Proper Use Of Church Funds

[Avatar4321]

I've been taught that leftover funds are sent to SLC for this very reason, to dispense out for poorer stakes. Perhaps someone can confirm this.

It's correct.

[Brade]

You have yet to demonstrate that the spending of sacred tithing funds is, scripturally, primarily (or any other priority) to help those who are poor.

The "ordinary" tithe, the one we pay today, was to support the Israelite Church, not the poor.

Cool. That's part of why I don't pay tithing anymore.

[jskains]

So lets say he church provides a 35 page document on their accounting. You gonna then complain hat it is too long? Or if you decide the church is not doing what YOU think it should. Does every member get a say, or just you? Your looking for something to complain about. Why is that? Looking for your exit story?

JMS

[ERayR]

You are confused. Your list of "corporations" includes non-profit entities that are not corporations. It also mixes entites which exist to make a profit (such as Deseret Book), and those which are non-profit, such as BYU.

You may not believe it, and you may not care to, but the fact is that the Church is religious in keeping profit-making ventures and non-profit ventures separate. However, the Church can and will take funds from the profit side and use them for support of the non-profit activities. The fact is that the Church's involvement in many for-profit ventures enables it to respond swiftly and efficiently to do exactly what you are concerned about: caring for the poor and alleviate suffering.

You can know that the Church is spending sacred funds according to scirptural mandates by sincerely seeking wisdom from the Lord, part of which is wisdom is knowing when to keep your thoughts to yourself.

The non-profit's are corporations. They are just incorporated under code section 501 c (3). It is very smart to split into a number of corprate entities. It provides a manageable entity that can concentrate on their purpose. It also provides boundrys and limits the liability exposure.

Edited November 18, 2011 by ERayR

[ERayR]

Don't administrative costs come out of something besides the offerings though?

Yes and it is my understanding that if the fast offering fund runs short it can be supplemented from tithing funds.

[LeSellers]

Is her issue then that she wants the rest of us to share her same concerns?

What we might call "Evangelical anti-mormonism".

Lehi

[LeSellers]

Lehi, we've not been introduced. My name is Gervin. Rather than attacking me, perhaps you can tell me how my statement is wrong.

We have corresponded via the board.

My charge had less to do with the specific message you posted and to which HeatherAnn responded than with the general tenor of your previous thousand messages. Like this one and this one and this one.

And that's just from the past few messages. the trend started long before that.

I am uncertain as to why you (or anyone) objected to my characterization of you an "no friend of the Church", or my observation that you have an anit-mormon bias. Both statements are demonstrably true.

Lehi

"The only people who don't want the facts revealed are people with something to hide." — Barrack Hussein O'bama

[LeSellers]

Cool. That's part of why I don't pay tithing anymore.

Letting your fire insurance lapse because you don't like the way the insurance company invests your premiums is not a good long-term strategy.

Lehi

[LeSellers]

Yes and it is my understanding that if the fast offering fund runs short it can be supplemented from tithing funds.

Yes, this is also true.

Fast Offerings are first spent locally, according to the need. Then, when a ward or branch has funds left over from those requirements, they go to the district or stake who redistributes them within that unit. Any remaining funds go to Church headquarters who dispenses them where the need has no yet been met, and if there are additional requirements, true tithing funds go to those units that need them.

Lehi

[Gervin]

We have corresponded via the board.

My charge had less to do with the specific message you posted and to which HeatherAnn responded than with the general tenor of your previous thousand messages. Like this one and this one and this one.

I don't recall corresponding with you and the 3 examples you provide don't show us in any kind of exchange, but it sounds like you've been paying keen attention to my postings for quite awhile.

I am uncertain as to why you (or anyone) objected to my characterization of you an "no friend of the Church", or my observation that you have an anit-mormon bias. Both statements are demonstrably true.

I don't care much what you call me or how you characterize me; that's your (obvious) concern. It just seemed to me to be a lazy way to respond to what I wrote; simply smear the messenger.

"The only people who don't want the facts revealed are people with something to hide." — Barrack Hussein O'bama

Oh! I see you agree with the point I made in my first post. Thanks!

Edited November 18, 2011 by Gervin

[LeSellers]

I don't care much what you call me or how you characterize me; that's your (obvious) concern. It just seemed to me to be a lazy way to respond to what I wrote; simply smear the messenger.

I was warning HeatherAnn regarding your position. It appeared that she may have thought that a tithe paying Saint was agreeing with her. This was obviously not the case.

Lehi

[LeSellers]

Don't administrative costs come out of something besides the offerings though?

Most administrative costs are borne by bishops and Relief Society presidents who work for free.

The volunteers in Bishops' Storehouses and canneries, etc., also cut monetary costs to near nothing. Full-time employees are not "well paid", so there are not many costs to pay. But they do come out of tithing funds.

Lehi

Edited November 18, 2011 by LeSellers

[selek1]

Deborah,

I'm considered a "full tithe payer" because my husband, who is the primary provider is.

But nice try in attacking my character.

I believe that Deborah was referring to Gervin.

The only attack on your character thus far came in the opening post of this particular thread.

[Gervin]

I was warning HeatherAnn regarding your position. It appeared that she may have thought that a tithe paying Saint was agreeing with her. This was obviously not the case.

Lehi

Right. A tithe-paying Christian was agreeing with her. You did her a great service, I'm sure, by sounding the alarm.

[LeSellers]

I don't recall corresponding with you and the 3 examples you provide don't show us in any kind of exchange, but it sounds like you've been paying keen attention to my postings for quite awhile.

We have had many exchanges here. That you don't recall them would hurt my pride if I had any.

Lehi

[Gervin]

I believe that Deborah was referring to Gervin.

The only attack on your character thus far came in the opening post of this particular thread.

say what? I didn't "criticize how the church spends its funds"

Edited November 18, 2011 by Gervin

[volgadon]

"God is love." -1John 4:8

What is the greatest commandment, which "hang all the law & the prophets"? To love God & to love others as ourselves.

How do we love God? By loving others as ourselves.

"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me...

Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me." - Matt 25: 40, 45

How do attacks on the integrity of others play into your philosophy of love?

[LeSellers]

I don't recall corresponding with you and the 3 examples you provide don't show us in any kind of exchange, but it sounds like you've been paying keen attention to my postings for quite awhile.

We have had many exchanges here. That you don't recall them would hurt my pride if I had any.

Here's one, and here's another.

Again just a trivial sample from a myriad (not literally, of course).

Lehi

Edited November 18, 2011 by LeSellers

[selek1]

If someone chooses not to trust church leadership, then for goodness sake stop giving your money to them and give it to someone that you trust,,,but be kind enough to stop hassling those who do trust as we have as much right to give our money where we believe it will do the most good as anyone else.

Well said, Sister. Christ said the poor would be with us always....

Mark 14:5-7

5 For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.

6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.

7 For ye have the ^apoor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

Despite the self-righteous preening and empty moralizing here, the primary antagonists have yet to produce any evidence that the Church is not fulfilling its responsibility to the poor.

They expect us to swallow their ignorant, vicious gossip solely on the strength of their "righteous" indignation.

That the Church has in fact, wrought good works in Christ's name is beyond rationale or reasonable dispute.

And so, I ask as did Christ himself; "Let her alone; why trouble ye her?" Why do you grumble and murmur in fatuous ignorance and Pharasiacal self-righteousness?

Wasting time kvetching on an anonymous internet about the Church's failings is not merely Pharasiacal- it is hypocritical. You complain about how else the tithing moneys might have been spent, but give not a single thought to how else your time (of which you have only a finite amount) might have been spent.

Not one moment of your pious posturing has done anything to soothe the brow of the fevered, nor comforted the sorrowing. How much more time might you have spent feeding the hungered, clothing the naked, or drying the tears of the broken-hearted?

I'm sure you found the original rant to be quite cathartic. No doubt you feel quite pleased with yourself for "having struck a blow for truth" or for "speaking truth to power", or some-such other nonsense.

But have you- standing proud and tall in your whited sepuchre- actually produced any results for the poor or the afflicted?

Have you troubled to actually minister to the poor and the afflicted today?

Or is style more important to you than substance?

I can absolutely guarantee you that the Church has made a difference in the lives of the poor today.

So where then is your "widow's mite"? What was your offering to the poor today?

Edited November 18, 2011 by selek1

[LeSellers]

A tithe-paying Christian was agreeing with her.

I did not say "a tithe paying Christian", I said, "a tithe paying Saint". There is a difference. "Saint" is what God calls His people. "Christian" is what people call someone who has Jesus Christ as the normative center of his life. There's some overlap, but the latter, "Christian", is much broader.

Lehi

Edited November 18, 2011 by LeSellers

[Deborah]

I believe that Deborah was referring to Gervin.

Actually I was referring to what Heather said on a previous thread where she said as Lehi pointed out she pays her tithing to other charities, and her husband pays his to God. If she has her own income on which she should be tithed and doesn't pay it she would not be considered a full tithe payer, though her husband would.

Here is her statement: "My husband donates tithing, & although I spend many years paying tithing, I now donate in other ways."

Edited November 18, 2011 by Deborah

[selek1]

Actually I was referring to what Heather said on a previous thread where she said as Lehi pointed out she pays her tithing to other charities, and her husband pays his to God. If she has her own income on which she should be tithed and doesn't pay it she would not be considered a full tithe payer, though her husband would.

Here is her statement: "My husband donates tithing, & although I spend many years paying tithing, I now donate in other ways."

I stand corrected, Deborah.

And worse, I agree with your assessment.

[Gervin]

I did not say "a tithe paying Christian",

I wasn't quoting you.

[Brade]

Letting your fire insurance lapse because you don't like the way the insurance company invests your premiums is not a good long-term strategy.

Lehi

Well, I don't find your analogy compelling, and I hope that doesn't surprise you. I understand that's what you believe, but I don't believe that the quality of my afterlife or my current life depends at all on whether I give the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints any money.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Brade

[LeSellers]

I wasn't quoting you.

Actually, you did.

Lehi