The Problem Of Pain

[Lamanite]

Since my conversion to Mormonism I have found great satisfaction with the Church as a an institution and especially with the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. Mormon theology is very rewarding to me. It satisfies me and adds depth and meaning to what would have been a tragic and aimless existence. I have no major issues with the History of the Church, its teaching, doctrines, or faith based claims. However, over the years, and especially as I approach my 40's, I find that my biggest "issue" is with God himself and the problem of pain.

C.S. Lewis said it best:

"...the possibility of pain is inherent in the very existence of a world where souls can meet. When souls become wicked they will certainly use this possibility to hurt one another; and this, perhaps, accounts for four-fifths of the suffering of men." Problem of Pain pg 86. (emphasis added)

It is true that God's respect for the agency of man precludes his forceable interference. He lovingly allows accepts our free will offerings, charitable actions, and indeed looks with understanding and mercy towards our "sins and misdeeds" (D. Christofferson), so that his "Atonement [may] ransom man from the Fall" and indeed himself. Out of respect for the laws of nature and the sacrosanct nature of our agency he simply allows himself the ability to influence us "only by ^cpersuasion, by ^dlong-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;" (D&C 121)

So I happily concede that in mortality, God remains the author and master tutor of our compressed curriculum, which at times seems to be accelerated by affliction. But in the words of the Theologia Germanica, xxc, "nature hath a horror of it."

• Natural Disasters- Haiti, 2010 Earthquate - still counting. Most estimates now exceed 220,000 dead.
• Every year 15 million children die of hunger
• In 2008, malaria caused nearly one million deaths, mostly among African children.

Without violating the agency of man, it seems that God could have provided a world where our trials and tribulations, which seem to be plentiful due to our own fallen states and poor choices, would provide plenty of learning experiences and opportunities to be valiant, obedient, and cultivate the attributes of Eternal beings. This could, in my opinion, take place without forcing innocent children to suffer needlessly and who in most cases don't have the cognitive abilities to "learn" from their experience.

President Eyring said in this months Ensign, "To receive the gift of living with Him forever in families in the celestial kingdom, we must be able to live the laws of that kingdom (see D&C 88:22). He has given us commandments in this life to help us develop that capacity." I just can't see how a 3 year old child who is suffering from malnutrition, malaria, and a very slow painful death needs these experiences.

Surely, an Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omni-benevolent God could have created a plan of salvation where our trials of obedience and growth could come from 3 sources, our own choices; the choices of others; and those special circumstances when the Lord says to us, "I did it, saith the Lord, to prove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice." D&C 132:51.

Of course I express my limited understanding, foresight, and overall ignorance relative to God's. I do not understand. My heart hurts for the needless suffering of certain people in certain situations. I don't understand. And I can't reconcile the God of I love; the God I know through Mormonism- with the suffering of millions of his children throughout the world.

Thoughts?

Big UP!

Lamanite

[Nathair/|\]

Ultimately, all we can do is to say with Nephi, " I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things. " (1 Nephi 11:17) However, I think we do have a few insights, especially if we consider why we are here in the first place and that it was all explained to us before we were born. Having recently gone through an emotionally difficult time, these are some things I've found helpful.

] Greetings aspiring heroes. Today I'm going to start off with some of the worst advice you can ever get:Every cloud has its silver lining.

When one door closes, another door opens.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Okay, the idea itself isn't bad. It's usually true—no matter how crushing something might seem, it can probably teach you something valuable about yourself. It may even lead to new opportunities. In fact, contrary to popular belief, optimism is slightly more realistic than pessimism (unless you're a lawyer). Heck, some people even have the wherewithal to celebrate their failure.So the whole silver-cloud thing isn't necessarily wrong. Then why is it bad advice?

Because you don't want to hear that rigamarole when you're down.

Seriously. Dumped by your boyfriend? The silver lining can eat it. Fired from work? Closed doors are bullcrap. Someone you love has a tumor? Do you think "being stronger" is the first of your three wishes?

These well-intentioned nothings are not very helpful when the guano hits the fan.

Drew Jacobs: Living the Heroic Life.

I don't know that there is much that can be usefully said about suffering to someone while they are currently suffering. The only thing I have found effective is "I love you, I'm here for you." and sometimes, "Lets do something to distract you for a few moments. Lets find you a little Joy to help you get through this."

But as Drew Jacobs further points out, there are things you can do in advance of suffering to help prepare for it.

Do something that completely sucks.Recently I wrote about my first experiences living in the wilderness with nothing. They're experiences I treasure, but they were by no means easy. When most people go camping they take a tent, some good food, and a case of beer. I enjoy that kind of camping. But living off the land is different than that: building shelter with your bare hands, catching or foraging your own food, and generally inventing, improvising, or doing without any tool that you might be used to having.

I expected to get a whole lot of comments saying "I could never do that!" and telling me how crazy I was.

But, something else happened.

Instead I got a whole lot of people telling me about the hardest experiencesthey freely chose to do, and how it changed their lives. Camping in tornado weather, living in the Sahara, even sleeping by a steam vent in a volcano. (Seriously, that guy rocks.)

None of these people said their experiences were easy. Neither did I. In fact, learning to eat insect eggs kind of totally sucks. Most of us were terrified, and every one of us could have chosen to quit, or not go at all.

But we didn't. The thing we all agree on is: it was so worth it.

Why? Is it because we're all hopeless adrenaline junkies? Do we just crave abuse? Mom didn't hug us enough?

No, I'm going to throw out a different explanation. When you choose to willingly enter into a hardship, you get to try out your instincts and reactions under controlled conditions. You have a sense of what's coming, you can do your best to prepare for it, and you know it's only temporary. So when the bottom drops out you get to see how you handle panic and strain without actually experiencing trauma.

I think that that has something to do with why we are here on earth. We are preparing for something unimaginably difficult and unimaginably glorious.

There is a reason why some African tribes used to send young boys on the cusp of becoming men out into the forest to survive on their own for a period. There is a reason why young men in some of the local plains tribes here in Montana and surrounding areas used to (and may still do, for all I know) push sharp objects through the flesh of their chests and tie them to the top of a pole, then dance until they ripped out. There is a reason why BUDS, the basic training to become a SEAL is so brutal. These are just a few of many such examples.

These things prepare you for the greater challenges that lie ahead. I think that Earth life is supposed to be the same kind of thing. We came here willingly, knowing that what we experienced here would help us prepare for what comes next.

When that doesn't help, the last thing I have to offer is this. Your Savior loves you. He went through everything you are going through and if you let Him, He will be there for you.

Yours under the oaks that want to help, but aren't sure if anything they say will do any good.

Nathair /|\

Edited June 18, 2011 by Nathair

[frankenstein]

Of course I express my limited understanding, foresight, and overall ignorance relative to God's. I do not understand. My heart hurts for the needless suffering of certain people in certain situations. I don't understand. And I can't reconcile the God of I love; the God I know through Mormonism- with the suffering of millions of his children throughout the world.

Thoughts?

Big UP!

Lamanite

I don't understand it either, but I like what was posted above

Ultimately, all we can do is to say with Nephi, " I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things. " (1 Nephi 11:17)

Though, tend to expand on something Christ said about the man being born blind, the man was born blind that the glory of God may be made manifest. I see the glory of God as love and concern for our fellow man, thus, other people suffer that those who have the abilities may manifest the glory of God in their helping others. Granted this does not cover alot of things.

I can tell you that you are not alone in being bewildered about all the pain and suffering in the world, whether it is naturally occuring or inflicted by mankind.

[Lamanite]

To both Frankenstein and Nathair.

Let me again reiterate that any pain or suffering cause by the 3 instances I mentioned fit nicely within the plan of salvation and are often capable of creating beings who are fit to live Eternal lives with God.

1. Our own choices

2. The choices of others

3. Special circumstances, like in the case of Abraham, where God designs a special course of instruction for us through trial, tribulation, or some type of personalized instruction/test.

Outside of these three examples, the problem of pain becomes extremely difficult to reconcile within Mormon theological tenets. Especially when we get very very specific.

Example:

"news that two cherished little ones had perished alone in a field on a bitter Saskatchewan night, wearing nothing more than T-shirts and diapers. "I feel sad, I don't like to talk much," said Pearl Pauchay, the grief-stricken grandmother of little Kaydance Pauchay, 3, and her sister Santana, who was only a year old. "It's sad to have a loss."

...Both bodies had been covered by blowing snow. What little clothing they had offered the youngsters no chance of survival against a wind chill that had dipped around -50 C that night." Yellow Quill Reserve

Now in this instance, it would not have violated any natural laws that I can think of if God would have built these little ones a fire and sent an his angels round about to bear them up. He made water come from a rock for Moses to provide life and sustenance and he allowed Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego to survive a the natural element of fire without dying. Why couldn't he, in all of his mercy and Omni-benevolence, save these two innocent children? Now multiply that tragedy by the millions of children who suffer from lack of food, clothing, shelter, sickness and then ask if you can honestly say like Nephi, God loves his children. These are not issues of agency. For God to allow these innocent ones to forgo a type of suffering that their intellect is incapable of understanding, would seem more congruent with the God and Savior that I have come to know. I am having difficulty reconciling the inaction of a God I believe has the ability to alleviate some of the needless suffering of the world.

I have been cold before. I have never starved but I have been hungry enough to cry myself to sleep as a child. I prayed for God to help me be warm and find some food. I received no answer and I was left confused and hungry. I told God I would be good and do what he wanted. Please just help me and my little sister find food and warmth. You know what I got? My Dad died that month in a train wreck and things got worse. I think maybe God could have multiplied a loaf of bread or two and some milk so at least my little sister could have eaten.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

Lamanite,

I don't understand the problem of suffering/evil either. However, I think there may be another category than the three you list. Perhaps, for whatever reason, some people chose the circumstances they were born into by covenant in the pre-mortal life. This is total speculation on my part, and I don't think it applies 100%. However, don't forget that this life is just act two of a three act play. We don't know what happened in act one or what will happen in act three.

Edited June 18, 2011 by DispensatorMysteriorum

[staccato]

I don't understand it either, but I like what was posted above

" I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things. " (1 Nephi 11:17)

Really? This world is God's idea of loving his children? This does not explain the nature of suffering and pain. At. All. It requires some serious distortion and myopic exclusion of some very inconvenient truths about the history and current state of man in order to do so. Even if one goes the deistic route and chooses to exclude God's involvement with mankind, it still does not negate the reality that God designed such a plan and put those wheels in motion.

With this kind of love, it makes you glad God doesn't hate his children, huh?

[Lamanite]

Often time the existence of evil and the problem of pain can be explained through the Mormon belief that "all these things shall give thee experience". OK, that's fine. I buy that. However like Staccato said, this explains only a portion of human suffering and the needless suffering of children specifically throughout the world, and through no fault of their own, does not mesh very well with an All-Powerful/All- Loving God.

Jus Sayin,

Big UP!

Lamanite

[Libs]

That's a very difficult question, Lamanite.

I have read various explanations for suffering, including the idea of "karma" (cycle of cause and effect through reincarnation), and even some Christians buy into a sort of "karmic" explanation, believing that even babies are born in sin and there is no such thing as innocence.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t023.htm

Since “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), there is no one who has the right to freedom from God's wrath on the basis of his own innocence.

As far as babies are concerned, and others who may be incompetent mentally to distinguish right and wrong, it is clear from both Scripture and universal experience that they are sinners by nature and thus will inevitably become sinners by choice as soon as they are able to do so.

I don't like the idea of "innocents" being victimized by a fallen world they, seemingly, had no choice in creating, but I can kind of understand and agree to the possibility that we are victims, to some extent, of a fallen world, where even nature is often deadly. This doesn't quite fit in with LDS theology (I don't think?) where The Fall was considered necessary, so that we could learn through our choices. The Fall (if it is true history) may very well have been much more deadly and devastating than we know (or want to believe). I cannot believe a God of love would have wanted that kind of suffering for us. It's even difficult to imagine that he is allowing it, let alone that he had any part in creating it. I don't believe he did. So, the "Fallen World" theory seems most logical...a world that Satan..and man created.

Edited June 18, 2011 by Libs

[shalamabobbi]

I think an appreciation for the lessons learned from suffering is an acquired perception belonging to the more mature.

Suffering is but for a moment from an eternal perspective. Certainly it would have little value if it were of infinite duration.

The separation of death deepens love for one another when otherwise we might tend to take each other for granted.

Who would you rather spend time with, a community of people who have suffered through many trials of various kinds or one consisting of spoiled silver spoon children grown to adults with never a restraint upon any of their wants or desires.

Who has more depth, Helen Keller or Paris Hilton. (No offense Paris if you are reading this board.. just sayin')

news that two cherished little ones had perished alone in a field on a bitter Saskatchewan night, wearing nothing more than T-shirts and diapers. "I feel sad, I don't like to talk much," said Pearl Pauchay, the grief-stricken grandmother of little Kaydance Pauchay, 3, and her sister Santana, who was only a year old. "It's sad to have a loss.

The responsibility here is the parents/guardians. Some responsibility will fall upon those in positions of power. But HF is not responsible to step in and do for us what we can and ought to do for ourselves as parents and members of society. In fact He will hold us accountable.

Some suffering may simply be the inevitable result of the nature of this world in which we live. We apparently agreed to the experience and thought it more valuable with all its trials and deprivations than remaining unembodied.

[Calm]

Often time the existence of evil and the problem of pain can be explained through the Mormon belief that "all these things shall give thee experience". OK, that's fine. I buy that. However like Staccato said, this explains only a portion of human suffering and the needless suffering of children specifically throughout the world, and through no fault of their own, does not mesh very well with an All-Powerful/All- Loving God.

It is to me the ultimate test of whether or not we are willing to trust God in all things. If life made sense, there would be little need for this kind of trust. OTOH, how can we become one with someone if we do not fully give ourselves to them with this level of trust?

[Biz]

This is a great question. I have asked this before and was referred to this book as being a good read on the topic. My link"God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer." Dr. Ehrman

Biz

Edited June 18, 2011 by Biz

[Lamanite]

I think an appreciation for the lessons learned from suffering is an acquired perception belonging to the more mature. and thought it more valuable with all its trials and deprivations than remaining unembodied.

Thanks! I sure wish I had you to tell me I was not "mature" enough to appreciate my suffering including cold, hunger, racism, and last but not least abuse. If only as a young child I could have to myself and my younger sister that we just need to trust in God and be more mature (a euphemistic statement for "suck it up") LOL. Our freezing and hunger had an eternal purpose. LOL. Tell that to the 2yr old girl whose pelvis is snapped in 4 places as her wicked uncle rapes her unconscious.

Thanks!

Big UP!

Lamanite

[Lamanite]

It is to me the ultimate test of whether or not we are willing to trust God in all things. If life made sense, there would be little need for this kind of trust. OTOH, how can we become one with someone if we do not fully give ourselves to them with this level of trust?

As an adult I am willing to trust while being honest enough to say I don't understand. I will not/cannot concede that innocent suffering by those who lack the cognitive ability to appreciate and grow from their trials has any value whatsover. I also think the God I have come to know through spiritual experiences too sacred and too numerous to mention, I can say with confidence that I can't reconcile the God of love I worship and the God of Nature who allows all of the worlds suffering, despite his Omnipotence.

Big UP!

Lamanite

PS - Are you going to the final talk tonight in Springville?

[Lamanite]

Some suffering may simply be the inevitable result of the nature of this world in which we live. We apparently agreed to the experience and thought it more valuable with all its trials and deprivations than remaining unembodied.

The apparant assumption seems a little ludicrous to my brother who became so thirsty he begged for food and water and ultimately tried to drink gasoline to quench his thirst. Have you ever been that young and thirsty? This apparent agreement in the Premortal seems rather presumptuous when I consider that my 5 yr old brother was stabbed repeated in the ear with a high heel shoe until he became deaf, because he ate a can of soup. After the beating in the ear, his body was pressed into an old fashioned wall heater until his skin burned off and left a waffle type scar.

Yeah....that sounds about right. God of Love. God of Mercy. All Powerful. He couldn't have just spared my brother the gasoline drinking by providing a cool drink of water like he did for Moses? Why couldn't he give me and my starving brothers manna from Heaven? Oh wait, we should have had more faith and been more mature.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[Calm]

I will not/cannot concede that innocent suffering by those who lack the cognitive ability to appreciate and grow from their trials has any value whatsover.

I don't have a problem with this position if it includes something along the lines of "I do not know why on this point, but I will continue to act on what I do know instead of allowing this unknown to overshadow all else". I have seen a few who have let this one concern essentially rewrite everything else they've experienced because they so greatly need to understand and to "know" something.

PS - Are you going to the final talk tonight in Springville?

Forgot I had a grandson's b-day party to go to....don't know how long that will last.

[shalamabobbi]

Thanks! I sure wish I had you to tell me I was not "mature" enough to appreciate my suffering including cold, hunger, racism, and last but not least abuse. If only as a young child I could have to myself and my younger sister that we just need to trust in God and be more mature (a euphemistic statement for "suck it up") LOL. Our freezing and hunger had an eternal purpose. LOL. Tell that to the 2yr old girl whose pelvis is snapped in 4 places as her wicked uncle rapes her unconscious.

Thanks!

Big UP!

Lamanite

Hey Lamanite,

I understand things in a very different light than I did say 20 years ago. So by mature I am refering to age.

I too suffered some sexual abuse as a child and had to wade through that trial and it was not a "trivial" experience but I never felt that God had an obligation to step in and prevent it or that He didn't love me because He allowed it to happen.

Given the choice of deciding whether or not to come into this world again if I had it to do over I would still decide to come. I have a deeper appreciation of the healing that has come because of the atonement even though it was perhaps more difficult for me to find it.

If you wish to take offense from any of this feel free but none is intended and I am not telling anyone to "suck it up". I have a "Lamanite" girlfriend so have some understanding of the racial issues as well though I am a cracker myself..

Robert

[Lamanite]

I don't have a problem with this position if it includes something along the lines of "I do not know why on this point, but I will continue to act on what I do know instead of allowing this unknown to overshadow all else". I have seen a few who have let this one concern essentially rewrite everything else they've experienced because they so greatly need to understand and to "know" something.Forgot I had a grandson's b-day party to go to....don't know how long that will last.

Not until the last year or so has this issue really bothered me. It has been on a mental shelf for quite some time. Typically people leave Mormonism because of Mormon related issues. I am have Mormon related issues because I have a very big problem with how I reconcile some competing ideas about the God I believe and know, and evidence of God's passive allowance/direct causal actions.

If God is:

1. Omnipotent

2. Omniscient

3. Omnipresent

4. Omnibenevolent

And If I take these at face value, (without qualifications) then that creates a big problem when trying to explain innocent suffering (I think I coined that term :-). This suffering/pain has nothing to do whatever with the suffering cause by agency or God's tutoring. It has to do with God's ability to intervene without violating the principles of the Universe (because he's become involved before as evidence by the scriptural canon), and Him simply not doing so on a massive scale. I'm sure through our own choices and the choices of others we can come up with enough mortal experiences to develop Celestial characteristics. And if not, God has proven that he can and will wrench our very heart strings to prove us if necessary.

Now, let me reassure you, I am not leaving the faith. But I will be honest with you and say, for some reason I'm having a hard time with this right now. Probably because of what I went through as an innocent child, and partly because of the innocent suffering I see throughout the world. It's very hard for me.

Big UP!

Lamanite

P.S. I will miss you tonight! You're one of the good ones.

[Lamanite]

Hey Lamanite,

I understand things in a very different light than I did say 20 years ago. So by mature I am refering to age.

I too suffered some sexual abuse as a child and had to wade through that trial and it was not a "trivial" experience but I never felt that God had an obligation to step in and prevent it or that He didn't love me because He allowed it to happen.

Given the choice of deciding whether or not to come into this world again if I had it to do over I would still decide to come. I have a deeper appreciation of the healing that has come because of the atonement even though it was perhaps more difficult for me to find it.

If you wish to take offense from any of this feel free but none is intended and I am not telling anyone to "suck it up". I have a "Lamanite" girlfriend so have some understanding of the racial issues as well though I am a cracker myself..

Robert

I'm just get over zealous. The restored Gospel of Jesus Christ has allowed me to view my innocent suffering through the lens of faith, and I am better for it. However, I am a mere mortal and I think that an all Loving God who also happens to be all Powerful could have created a world in which we still were able to increase our discipleship, without enduring some of the atrocities I go through, and which I see.

That is the problem I'm having. Simply put, when dealing with specifics like the two frozen babies, I just shake my head and wonder how and why God allows these things to happen when he has proven through times past that he can and does prevent them. Why not just create a world where that level of innocent suffering is absent. Like I've said before, I'm sure the "natural man" could provide plenty of learning experiences; God does not need to recruit Celestial beings by allowing millions of kids to starve to death. Have you been with a starving child? I just can't reconcile it.

But I do want to find and answer.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[Calm]

But I will be honest with you and say, for some reason I'm having a hard time with this right now. Probably because of what I went through as an innocent child, and partly because of the innocent suffering I see throughout the world. It's very hard for me.

And I will be honest with you in saying I don't understand why God has given me everything including a strong desire to serve others and the resources to do it save one essential ingredient---the health needed to actually do anything significant. It seems so very counterproductive for him to give me talents in this area and a support system and then end up with all these 'things' just sitting around at loose ends because I can't actually make use of them. I don't understand the value of this myself because it seems what I have learned could be learned in other ways that benefit more people than just myself.

There are many things in the world that don't make sense, some are trivial and some---like your concern--are extremely important to understand and yet God has not given it to us to understand in my opinion, but rather to accept on faith. I have come to my own terms on why this is necessary, but this is one thing imo that everyone has to figure out for him or herself through encountering God however that might be.

[Lamanite]

But HF is not responsible to step in and do for us what we can and ought to do for ourselves as parents and members of society. In fact He will hold us accountable.

But he is capable. The widows cruz never went empty. Manna was plentiful. Water was given to Israel. The 5000 were fed with leftovers. HE IS CAPABLE OF INTERVENING. So why not? To your point of accountability, all of these people could have prepared better. Their own choices left them without. But God showed mercy and love. So why not all the time. There would be plenty of learning experiences left I'm sure. (If you doubt me consider he is all seeing and all knowing and always present, I'm sure he could come up with object lessons sufficient to increase our capacity and discipleship.)

Big UP!

Lamanite

[Mike Richards]

I will not/cannot concede that innocent suffering by those who lack the cognitive ability to appreciate and grow from their trials has any value whatsover.

If it's true that a portion of the purpose of this life is to learn through experiences with our physical body, then it seems to me to be reasonable that the mature spirit within a suffering child is learning invaluable lessons even when the child isn't. I trust that, when the veil is removed, what seems here like senseless suffering will be valuable experiences to those who suffered.

[Lamanite]

And I will be honest with you in saying I don't understand why God has given me everything including a strong desire to serve others and the resources to do it save one essential ingredient---the health needed to actually do anything significant. It seems so very counterproductive for him to give me talents in this area and a support system and then end up with all these 'things' just sitting around at loose ends because I can't actually make use of them.

As our conversion and discipleship increase, I believe our frustration from trials like this often morph into those instances where we may say, "help thou my unbelief", and more often than not I find the Savior quickly quickly follows with the restorative statement ,"Lazarus, COME FORTH!" Or, "Women, where are those thine accusers? Hath no man condemned thee?" How wonderful it is when the awful arithmetic of the Atonement finally becomes clear, and we realize that the final sums on our balance sheet are always black and never in the red.

There are many things in the world that don't make sense, some are trivial and some---like your concern--are extremely important to understand and yet God has not given it to us to understand in my opinion, but rather to accept on faith. I have come to my own terms on why this is necessary, but this is one thing imo that everyone has to figure out for him or herself through encountering God however that might be.

Nevertheless, I freely admit I don't know. I pray for patience. But it has tried my faith. My heart knows God, but sometimes he seems absent from the world I view. To be sure, pain is often times God's megaphone to a deaf world, but those who suffer innocently are often confused and frightened by such a loud device being used when a gentle hug and pat on the bottom would have sufficed.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[CV75]

Of course I express my limited understanding, foresight, and overall ignorance relative to God's. I do not understand. My heart hurts for the needless suffering of certain people in certain situations. I don't understand. And I can't reconcile the God of I love; the God I know through Mormonism- with the suffering of millions of his children throughout the world.

Reconciling our thoughts, feelings and actions with God’s is the blessing of the Atonement. We may not have full reconciliation yet, but we can be on our way by remaining faithful and true.

I would say that as one develops selfless empathy for those who suffer, he can gain insight into this reconciliation. Amulek may have learned this in Alma 14. He had great empathy, and even faith in the means that could surely stop the suffering, but Alma understood the need for the suffering because he was more fully reconciled to God.

Even a suffering little child on some eternal level is one with Christ’s suffering, and this will feed into the Lord’s ultimate purposes for the child as well as all the forces and influences that hurt him. As we alleviate suffering, we are also one with Christ’s suffering and purposes. As with Alma, we are reconciled when we recognize the right thing to do when faced with another’s suffering. Sometimes it requires properly facing much suffering of our own, with the Lord, to develop this capacity, which is a closeness with the Spirit..

[CV75]

Of course I express my limited understanding, foresight, and overall ignorance relative to God's. I do not understand. My heart hurts for the needless suffering of certain people in certain situations. I don't understand. And I can't reconcile the God of I love; the God I know through Mormonism- with the suffering of millions of his children throughout the world.

duplicated by time-out issues

Edited June 18, 2011 by CV75

[Calm]

"help thou my unbelief"

One of my favourite scriptures. The other is "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."