Joseph Smith And Mohammed

[Rivers]

In another thread I stated that Joseph Smith is viewed by Mormons similar to the way in which Muslims view Mohammed. I was then told it was very offensive to compare the two men. I was told to start a new thread if I wanted to continue the subject. So here it is.

In my defense, I wasn't so much comparing the two men as I was comparing the manner in which the religions they started view them.

Here are some similarities that I can think of:

-Mormons view Joseph Smith as the greatest prophet who ever lived.

Muslims consider Mohammed the greatest of all prophets.

(Of Course, Mormons consider Christ to be the greatest, but that depends on if you consider Christ to be a prophet or not.)

-They both produced new books of scripture. Mohammed gave Islam the Koran. Joseph gave Mormons the Book of Mormon.

-They are both considered to be a restorer of an original faith.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Rivers

[Commander]

Both claimed to get their scriptures from an Angel.

[thesometimesaint]

Commander:

Yes and no. The only Scripture we have from an Angel is the BoM. D&C nope, and Pearl of Great Price nope.

[ELF1024]

In another thread I stated that Joseph Smith is viewed by Mormons similar to the way in which Muslims view Mohammed. I was then told it was very offensive to compare the two men. I was told to start a new thread if I wanted to continue the subject. So here it is.

In my defense, I wasn't so much comparing the two men so much as I was comparing the manner in which the religions they started view them.

Here are some similarities that I can think of:

-Mormons view Joseph Smith as the greatest prophet who ever lived.

Muslims consider Mohammad the greatest of all prophets.

(Of Course, Mormons consider Christ to be the greatest, but that depends on if you consider Christ to be a prophet or not.)

-They both produced new books of scripture. Mohammad gave Islam the Koran. Joseph gave Mormons the Book of Mormon.

-They are both considered to be a restorer of an original faith.

I do not believe that Joseph Smith was the greatest Prophet who ever lived. His role was important; and I view him as equal in stature to Moses. I don't generally get into the Prophet rating game. They all had important things to do. I do think that Jonah was the worst Prophet, if you accept him as such.

Critical Differences:

- Mohammad was a warlord who encouraged his followers to loot and pillage and took a share of the booty.

- Mohammad was poisoned (killed) by one of his Jewish concubines he took as part of the loot from a raid.

- Muslims are still encouraged to kill Jews, and other people of the book to this day.

- The legal marriage age in many Muslim nations is 9 years old. Because that it is believed to be the age at which Mohammad married his favorite bride Aisha.

- The Book of Mormon doesn't require a companion novel to make sense. The Koran requires the Surahs to make sense.

- The followers of Mohammad tend to be the worst misogynists on the planet, women are treated as property, not allowed to be out without a male relative, and are not allowed to drive in some Muslim countries (The Kingdom of Saud specifically). If a woman is raped, it is considered HER fault, and can be put to death for being a victim. A woman's word is only worth one third of a man's.

- Muslims reject the divine nature of Jesus Christ; they do not believe he is the Son of God, but accept him as a Prophet.

- To draw a picture of Mohammad or to be disrespectful to Mohammad today can get you killed.

- To leave Islam is a death sentence; the true followers of Allah will kill you for leaving the faith.

Mohammad is the founder of the world's most intolerant and hateful religion.

Edited June 27, 2011 by ELF1024

[ELF1024]

In another thread I stated that Joseph Smith is viewed by Mormons similar to the way in which Muslims view Mohammed. I was then told it was very offensive to compare the two men. I was told to start a new thread if I wanted to continue the subject. So here it is.

In my defense, I wasn't so much comparing the two men as I was comparing the manner in which the religions they started view them.

Here are some similarities that I can think of:

-Mormons view Joseph Smith as the greatest prophet who ever lived.

Muslims consider Mohammed the greatest of all prophets.

(Of Course, Mormons consider Christ to be the greatest, but that depends on if you consider Christ to be a prophet or not.)

-They both produced new books of scripture. Mohammed gave Islam the Koran. Joseph gave Mormons the Book of Mormon.

-They are both considered to be a restorer of an original faith.

Couple of other Similarities:

- Both Mohammad and Joseph Smith practiced polygamy.

- However Muslims still practice it; even in countries where it's illegal to do so.

- Both revealed a eating standard "Word of Wisdom" / "Halal"

-Both the LDS Church and Islam fractured after the death of their first leader.

Both claimed to get their scriptures from an Angel.

Except that Mohammad claimed that Gabriel dictated the Koran to him, where Joseph Smith translated an ancient record that was given to him.

[kolipoki09]

I do not believe that Joseph Smith was the greatest Prophet who ever lived. His role was important; and I view him as equal in stature to Moses. I don't generally get into the Prophet rating game. They all had important things to do. I do think that Jonah was the worst Prophet, if you accept him as such.

Critical Differences:

- Mohammad was a warlord who encouraged his followers to loot and pillage and took a share of the booty.

- Mohammad was poisoned (killed) by one of his Jewish concubines he took as part of the loot from a raid.

- Muslims are still encouraged to kill Jews, and other people of the book to this day.

- The legal marriage age in many Muslim nations is 9 years old. Because that it is believed to be the age at which Mohammad married his favorite bride Aisha.

- The Book of Mormon doesn't require a companion novel to make sense. The Koran requires the Surahs to make sense.

- The followers of Mohammad tend to be the worst misogynists on the planet, women are treated as property, not allowed to be out without a male relative, and are not allowed to drive in some Muslim countries (The Kingdom of Saud specifically). If a woman is raped, it is considered HER fault, and can be put to death for being a victim. A woman's word is only worth one third of a man's.

- Muslims reject the divine nature of Jesus Christ; they do not believe he is the Son of God, but accept him as a Prophet.

- To draw a picture of Mohammad or to be disrespectful to Mohammad today can get you killed.

- To leave Islam is a death sentence; the true followers of Allah will kill you for leaving the faith.

Mohammad is the founder of the world's most intolerant and hateful religion.

Before you continue your diatribe against a faith you appear to know very little about, may I suggest a good book to help you pass the time?

http://www.amazon.com/Muhammad-Prophet-God-Daniel-Peterson/dp/0802807542

By the way, I've heard Rocky Hulse argue almost identically every single point against Islam you've mentioned - only against Mormons.

[ELF1024]

Before you continue your diatribe against a faith you appear to know very little about, may I suggest a good book to help you pass the time?

http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0802807542

By the way, I've heard Rocky Hulse argue almost identically every single point against Islam you've mentioned - only against Mormons.

Yes, I am aware that DCP has a differing opinion from Robert Spencer.

Religion of Peace, Christianity or Islam

Truth About Mohammad

I have no idea who Rocky Hulse is.

Edited June 27, 2011 by ELF1024

[Daniel Peterson]

Yes, I am aware that DCP has a differing opinion from Robert Spencer

It's not just DCP who has a different view on Muhammad than Robert Spencer.

It's Montgomery Watt and Frants Buhl and Maxime Rodinson and virtually every other biographer of Muhammad over the past century or more.

[ELF1024]

It's not just DCP who has a different view on Muhammad than Robert Spencer.

It's Montgomery Watt and Frants Buhl and Maxime Rodinson and virtually every other biographer of Muhammad over the past century or more.

I wasn't attempting to discredit you, or somehow besmirch your opinion. My apologizes you if interpreted it as such.

[Storm Rider]

In another thread I stated that Joseph Smith is viewed by Mormons similar to the way in which Muslims view Mohammed. I was then told it was very offensive to compare the two men. I was told to start a new thread if I wanted to continue the subject. So here it is.

In my defense, I wasn't so much comparing the two men as I was comparing the manner in which the religions they started view them.

Here are some similarities that I can think of:

-Mormons view Joseph Smith as the greatest prophet who ever lived.

Muslims consider Mohammed the greatest of all prophets.

(Of Course, Mormons consider Christ to be the greatest, but that depends on if you consider Christ to be a prophet or not.)

-They both produced new books of scripture. Mohammed gave Islam the Koran. Joseph gave Mormons the Book of Mormon.

-They are both considered to be a restorer of an original faith.

The comparison is not offensive to me in the least. There are definitely some similarities between the two individuals just as there are differences. However, the differences do not negate the similarities. I do find it offensive when other Christians use this comparison as if it says something about the LDS faith. I find such actions similar to reading the National Enquirer to prove the existence of aliens; it is the position of the brain dead and demonstrates an absence of intellect.

I guess I would also think that denying the similarity is simply being closed-minded. I also suspect those that do also have found the comparison tiresome coming from LDS critics and are rejecting that position rather than the actual similarities.

[sjdawg]

Except that Mohammad claimed that Gabriel dictated the Koran to him, where Joseph Smith translated an ancient record that was given to him.

Did he actually translate it or was it revealed to him? Translation implies that the plates were actually in the room being deciphered at all times.

[Rivers]

Did he actually translate it or was it revealed to him? Translation implies that the plates were actually in the room being deciphered at all times.

n

I think the plates were a tool to increase Joseph's confidence in what he was experiencing. I'd say it was more of a revelation than a translation.

[ELF1024]

Before you continue your diatribe against a faith you appear to know very little about, may I suggest a good book to help you pass the time?

http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0802807542

By the way, I've heard Rocky Hulse argue almost identically every single point against Islam you've mentioned - only against Mormons.

I have picked up the book for my Kindle.

[hungrytrash]

Short of Christ, Adam is the "greatest" prophet. There's a quote about Joseph doing more for the salvation of mankind than any but Christ, but I don't think that defines him as the greatest prophet. Adam's fall had nothing to do with our "salvation" (we only need salvation because of the fall), but it was necessary and more important, because none of us would have been born otherwise. I'm sure the dispensation heads had equally "great" roles relative to their spheres of influence. The point is, we aren't calling the restorer "the greatest prophet " as Muhammad is called, we're calling the dispensation "the greatest dispensation". At the end of the day, Joseph reports to Michael, and Michael reports to Christ.

[altersteve]

-Mormons view Joseph Smith as the greatest prophet who ever lived.

Actually, Mormons view Jesus as the greatest prophet who ever lived. But I see what you're saying. I just had to make that correction regardless.

EDIT: Never mind, I saw that you made that distinction in your post. I didn't see it. My bad.

Edited June 27, 2011 by altersteve

[zerinus]

In another thread I stated that Joseph Smith is viewed by Mormons similar to the way in which Muslims view Mohammed. I was then told it was very offensive to compare the two men. I was told to start a new thread if I wanted to continue the subject. So here it is.

In my defense, I wasn't so much comparing the two men as I was comparing the manner in which the religions they started view them.

Here are some similarities that I can think of:

-Mormons view Joseph Smith as the greatest prophet who ever lived.

Muslims consider Mohammed the greatest of all prophets.

(Of Course, Mormons consider Christ to be the greatest, but that depends on if you consider Christ to be a prophet or not.)

-They both produced new books of scripture. Mohammed gave Islam the Koran. Joseph gave Mormons the Book of Mormon.

-They are both considered to be a restorer of an original faith.

From that point of view I would say yes, there are similarities between the two. But so what? I am curious to know where you are going with this.

[KevinG]

I have just started my personal study of the Koran because I want to understand the law and religion of the people I may be working for (Saudis). I picked up a poorly written book from the used book store that was an introduction to Islam. It at least presented the views of a faithful Muslim if not a great read. I was struck by some parallels...

The Muslims as well as the Latter-day Saints felt that there was some kind of apostacy or falling away from the true form of God's religion. The Muslims believe this included worshipping Jesus as a God (they felt he was a prophet). They also date the apostacy far before the LDS did and go all the way back to before Jesus time.

The parallels between Mohammed and Joseph being visited by messengers of God and receiving scripture were striking (as mentioned above there are differences as well).

The actions of the Muslims are different from the actions of the Saints. Spreading the religion through conquest is particular to Islam, but then again the LDS Church wasn't started in the 7th century amidst fuedal kindgdoms.

Something to remember about the vast majority of Muslims. They aren't the ones who make the news. Judging their fruits by the headlines does them a great injustice. They are very advanced when it comes to charity, finance and education.

My wifes best friend is a convert (her husband is a Pakistani Muslim) and they have raised a family in Arizona that almost parallels our family. I would be pleased to have my family associate with them more often if we didn't live on opposite sides of the country. They are sober, faithful, family loving and kind. They are often mistaken for LDS by their neighbors in Mesa precisely because of the way they live their faith and love their family.

This is a purely superficial and preliminary observation but I look forward to learning more.

[KevinG]

One significant differnce I picked up on in what I read - I saw many Islamic parallels with Fundamental Calvanist branches of Christianity and their approach to faith and ralationships with God. The emphasis on agency that the LDS value is not a pronounced in those faiths.

I suspect our resident experts can verify or disabuse my notions there.

[cdowis]

Joseph Smith is unique among those who claim a prophetic calling. He had at least fifteen witnesses to specific events in his divine calling --

• viewed and hefted the BOM plates,
  heard the voice of the Lord,
  Direct contact with divine personages -- Moroni, John the Baptist, and the apostles Peter, James and John
  Joint vision of the Saviour

Mohammed has only himself as a witness. Just another dime a dozen claimant.

Edited June 28, 2011 by cdowis

[sjdawg]

Mohammed has only himself as a witness. Just another dime a dozen claimant.

Classy

[Ares]

Respect other religions in your discussions as you would like your religion respected. We expect better behavior from LDS apologists when discussing other faiths than has been demonstrated in a few of the above posts.

This is the only warning that will be given. Cheap shots or insults about any religion will result in lost posting priveledges!

[cdowis]

Those who know me realize that there was no disrespect intended.

So, let me make myself very clear to those who were offended. JS was unique as one who claimed to be a prophet because he had many witnesses to multiple divine events. Mohammed's prophetic claim was surrounded by very ordinary circumstances, and did not stand out from among the hundreds of other claimants in that regard.

I have said nothing about him personally, nor about his religion, only his claim to be a prophet which is the topic of this thread.

Edited June 28, 2011 by cdowis

[ELF1024]

Respect other religions in your discussions as you would like your religion respected. We expect better behavior from LDS apologists when discussing other faiths than has been demonstrated in a few of the above posts.

This is the only warning that will be given. Cheap shots or insults about any religion will result in lost posting privileges!

I apologize to those who were offended by my words.

Everything I have Mis-learned I have learned from the Terrorists and Mis-Understanders of Islam.

[Questing Beast]

In another thread I stated that Joseph Smith is viewed by Mormons similar to the way in which Muslims view Mohammed. I was then told it was very offensive to compare the two men. I was told to start a new thread if I wanted to continue the subject. So here it is.

In my defense, I wasn't so much comparing the two men as I was comparing the manner in which the religions they started view them.

Here are some similarities that I can think of:

-Mormons view Joseph Smith as the greatest prophet who ever lived.

Muslims consider Mohammed the greatest of all prophets.

(Of Course, Mormons consider Christ to be the greatest, but that depends on if you consider Christ to be a prophet or not.)

-They both produced new books of scripture. Mohammed gave Islam the Koran. Joseph gave Mormons the Book of Mormon.

-They are both considered to be a restorer of an original faith.

I find great similarities, accounting for the great difference in time and place. In fact, for many years I have asserted that if the two were switched, that the soul that became Joseph Smith would have been the creator of Islam. And the soul that became Muhammad would have created Mormonism. I think that they are that much alike, that given the same circumstances their respective souls would have responded as they did, no matter when they lived, and come up with the natural religion to that place and that time....

[KevinG]

ELF - I really have to try to separate the political events of the world from the religions that are involved. I worry that there is a mass of people among Muslims that are using their religion as an excuse for violence. On the other hand knowing the tabloid treatment Mormonism has been given from sources on the web I decided I'd better try to get the scoop from Muslims themselves on what their religious beliefs are. I'm not about to convert to Islam but by reading about it from Muslim sources I am gaining a better understanding without the somtimes unkind political filter.