise?To answer this question from my personal experience, by the witness I received from the Holy Ghost when it revealed itself unto me. My heart and my life were forever changed in that moment. There was prophecy, I received wisdom, knowledge, understanding and direction that I am forever grateful to have been given and that is to sacred to me to expose publicly. I also know that through the Holy Ghost I have been given a gift that makes helping others easier for me to do. I received it by the same wisdom.I was raised in a "holy rolling" pentecostal church. When you asked your question about the gift of tongues, for example, I was trying to clarify what that means to you. It does not mean the same thing to everyone. I do not believe that some physical change takes place or some outwardly sign is given everytime hands are laid on someone to confirm the gift of the Holy Ghost has been received so the whole world may know what has happened. I do not believe that the gifts given by the Holy Ghost to each individual are necessarily for public viewing. That is not to say that the transfer of gifts is not taking place right in front of us. I found my confirmation to be a very personal moment in my life.I also agree with DaddyG in that the gift of tongues is used every time a blessing is given in one's own language. There are many languages spoken in my ward as first languages, even more in my stake. Everyone has received in their own language.
KevinG Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Hey Senator - just don't overshoot the mark when seeking to find out what these blessings mean.I just taught this Sunday about my witness to the Book of Mormon. I initailly missed the still small voice testifying to me because I was looking for the big epiphany I had previously received about my question if Christ was my Savior.Spiritual gifts can manifest in more subtle ways than we expect and yet be just as profound in their meaning and fulfillment of scripture. I'm not mocking or trying to invalidate your experience - just sharing mine. I hope it helps add some data to your perspective.
Senator Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I hope it helps add some data to your perspective.I does. I appreciate your and Nominee's remarks.
KevinG Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I does. I appreciate your and Nominee's remarks. I'm glad- I joke around so much on the boards I wonder if people know when I'm being serious! As for your comments they do make me wonder if I am not exercising enough faith (and suspending doubt) so that I am receiving greater manifestations of the spirit. So we're even!
cinepro Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) LDS Church Patents Holy Ghost™...Ummm... No.No mocking each others' beliefsNo attempting to provoke peopleDo not use offensive terms for things we hold sacredDo not post anything else you know is meant to do nothing more than push others' buttons-Ares Edited December 1, 2011 by Ares
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