LeSellers Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 What does "IMNTBHO" mean?"In my nothing but humble [sic] opinion."Lehi
seriously honestly Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 I think the main reason is that it is a book of guidelines and not a book of doctrine. Things can and do change in them. Those changes if looked at over time would give our critics fodder to say that we are not truly inspired because we change the rules( baseless IMHO but they would do it anyway)Yes, I can see that. I know the first book is for stake presidents and bishops, while the second on is more for the members, but the 2nd one contains guidelines and is updated from time to time as well.....ahhh, then again that one does come under criticism when changes occur....hmmmm. Well, personally I would like to see it made public, but I'm not going to stress about it if it's not.
cinepro Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 I agree and disagree.I've read through the CHI book 1 and was bemused to find several notable things being done in my ward or stake that were contradicted by the CHI. But I can understand that others might not be so tolerant and might use it to foster dissension against their leaders.Although that was a few years ago, and when we subsequently got a new bishop, he mentioned he was studying the CHI as part of his preparation, and sure enough, several of the off-manual habits quietly went away over the months.
ERayR Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Agree or disagree: All church Members (and or the general public) should have unrestricted access to Church Handbook of Instructions Book 1?I understand the arguments for and against it, just want to know what others think.Why? Do you think you are missing some deep, dark doctrine? It's a procedures manual. A how to book. Something like an instruction manual for your DVD player.
KevinG Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Why? Do you think you are missing some deep, dark doctrine? It's a procedures manual. A how to book. Something like an instruction manual for your DVD player.There is the instructions for Danites super secret section. We don't want just anyone knowing where we extradite apostates for rendition.
ERayR Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Exactly and that is how I feel it should be explained; spiritual maturity is the key.Then you should have gone to the Bishop.
Saints Alive Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 Why? Do you think you are missing some deep, dark doctrine? It's a procedures manual. A how to book. Something like an instruction manual for your DVD player.dont you know its rude to answer a question with a question? Just kidding. as the discussion has proved it appears to be a controversial issue and I am curious of both the merits and follies with CHI 1's full distribution.
ERayR Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 There is the instructions for Danites super secret section. We don't want just anyone knowing where we extradite apostates for rendition.No you are wrong that is in book 2.
thesometimesaint Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) I can't think of any "up side". Down side sould be the cost. Not only monitary, but in the division among the Saints that "Private Interpretations" would foster, and amongst our critics glee at that division. Edited October 13, 2011 by thesometimesaint
Reinforced-Shelf Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 The CHI the way I sometimes hear it explained in meetings or GC kind of reminds me of the Jedi code. (Sorry for the Star Wars analogy).Qui-Gon Jinn was slightly reprimanded when he went against the Jedi code (CHI) and listened to the Living Force. I haven't read the whole book (book 1), but I hope Bishops/Stake Presidents are counselled to listen to the "Living Force" and not always appeal to the CHI.
Ariarates Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 I couldn't care less one way or another. In the interest of public sanity, I'd say no, lest unsuspecting readers are bored to death. On the other hand, if you really really want to read it, you can always go to your bishop (the ones I know will just let you peruse it) or download it from Wikileaks.Now Handbook 0, that's quite another story, I bet most members don't even know it exists...
Scott Lloyd Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) We're kind of whiplashed that way. I did a double take the first time I saw your nic. Then I decided it was the same as the expression my protestant mother in law uses. "Saints Alive! Did you see the caboose on that gal?"I thought the expression was "Sakes alive!" and "Saints Alive" was Decker's play-on-words. But I could be wrong.By the way, what does "nic" mean? I couldn't find a relevant meaning in the Urban Dictionary.Add-on: Just dawned on me that it could mean nickname. Is that it? Edited October 13, 2011 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 I couldn't care less one way or another. In the interest of public sanity, I'd say no, lest unsuspecting readers are bored to death. On the other hand, if you really really want to read it, you can always go to your bishop (the ones I know will just let you peruse it) or download it from Wikileaks.If Wikileaks is publishing the handbook, they are violating the Church's IP rights, and conscientious Latter-day Saints should not be enabling them.
LeSellers Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 If Wikileaks is publishing the handbook, they are violating the Church's IP rights, and conscientious Latter-day Saints should not be enabling them.As if they care.Lehi
Cobalt-70 Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Agree. If members are to be judged according to policies written in the book, they ought to have access to the book.Plus, keeping it secret is counterproductive and creates bad press. If there is a church policy that is so damaging to the church that it should be kept secret, then maybe that policy needs to be re-thought.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) As if they care.LehiWikileaks might not, but Church members should. Edited October 13, 2011 by Scott Lloyd
Mark Beesley Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Agree or disagree: All church Members (and or the general public) should have unrestricted access to Church Handbook of Instructions Book 1?They do.
LeSellers Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Wikileaks might not [care if they publish the CHI in violation of the IRR copyright], but Church members should.Indeed. However, they will publish them (and have in the past) if they can, irrespective of who else cares.Lehi
Sky Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Disagree. The Church already did a great service for the membership by publishing Book 2. A lot of what you would want to know about church policies is already in Book 2. The world doesn’t need to know everything just because it wants to. Some things are not intended for the public. If a member has a serious question or concern, the right way to handle it would be to approach their bishop or Stake president. 1
KevinG Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 If a member has a serious question or concern, the right way to handle it would be to approach their bishop or Stake president.You make a good point here. I wonder if there would be a temptation on the part of some members to try and "self counsel" if they had the handbook in situations where a discussion with an ecclesiastical leader would provide more support.
rpn Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 I do not think there is any reason why members of the church should not be able to access it whenever they desire (online because otherwise it would be a great waste of money and maybe this will happen when we have the personalized way to access church info that is more and more happening). (And as a lay member, I always have had all the access I've ever wanted to it. The bishop just sets me up in an office with it when I ask.) Absolutely some take it as scripture. But then that happens even now. Sure some will print and give it to non-members. Happens now. Sure some will browbeat the leaders about what is says. Happens now (and sometimes leaders need to be browbeaten: with all the counsel when 2010 came out, you still hear leaders who do things the way the local tradition is and do not automatically articulate that they got inspiration otherwise. One of the good things that would happen is that (and should happen now since this is in Book 2) is that no one would get a vasectomy or tubes ties without being able to be held accountable for doing so --- that's just an example of how members who want to can find out what the church thinks about each subject.
seriously honestly Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 They do.How do I have access to the first CHI?
KevinG Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 How do I have access to the first CHI?Ask your local Bishop or Stake President. If you have a specific policy question in mind it would help them find you the answer you seek.
seriously honestly Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Ask your local Bishop or Stake President. If you have a specific policy question in mind it would help them find you the answer you seek.Oh, I was speaking as a nonLDS member.
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