Olavarria Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) D&C 9:7-107 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. 8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must astudy it out in your bmind; then you must cask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your dbosom shall eburn within you; therefore, you shall ffeel that it is right. 9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a a<a href="http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/9/9a" mark="a" style="color: rgb(64, 99, 157); " title="D&C 10: 2." type="A">stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is bsacred save it be given you from meWhat it was not:1)a logo-graphic translation: Joseph didn't look at "x" character on the plates and decide what it meant and then render that into English.2)God merely dictating to Joseph what the English version of the text should be. Edited October 10, 2011 by Pedro A. Olavarria
Calm Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 I have always wondered why that picture has Joseph sitting on the stairs. Is there any indication in the various accounts that is where he would sit while the scribe would sit at the table?
Brant Gardner Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Just as a note, D&C 9 concerns Oliver's attempt at translation. Although it might be applicable to Joseph's method as well, we should at least be clear that this isn't a direct description of it.
Olavarria Posted October 10, 2011 Author Posted October 10, 2011 I have always wondered why that picture has Joseph sitting on the stairs. Is there any indication in the various accounts that is where he would sit while the scribe would sit at the table?I just used this picture because it looks cool.
Olavarria Posted October 10, 2011 Author Posted October 10, 2011 Just as a note, D&C 9 concerns Oliver's attempt at translation. Although it might be applicable to Joseph's method as well, we should at least be clear that this isn't a direct description of it.Good call, thanks for the clarification.
Calm Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 I just used this picture because it looks cool.Oh well, was hoping you knew....
Robert F. Smith Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 I have always wondered why that picture has Joseph sitting on the stairs. Is there any indication in the various accounts that is where he would sit while the scribe would sit at the table?According to those who watched, Joseph would sit on one side of the table, his scribe on the other. Joseph had his stone in his hat and his face in the hat to exclude the outside light. Then, also according to third parties (since Joseph declined to describe the process), some sort of light was emitted from the stone with the translation thereon. Joseph would read it and the scribe would write it. Then a new word or phrase would appear.One time, Oliver switched stones on Joseph while he was on break, and Joseph could see nothing.Another time, after Joseph had a spat with his wife, he couldn't translate until he apologized to his wife.A blanket was hung to keep prying eyes from seeing what they were doing if visitors came to the house and the door was opened.
Brant Gardner Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 One time, Oliver switched stones on Joseph while he was on break, and Joseph could see nothing.You have correctly remembered the incident, but it was Martin Harris, not Oliver. Otherwise, that is the basic story.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 You have correctly remembered the incident, but it was Martin Harris, not Oliver. Otherwise, that is the basic story.Thanks.
why me Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 The hat story is amazing. I think that it is very faith strengthening. For Rigdonites, it is a major obstacle that Sidney wrote the book of mormon and had JS be the front man. Also, if JS was not a prophet it shows JS to be quite gifted. And if so, I wouldn't have wasted my talent on starting a new religion. I would have taken my show on the road to make some money with my skill. But that is just me.
KevinG Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 When I learned of the situation Joseph was living in during the translation (Multiple families in a small house) I thought to myself, putting my head in a hat to block out distractions makes a lot of sense.Of course I live with 8 other people in a single home, so I have done similar things to block out noise and distractions. If Joseph had access to foam earplugs I'm guessing he would have used those regularly during the translation process. 1
Cobalt-70 Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 I have always wondered why that picture has Joseph sitting on the stairs. Is there any indication in the various accounts that is where he would sit while the scribe would sit at the table?Martin Harris apparently said that Smith occasionally spoke the translation while he was upstairs or in a different room. That is what I think this drawing is based on. But that has to have been a rarity, because Harris primarily describes him as translating out in the open. Plus, Martin Harris was scribe for almost none (if any) of the surviving Book of Mormon. He worked primarily on the Book of Lehi, which was lost. For the later translation, I don't think any of the witnesses described any other method than Smith working at the same table with the scribe, out in the open with his face buried in the brim of his hat.
Cobalt-70 Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 The hat story is amazing. I think that it is very faith strengthening. For Rigdonites, it is a major obstacle that Sidney wrote the book of mormon and had JS be the front man. Also, if JS was not a prophet it shows JS to be quite gifted. And if so, I wouldn't have wasted my talent on starting a new religion. I would have taken my show on the road to make some money with my skill. But that is just me.There are enough witnesses who saw Smith translating with the stone in his hat that I think the old "Sidney Rigdon wrote it" theory is thoroughly discredited.
Calm Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Martin Harris apparently said that Smith occasionally spoke the translation while he was upstairs or in a different room. That is what I think this drawing is based on. But that has to have been a rarity, because Harris primarily describes him as translating out in the open.Strange then that those who promote this drawing as more accurate often reject the ones that show a curtain or other aspects which also occurred on occasion.
Cobalt-70 Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Strange then that those who promote this drawing as more accurate often reject the ones that show a curtain or other aspects which also occurred on occasion.The curtain is even more inaccurate. The only time that a witness said a curtain was drawn is during the very early translation with Martin Harris, when Smith was said to have copied individual characters from the plates and passed them to Harris on the other side of the curtain, thus producing the Anthon transcript. This was not actually translation, however. It was just transcription. One of the Whitmer daughters said that she never saw a curtain raised during all the time the translation took place in the Whitmer house, and nobody else made mention of a curtain.
mfbukowski Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 When I learned of the situation Joseph was living in during the translation (Multiple families in a small house) I thought to myself, putting my head in a hat to block out distractions makes a lot of sense.Of course I live with 8 other people in a single home, so I have done similar things to block out noise and distractions. If Joseph had access to foam earplugs I'm guessing he would have used those regularly during the translation process.With my earplugs and black knit hat, I can sleep or meditate anywhere! As long as it isn't summer, that is!
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