Stargazer Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 And I Saw the Stars -- The Book of Abraham and Ancient Geocentric AstronomyStargazer, please read my "disclaimer".Olavarria, since JKimball has resurrected the topic from possibly deserved obscurity, I will note that I did read your disclaimer, and I was not attributing any actual astronomy to the notion of Kolob being Sirius to you, but the notion still needs to be kicked in the head. JKimball's linked article goes on and on, rather interestingly, about Sirius and symbolism, and that's fine as it goes, but doesn't address the question of Kolob=Sirius.Recently, however, a supremely better candidate has been found! Recall that I complained that from simple astronomical/astrophysical facts there was no way Sirius, a short-lived and very recently-born star could possibly be Kolob. Well, astronomers have found a star in our galaxy which is nearly as old as the universe itself, and in fact is older than the galaxy (probably captured by the Milky Way galaxy near the time of its formation). It is HD 140283, colloquially known as the Methusalah Star.Research has found it to be extremely old, having been created very shortly after the Big Bang. It is currently the oldest known star in the UniverseThis star is far more likely than Sirius to be Kolob. Of course, since Sirius has ZERO chance of being Kolob, that isn't saying much, but... nevertheless, if an actual known star is to be regarded as Kolob, this is the best candidate.I will not make the claim that it IS Kolob, however. 1
blackstrap Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 If we assume that there is an actual Kolob star somewhere in the Galaxy/Universe , would the ancients have been able to see it with the technology available at the time? If not, then how might the concept have been communicated to anyone? God has to deal with us as we are, so maybe the use of a 'substitute ' star/symbol would be OK. We all know of the human tendency to replace the actual with the substitute as soon as possible.
Kenngo1969 Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) "Kolob as Sirius? Are you serious?!"OK, ban me from the thread. My work here is done! P.S.: Actually, not quite:[media=] Now it's done. Edited March 11, 2013 by Kenngo1969 1
JKimball Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Stargazer, is there something in the scriptures that says Kolob is older than our sun? I'm not getting why the age is such an issue for you. Sirius was around when Abraham and even Adam were on the earth. That's old enough, isn't it?
blackstrap Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 I think it is assumed that the regulator of all the stars and the one closest to God would necessarily be one of the oldest. In the same way that Christ is the Firstborn and assumed to be the oldest of God's children.
Stargazer Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Stargazer, is there something in the scriptures that says Kolob is older than our sun? I'm not getting why the age is such an issue for you. Sirius was around when Abraham and even Adam were on the earth. That's old enough, isn't it?What's "old enough"? I take the fact that Kolob has some primacy according to the scriptures to mean that it has some seniority. Unless Father moves his capital around from place to place every few hundred million years, I think it necessary that Kolob has been around a fairly lengthy period of time. Sirius and its white dwarf companion are only 230 million years old. In about the same time they will be both be white dwarfs. For this reason I reject the possibility of Sirius being Kolob. The only reason Sirius is at all noteworthy is the fact that it is very close to the Sol system -- only 8.6 light-years, or twice as far as the star nearest Sol, Alpha Centauri. If it were twice again as far away, it would merely be bright, and not the brightest, and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.But I would not even try to claim that Kolob is any identifiable star, in this galaxy or any other. HD 140283 is simply the best candidate, if there ever was one, for Kolob.The other thing is, we have been talking as if Kolob itself were some kind of "center place", or as I myself just wrote, a "capital". The scripture says that is merely the closest to that place. Edited March 11, 2013 by Stargazer
rodheadlee Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 I would think that Kolob would be at the center of our galaxy or near the center.
bcuzbcuz Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 as you narrow this down, we'll spare the puns while you pare the suns...Now that was funny!
JKimball Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 What's "old enough"? I take the fact that Kolob has some primacy according to the scriptures to mean that it has some seniority. Unless Father moves his capital around from place to place every few hundred million years, I think it necessary that Kolob has been around a fairly lengthy period of time. Sirius and its white dwarf companion are only 230 million years old. In about the same time they will be both be white dwarfs. For this reason I reject the possibility of Sirius being Kolob. The only reason Sirius is at all noteworthy is the fact that it is very close to the Sol system -- only 8.6 light-years, or twice as far as the star nearest Sol, Alpha Centauri. If it were twice again as far away, it would merely be bright, and not the brightest, and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.But I would not even try to claim that Kolob is any identifiable star, in this galaxy or any other. HD 140283 is simply the best candidate, if there ever was one, for Kolob.The other thing is, we have been talking as if Kolob itself were some kind of "center place", or as I myself just wrote, a "capital". The scripture says that is merely the closest to that place.Well, we can agree to disagree. I don't have any problem whatsoever with the idea that God can move his "home" around the universe as he pleases. Particularly if it is to set up shop nearer to his next project that is ramping up. I am surprised that you are so willing to completely reject the possibility of Kolob as Sirius based solely (hey another pun) on the relative ages of Sirius and our sun, when there isn't anything about that in the scriptures. The evidence in favor of the theory seems more than remarkable to me. The BoA says Kolob is the greatest star. If we accept the Petersen/Gee/Hamblin theory that the astronomy discussed in the BoA is from Abraham's naked eye perspective, it is a fact that Sirius is the brightest star in the night sky, and so at least in that sense, the greatest. Add to that the remarkable number of ancient religions that consider Sirius as the source of spiritual enlightenment, per the article I posted earlier. Why dismiss that so lightly? Then add to that the klb root for dog in several relevant languanges, recognizing that many ancient cultures refer to Sirius as the dog star. I also think it is intriguing that it is a binary system, giving a very identifiable place that is very near to Sirius, since the BoA says Kolob is the nearest star to where God lives. If God resided on that white dwarf, the description of Kolob in the BoA would match Sirius exactly. I'm not placing any bets on it, but I do think it is a remarkable possibility.
Recommended Posts