cdowis Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I find great similarities, accounting for the great difference in time and place. In fact, for many years I have asserted that if the two were switched, that the soul that became Joseph Smith would have been the creator of Islam. And the soul that became Muhammad would have created Mormonism. I think that they are that much alike, that given the same circumstances their respective souls would have responded as they did, no matter when they lived, and come up with the natural religion to that place and that time....Appears to me that you are saying that Mormonism is a man-made religion, based on "the time and place". JS made a religion that fit 19th century New York, rather than direct revelation which goes beyond the time and place where he lived.This has been shown a false premise many times here on this forum. The BOM goes well beyond that old canard that it was a 19th century production.
Maidservant Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I think I have expressed myself several times on this board, hoping to clarify (mis)perceptions about Islam and Muslims. At this exact moment (it's later than midnight), I simply do not wish to repeat myself. Interested parties can check my history of posts at my profile.However, it might be of value to any who have not done so already to find what has been said about Muhammad within the leadership of the LDS Church i.e. using the Search bar of lds.org. There have been some very respectful and informative articles written over the years, and a proclamation that puts Muhammad as an inspired man (among others), and I would also remind everyone that in Preach My Gospel, thus where new investigators are taught from, he is also honored there along with Confucious and Buddha as a courageous and visionary man, etc.As you may know, the LDS humanitarian dept works with Islamic Relief Charity (I think is what it's called, could be wrong on that) to deliver humanitarian aid to countries where this would be relevant. Also there are constant opportunities that are taken and made where leaders of the church participate ecumenically with Muslims, not least to have respected Muslim leaders speak at BYU on occasion.There have been those who are LDS who study Muhammad's life or at least the traditions regarding it, who find Muhammad's Night Journey uncannily similar to an endowment experience, only in opinion of course, but not unreasonable.There is much to criticize in all systems of the world, including the Church. I myself sometimes feel like sending a letter with bullet points to the prophet regarding the singles program. But there is rarely a system that is all bad or all good . . . there is good to find in whatever we will, that has the power to support our own faith in God. Islam is one of those things, as are all the religions of the world.I will continue to give my testimony of Muhammad, and yes, it is a testimony, because I received my understanding in the same way I have received every other gospel understanding. I asked God over a decade ago: "Was Muhammad your prophet?" Because I knew the divisions in the world, and I did not want to get caught up in the "wrong" side of things without knowledge from God (as it says in James 1:5). So I wanted to know straight from God. I figured that my answer from God would be something like, "He was a misguided soul, but you should still be nice about it." I couldn't have been more mistaken. My journey of answer from that moment to this (which I should say at that time I was directed to look at the lds.org articles I have just suggested) has been (among other things), "Of course I spoke to Muhammad, and you need to know what I taught him, or you won't know everything you need to know about me."Take that as you will.
ChristKnight Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 don't Muslims claim that Muhammad was illiterate, so he couldn't have written the Quran himself?
Doctor Ninja Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 A good read from Hugh Nibley on the subject at hand: Islam and Mormonism - A comparison
Doctor Ninja Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 A lot of posts touched on another topic that I have been thinking about lately.I know all of God's children are under the Abrahamic Covenant and that the great leaders and reformers taught spiritual truths.But I have to be honest, I have a personal conflict with the fruits of Islam. I remember reading back in the 90s of an Ensign article about Islam (can anyone find this?). If I remember correctly, the entire article was on this subject describing the similarities and history of our faith. The foundational truths taught by Islam resonate with LDS beliefs, strong family unit, abstinence before marriage, health codes etc...Over the years, I have seen the foundations of Islam highjacked by those who use religion for their own ideologies. I know that isn't a politically correct statement, but the same highjacking has happened to modern day Christianity so I see that description as more of a losing the foundational truths that once were, with no intentions of "insulting" other faiths.We see good people in all faiths. I love seeing a Moslem standing for democracy and peace even with threat for doing so. We also see in the news of the unrest in the Middle East, terrorist organizations recognized as political entities, Israel threatened by their neighboring countries, suicide bombings & etc. I know it isn't safe to generalize, yet how are we suppose to interpret that 40% of British Muslims want sharia law in the country and that a fifth have sympathy with the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London? My link. I also had a good friend in school who absolutely hated Israel. He was open and frank about it.What can the experts like Daniel Peterson (and the likes) say to us who have this internal conflict with the fruits of Islam? Do we just focus on the good and forget the bad? Realize that bad apples can taint the bunch? I've tried to reason this out and approach it several ways, but the conflict remains. Thank you.
volgadon Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 The Book of Mormon doesn't require a companion novel to make sense. The Koran requires the Surahs to make sense.Which is like saying that the D&C requires the sections in order to make sense. I believe you meant to say that the Koran needs the Hadiths in order to make sense. The Koran is a fairly straightforward book. It has its share of difficult passages, but the same can be said for the BoM. The Hadiths are needed for properly interpreting the laws of the Koran in daily life. Compare the Word of Wisdom on hot drinks. I was asked on my mission if hot drinks reffered to the temperature of the drink. Is hot cocoa forbidden and ice tea allowed? Without statesments such as Brigham Young's on what hot drinks were meant, this could be a valid interpretation. 1
KevinG Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 A lot of posts touched on another topic that I have been thinking about lately.I know all of God's children are under the Abrahamic Covenant and that the great leaders and reformers taught spiritual truths.But I have to be honest, I have a personal conflict with the fruits of Islam. I remember reading back in the 90s of an Ensign article about Islam (can anyone find this?). If I remember correctly, the entire article was on this subject describing the similarities and history of our faith. The foundational truths taught by Islam resonate with LDS beliefs, strong family unit, abstinence before marriage, health codes etc...Over the years, I have seen the foundations of Islam highjacked by those who use religion for their own ideologies. I know that isn't a politically correct statement, but the same highjacking has happened to modern day Christianity so I see that description as more of a losing the foundational truths that once were, with no intentions of "insulting" other faiths.We see good people in all faiths. I love seeing a Moslem standing for democracy and peace even with threat for doing so. We also see in the news of the unrest in the Middle East, terrorist organizations recognized as political entities, Israel threatened by their neighboring countries, suicide bombings & etc. I know it isn't safe to generalize, yet how are we suppose to interpret that 40% of British Muslims want sharia law in the country and that a fifth have sympathy with the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London? My link. I also had a good friend in school who absolutely hated Israel. He was open and frank about it.What can the experts like Daniel Peterson (and the likes) say to us who have this internal conflict with the fruits of Islam? Do we just focus on the good and forget the bad? Realize that bad apples can taint the bunch? I've tried to reason this out and approach it several ways, but the conflict remains. Thank you.I am not an expert - I only play one on the internet...I have a problem with some of the actions Muslims have taken. I think hijacked is a good term for what is happening. On the other hand Islam has many good fruits (Strong family ties, sobriety, modesty, industry) that match many of the positives within the LDS culture.What we are exposed to in the news is hardly representative of the typical Muslim family and their values.I do not see them as having the fullness of revelation that the LDS do but I don't see them as an evil religion either.More to the point of the topic- it is not insulting for me to hear comparisons between Muslims and Mormons, especially when they reflect the positive aspects of the two faiths.
HeatherAnn Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) Yeah, we share a lot in common with Muslims...Similarities between Mormonism & Islam:http://nowscape.com/...imilarities.htmPersonally, my impression of Muslims is mostly good.Yeah, I realize extreme Muslims have attacked our country & want to more.Yet, one of my best friends & 2 of my roommates are Muslim.Living with them, I learned how dedicated they are to their religion, but also down-to-earth.My Muslim friend helped me live my religion & was a good example on a daily basis, when we went out, dancing, or on a family vacation together.One of them went to one of our LDS Universities.It breaks my heart that moderate Muslims with good intent are mislabeled & probably persecuted. Edited June 28, 2011 by HeatherAnn 2
Pahoran Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 I find great similarities, accounting for the great difference in time and place. In fact, for many years I have asserted that if the two were switched, that the soul that became Joseph Smith would have been the creator of Islam. And the soul that became Muhammad would have created Mormonism. I think that they are that much alike, that given the same circumstances their respective souls would have responded as they did, no matter when they lived, and come up with the natural religion to that place and that time....Yes, Mormonism was in every way "the natural religion to that place and that time." Which of course explains why none of the Saints' neighbours could stand it, and insisted on it being expelled from among them.Long before the Expositor; long before plural marriage; long before Sidney Rigdon started getting bombastic in Fourth of July speeches; long before Sampson Avard decided that the Danites would be a good way for him to advance his own ambitions; right back when all anyone ever knew about Mormonism was that there was something called The Book of Mormon, that fact alone was enough to create howls of "Blasphemy!" and motivate actual violence against the Saints. Because it was "the natural religion to that place and time."That's a Tui Billboard moment right there.Actually it is trivially easy to draw up lists of similarities between any two things in the world, and especially any two things of the same general classification. A little more care and thought reveals that the similarities between Mormonism and Islam are relatively unimportant.Regards,Pahoran 1
Jeff K. Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 The imam nearby is a friend of mine. We talk sometimes. I appreciate their love and dedication and their excellent food.The questions in Islam are difficult to answer since it isn't a monolithic organization with a tightly controlled doctrine (much as ours is). Much of what is interpreted depends on the various imams. For instance some say you should never enter a store which sells alcohol, others state that you simply should not go down the aisle with alcohol, others that just don't buy it.... and so on. I can easily see our church spiraling in such a way without a prophet. My friend did say that it would make his job easier, but the difference also makes Muslims work harder at understanding the scriptures than you or I do. They are, and can be an excellent people to interact with.
kolipoki09 Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) The imam nearby is a friend of mine. We talk sometimes. I appreciate their love and dedication and their excellent food.If 95 percent of Americans tried a Falafel, I have a feeling interfaith relations with Muslims would be much better. The other five percent represent the 'Mercans who only eat 'Mercan food. Edited June 29, 2011 by kolipoki09 1
KevinG Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 If 95 percent of Americans tried a Felafel, I have a feeling interfaith relations with Muslims would be much better. The other five percent represent the 'Mercans who only eat 'Mercan food.And if more Americans ate Taco Bell...never mind- bad example.
volgadon Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 If 95 percent of Americans tried a Felafel, I have a feeling interfaith relations with Muslims would be much better. The other five percent represent the 'Mercans who only eat 'Mercan food.I'm actually going to be making some soon, my (non-'Mercan) wife has never had them. Tehina and salad too, of course. One of the best places is Falafel Anabi in Tiberias. Family-run business since the early 1950s. All the salads, pickles and sauces you could ever want. Best felafel though is made by a Christian in Mughar down the street from the Catholic church. Soft, not too crisp or soggy, and the best mix of flavours.
Acris Venator Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Both produced scriptures/suras that said it is right to kill for righteousness sake.
LeSellers Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Both produced scriptures/suras that said it is right to kill for righteousness sake.Right along with the Bible.Lehi
LeSellers Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Both produced scriptures/suras ...Why, prithee, would you link "scriptures" and "suras" like this? Do you know what a "sura" is? It's not parallel to "scripture". It's may be accurate, but it is very misleading to say "Mohammed wrote 'suras'." I write books. I write a lot of books. Each one (with rare exception) has multiple chapters, but I do not tell people I write "chapters". They would really have to reflect on that, were I to say it, and they would miss the point about what I do. Lehi
Jeff K. Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 I would like to add that much of what is presently deemed doctrinal was and may still be considered open to interpretation. For example the "Hadith" and/or Sunna are a list of sayings (much like proverbs) that are supposed to help guide everyone, but they are NOT considered the equivalent of the word of God, they also have laws and traditions, but again, not necessarily directly from God. There is much that could be debated when Islam is more open to such dialogue.
Calm Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 I'm actually going to be making some soon, my (non-'Mercan) wife has never had them. Tehina and salad too, of course. One of the best places is Falafel Anabi in Tiberias. Family-run business since the early 1950s. All the salads, pickles and sauces you could ever want. Best felafel though is made by a Christian in Mughar down the street from the Catholic church. Soft, not too crisp or soggy, and the best mix of flavours.Good receipe for falafe pleasel...haven't yet found one my husband likes.
Calm Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 -Mormons view Joseph Smith as the greatest prophet who ever lived. I wonder how true this is. I don't 'rate' prophets myself in comparison to each other, but more to what is said about how they did their calling in the scriptures. If they each did what they were called to do, then how can we call one greater than another?
Jeff K. Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Rivers, on 27 June 2011 - 11:25 AM, said: -Mormons view Joseph Smith as the greatest prophet who ever lived.I wonder how true this is. I don't 'rate' prophets myself in comparison to each other, but more to what is said about how they did their calling in the scriptures. If they each did what they were called to do, then how can we call one greater than another? I am with Calimoriah in this. I could not rate prophets very easily given I am not aware of all they have done. Adam for instance, Moses, Noah who saw the wholesale destruction of his people and had to rebuild. I would not want to choose. As a Latter-day Saint it is not my place to judge the greatest from the least. Some do hale Joseph Smith the greatest, there is cause for that, but I do not know enough to choose myself.
LeSellers Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 I could not rate prophets very easily given I am not aware of all they have done. Adam for instance, Moses, Noah who saw the wholesale destruction of his people and had to rebuild. I would not want to choose. As a Latter-day Saint it is not my place to judge the greatest from the least. Some do hale Joseph Smith the greatest, there is cause for that, but I do not know enough to choose myself.Of course, there is another way to measure them:There are those who hate Joseph Smith the most. This is not really fair, however, since the others are safely dead and, to a very great degree, anonymous. Lehi
Doctor Ninja Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 So Joseph Smith's "greatness" is debatable, but I hope "that he has done more for the salvation of men, save Jesus only" is not debatable. Unless of course, you don't believe the Doctrine and Covenants is canon.
Jeff K. Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) For this dispensation I think the position is quite accurate.In addition I would also note that keys presented now, which may not have been available before would make the statement true quite plausible. Edited June 30, 2011 by Jeff K.
Rivers Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 I wonder how true this is. I don't 'rate' prophets myself in comparison to each other, but more to what is said about how they did their calling in the scriptures. If they each did what they were called to do, then how can we call one greater than another?Remember what John Taylor said about Joseph Smith?
Rivers Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 So Joseph Smith's "greatness" is debatable, but I hope "that he has done more for the salvation of men, save Jesus only" is not debatable. Unless of course, you don't believe the Doctrine and Covenants is canon.I don't doubt that Joseph performed a great work. The problem is that Joseph lived only a couple hundred years ago and we know too much about all his faults and imperfections. I think it is difficult for a lot of people to give a lot of praise to somebody as flawed as Joseph Smith.
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