Saints Alive Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Agree or disagree: All church Members (and or the general public) should have unrestricted access to Church Handbook of Instructions Book 1? I understand the arguments for and against it, just want to know what others think.
LeSellers Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) All church Members (and or the general public) should have unrestricted access to Church Handbook of Instructions Book 1?I strongly disagree.It would serve no legitimate purpose whatsoever.Lehi Edited October 13, 2011 by LeSellers
KevinG Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) Disagree.I have had unrestricted access to the Church Handbook of Instrutions in some callings and it nearly put me to sleep. The regulations are there to run wards and stakes. There isn't much in there that would benefit individual members not in organization leadership positions.Any time someone does have a calling that requires those regulations they are provided with a copy of the rules that govern their auxilliary. Those who don't hold those callings don't need to be micromanaging those that do. Some people would take having a copy of the policy manual as an excuse to do so. Others would find reason to criticize every small change to policy that comes up.If someone has questions they can go to their Bishop or Stake President and receive counsel. I fear publication of those guidelines would end up turning them into pseudo-scriptures for members and fodder for critics, creating more fuss than it is worth.Of course not being able to read the mind of Prophets, Apostles and the Correlation Committee I don't know the real reason they don't publish the whole thing on line. Edited October 13, 2011 by DaddyG
Deborah Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Why would anyone want to. It's a "handbook" which means it is a guide and allows church leaders to make adjustments for individual cases. It's for leaders of the church and out of those hands people can use all kinds of wild interpretations.
CV75 Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 I understand the arguments for and against it, just want to know what others think.Why?
Saints Alive Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 One example of where it would be useful (off the top of my head) is the regulations surrounding when a non missionary or unmarried person my receive their endowment. I was once in the situation, I was told all of the following:You cant receive your own endowment until you are either getting married or going on a missionYou cant receive your endowment until you are 25you cant receive your endowment until you are past missionary service ageAfter being appointed to a position that allowed access to CHI 1 i found that all three stipulation I was told were wrong. (and i went to the temple to receive my endowment at 22)
Saints Alive Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) double post: mod please delete Edited October 13, 2011 by Saints Alive
Scott Lloyd Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 The OP's handle leaves me wondering if he/she is affiliated with Ed Decker's anti-Mormon, anti-Mason, anti-Islam group "Saints Alive in Jesus."
Saints Alive Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 Why?I dont Know, morbid curiosity? why not?
Saints Alive Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 The OP's handle leaves me wondering if he/she is affiliated with Ed Decker's anti-Mormon, anti-Mason, anti-Islam group "Saints Alive in Jesus."I can assure you that I am not, but thanks for the concern.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) One example of where it would be useful (off the top of my head) is the regulations surrounding when a non missionary or unmarried person my receive their endowment. I was once in the situation, I was told all of the following:You cant receive your own endowment until you are either getting married or going on a missionYou cant receive your endowment until you are 25you cant receive your endowment until you are past missionary service ageAfter being appointed to a position that allowed access to CHI 1 i found that all three stipulation I was told were wrong. (and i went to the temple to receive my endowment at 22)In these instances, were the leaders citing the handbook, or were they simply exercising their discretion (which, as priesthood leaders, they are entitled to do)? Edited October 13, 2011 by Scott Lloyd
thesometimesaint Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 I have ready access to the CHI, but then I'm a member of the Church. Most of the time it's about my Calling in the Church that I ask about. But I've never been denied for other concerns either.IMNTBHO nonmemebers should MYOB and memebers should stiil go their Bishop for the information.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 I can assure you that I am not, but thanks for the concern.Whence the handle then?
Saints Alive Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 In these instances, were the leaders citing the handbook, or were the simply exercising their discretion (which, as priesthood leaders, they are entitled to do)?They were not leaders but rather Lay members (mostly past leaders) citing "how things are" but thats neither here nor there. The point is that the CHI 1 cleared up the matter and can prevent tradition from being preached as doctrine. Note: I also see the virtue in not granting full access. Mainly to protect the church from critics.
Saints Alive Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 Whence the handle then?Just the first thing that popped into my head. I understand the suspicion I'm sure this site has seen its fair number of trolls in the past. I hope that you can reserve Judgement long enough to allow my posts to speak for themselves.
thesometimesaint Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 For the vast majority of memebers it IS when you are either about to get married or about to go on a Mission that your Endowment is taken out. It is the attainment of a certain level of spiritual maturity that is the key.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Just the first thing that popped into my head. I understand the suspicion I'm sure this site has seen its fair number of trolls in the past. I hope that you can reserve Judgement long enough to allow my posts to speak for themselves.Fair enough.
Storm Rider Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 I see no reason to provide it for all to read. If anyone really wanted to, I suppose they could ask the Bishop a specific question and then ask to see the handbook. People too often slide into being like the Pharisees and fail to understand that it is a guideline and nothing more. The Bishop is still free to direct as he is moved by the Spirit. Besides, if we keep it secret from everyone we can be accused of having something that is really, really super secret.
Saints Alive Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 For the vast majority of memebers it IS when you are either about to get married or about to go on a Mission that your Endowment is taken out. It is the attainment of a certain level of spiritual maturity that is the key.Exactly and that is how I feel it should be explained; spiritual maturity is the key.
KevinG Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 They were not leaders but rather Lay members (mostly past leaders) citing "how things are" but thats neither here nor there. The point is that the CHI 1 cleared up the matter and can prevent tradition from being preached as doctrine.Note: I also see the virtue in not granting full access. Mainly to protect the church from critics.I imagine non-leadership members (lay members) that are inclined to tell you your business and "how things are" would just be more insufferable if they had access to the policy details in the Handbook. These are the same busy bodies that would likely say "hey Bishop you aren't doing it right!"In any case where a member has a question about policy that applies to them they have full access to the handbook regulations through the Bishopric, Stake Presdient, Mission President or anyone that ministers to them.
Saints Alive Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 Besides, if we keep it secret from everyone we can be accused of having something that is really, really super secret.LOL I think we could provide a copy of the CHI with every BOM and we would still be accused of keeping secrets. You just cant win with some people.
KevinG Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Just the first thing that popped into my head. I understand the suspicion I'm sure this site has seen its fair number of trolls in the past. I hope that you can reserve Judgement long enough to allow my posts to speak for themselves.We're kind of whiplashed that way. I did a double take the first time I saw your nic. Then I decided it was the same as the expression my protestant mother in law uses. "Saints Alive! Did you see the caboose on that gal?"
seriously honestly Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) Agree or disagree: All church Members (and or the general public) should have unrestricted access to Church Handbook of Instructions Book 1?I understand the arguments for and against it, just want to know what others think.I agree. I don't see any reason good reason why it's not available, and it would be nice when someone (nonLDS) becomes insistant on some incorrect idea that could proven wrong simply by looking in the CHI. Edited October 13, 2011 by seriously honestly
seriously honestly Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 IMNTBHO nonmemebers should MYOB and memebers should stiil go their Bishop for the information. What does "IMNTBHO" mean?
Saints Alive Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 I agree. I don't see any reason good reason why it's not available, and it would be nice when someone (nonLDS) becomes insistant on some incorrect idea that could proven wrong simply by looking in the CHI.I think the main reason is that it is a book of guidelines and not a book of doctrine. Things can and do change in them. Those changes if looked at over time would give our critics fodder to say that we are not truly inspired because we change the rules( baseless IMHO but they would do it anyway)
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