Vance Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) Be sure to include Rob's activities with CRI and Dr. Walter Martin in your expose...http://www.equip.org...earch-instituteI got a kick out of this statement. His gifts and personal charisma were the centrifugal force that held the ministry together for more than 29 years.The funny part is "centrifugal" means just the opposite from this usage. It is a force of disfusion or dispersion away from a center point.LOL!!!!!!!!!!! Edited October 14, 2011 by Vance
california boy Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 <p></p><p> </p><p>CFR please. I'd like to see how those LDS lessons about protestantism contrast with the preaching of IRR, Saints Alive, Utah Lighthouse Ministry and other materials of their type.</p><p></p><p> </p><p>I don't know anything about f IRR, Saints Alive, Utah Lighthouse Ministry and other materials of their type. What they say about Mormonism just doesn't bother me. It never has even when I was activally involved in the church.As long as the doctrine they ascribe to the Mormon church is in fact doctrine, then I don't have a problem with them disagreeing with that doctrine. To them Joseph Smith is a "so called" prophet. To members of the church he is a prophet in every sense of the word. We certainly don't expect Mormons to say the Pope is "Christ's representative here on earth" do we? Becasuse Mormons believe that Thomas S. Monson is in fact Christ's representative on earth. It is a difference in belief. And it is completly understandabe. If evangelics believe tha Joseph Smith was a prophet of God they would leave their teachings and follow the teachings of the restored gospel.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Maybe you should reread what I posted</p><p> </p><div>Yes, they consider Mormons beliefs in who Christ was as different from theirs. Evangelics preach against this difference. Nothing new here. To some extent Mormons also preach against the evalgelic view of Christ. I certainly have been taught lessons on what the christian view of the Godhead and what the Mormon view of the Trinity. And personally their view does not make any sense to me at all. But I certainly don't get upset if they teach their beliefs and show the differences in those beliefs. I think some people listening to how Mormons view Christ might very well say, hey wait a minute, the Mormons view makes a lot more sense and certainly fits the scriptures better. </div><div> </div><div>Now unless you have never in your church experience heard any discussion about the Trinity, or any other evangelic belieff that was pointed out as a difference between the church and other churches, then I have not said anything that is not true. I simply point out that Mormons, like every religion discusses views that are different than their own. If that has not been your experience well then, I guess we had different teachers. </div><div> </div><div>A lot of what I know about evalgeliic christian beliefs have come from the differences I have learned about in a church/fireside/general conference setting. I have only attended a handful of actual evangelic meetings in my life. If you want, I can referemce plenty of statements even on this board members have made about the differences in religious beliefs between Mormons and Evangelics. </div><div> </div><div>One thing that Mormons don't quite understand is that many of the beliefs of the church are a bit out of mainstream christian teachings. When you start talking about Kolob, becoming like god, having eternal offspring etc. then to a lot of people it appears strange and unfamiliar. If however you beieve that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and truth was restored to him that was lost , then it all seems to fit together like a masterful jigsaw puzzle that forms a beautiful picture of what it means to be children of our Father in Heaven. </div>
KevinG Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Um... No California boy you brought up a false equivelence between the LDS Church teachings and a counter cult ministry seminar hosted by some well known and vociferous anti-mormon groups.My CFR stands. Find the LDS equivelent of MRM, ULM, CRI, IRR or other anti-Mormon ministries and we'll talk. 2
cdowis Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) As I said, your web site shows it all. No further evidence is needed.Can we assume that you are capable of finding your own website?You were politely asked to provide a serious response. Do your have a specific response, or should we expect a retraction. Can we assume that you are capable of doing a cut and paste?Thank you. Edited October 15, 2011 by cdowis
mfbukowski Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 I got a kick out of this statement.The funny part is "centrifugal" means just the opposite from this usage. It is a force of disfusion or dispersion away from a center point.LOL!!!!!!!!!!!No, you see, as it was spinning down the drain, Rob was the force that kept it spinning. Or something like that.
california boy Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) Um... No California boy you brought up a false equivelence between the LDS Church teachings and a counter cult ministry seminar hosted by some well known and vociferous anti-mormon groups.My CFR stands. Find the LDS equivelent of MRM, ULM, CRI, IRR or other anti-Mormon ministries and we'll talk.Just exactly what are you looking for here? Proof that the church teaches against the Trinity? Because is all I claimed is that the church teaches against the christian belief in the trinity. If you look at my previous posts, I never said anything about MRM, ULM, CRI, IRR. In fact I don't have any idea how or what they teach. Please read previous posts.If you need me to find statements by the church that we do not teach the Trinity doctrine, I am happy to find yoou some. Edited October 15, 2011 by california boy
cdowis Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Just exactly what are you looking for here? Proof that the church teaches against the Trinity? Because is all I claimed is that the church teaches against the christian belief in the trinity. I usually use the term "one substance" (homoousia) doctrine, since that avoids disagreement over the definition of "trinity". That makes things more clear. We believe in the Trinity, but not one substance.
maklelan Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 We certainly don't expect Mormons to say the Pope is "Christ's representative here on earth" do we? Becasuse Mormons believe that Thomas S. Monson is in fact Christ's representative on earth. It is a difference in belief. And it is completly understandabe. I don't intend to fully insert myself in this discussion, but I would point out that "Pope" is a title just like "prophet" (literally it is "father," but more commonly "patriarch" or "bishop"), and carries with it similar affirmations of authority. Believing that someone from another faith occupies an ecclesiastical post rightfully held by a member of one's own faith shouldn't mean they impugn the legitimacy of the other person's title whenever they reference it. 1
Rob Bowman Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) Vance and Selek,Over a week ago, Mola wrote:The only person I am aware, that has done that on the list that Salek has provided, is Aaron (the Shaff) Shafovaloff.I would be interested in seeing any evidence, for this, for Mr Bowman.This would be a CFR.Note :This is a CFR for Vance or Salek.Neither one of you has answered Mola's CFR. A vague wave of the hand at IRR's website is not an answer.Do the forum rules not apply to you? Are you not obliged to answer the CFR with a specific reference or to retract your claim? Edited October 23, 2011 by Rob Bowman
Vance Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 Be sure to include Rob's activities with CRI and Dr. Walter Martin in your expose...http://www.equip.org...earch-instituteMr. Bowman's mischaracterization of LDS doctrines and prophets demonstrated on this site alone is enough to characterize him as anti-mormon. He is certainly no lover of Mormons who retain their faith.While he is certainly well spoken and polite to a fault (except when he sneaks in phrses like "supposed prophet") he still denies others the courtesy of defining and explaining their own beliefs. Politeness without respect is a mere pretty veneer over ugly hatred.As has been said before you will find no equivelent to Rob's counter-cult ministry in LDS circles. We may fail to be polite when someone attacks our sacred beliefs but we don't systematically disrespect and attack others beliefs.I think Bowman missed this.
Vance Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 Agreed. No further reference is needed. It's as clear as day.And this.
Vance Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 As I said, your web site shows it all. No further evidence is needed.Can we assume that you are capable of finding your own website?And this.
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