What If God Is A Woman?

[jo1952]

It's not a "compulsion", it's simply the doctrine. God is a man, in that he has a physical body that is easily identified as "male" in the same way other human bodies are. He doesn't have a "feminine side", he has a wife who is a separate physical being that is female in the same way human females are female. This is "emphasized" because of the implications for our eternal state; they are the example for us.

If you listen to the teachings of LDS Church leaders, I think you'll find that they're 99% "actions and thoughts towards God's children", and 1% "God has a body".

I am listening very very intently. I'd like nothing more than for that sentiment (99% loving actions and thoughts toward Gods children") to be true. Unfortunatly in my view, it is not. There's no room for it with all the shame, guilt and fear themes in what is taught in church every Sunday.

The focus on the body is really interesting. It is well known Mormon men have 'issues' with pornography. Why do you think this is?

Sexual repression breeds this problem and repression is rampant in the LDS church. All this focus of 'rising above carnal bodily desires and yet the 'grand prize' for the Priesthood is that they get to live this Hugh Heffner existence just constantly having sex in the Celestial Kingdom. Wow. That's so 'rising above the body'.??? What a sacrifice you make as men. Wait a take one for the team.

So the message is 'At one time when Joseph Smith had a 'revelation' of Polygamy (he had an affair with the Alder girl way before he claimed to have this revelation by the way and he also married women who were already married) and it was a requirement. Because Brigham Young realized Utah couldn't become a state with Polygamy it was 'revealed' it was time to stop but in the afterlife polygamy is expected again. A REQUIREMENT to be in the presence of God in the highest glory in fact.

Sounds wishy washy to me. Sounds chauvenistic and definately manmade and nothing whatsoever to do with the plan of God.

The eternal state. Sounds like a man gets everything he wants. He gets to be a God. All of the trappings of an earthly life but better. It is sad to me the only way you can embrace the great mystery of what happens after this life is to deny the mystery and trust in God and subscribe to a wacky egotistical story jospeh smith made up that you as men are comfortable with...

A magical kingdom where everything revolves around Men. How lovely for you.

You appear to be yet another anti-LDS who is trolling the Internet looking for places to voice your pre-programmed hate speech. Now, if you were to use the same standards of judgment you use against the LDS and apply them to your own personal beliefs about God, you would find that the Bible itself would fail those standards. The Bible is filled with the very same chauvenism for those who choose to see it as such; yet we know that this is a gross misconception of what the Bible actually teaches. The majority of mankind consistently rejects Prophets of God. The same thing happened to the most important and greatest Prophet ever to walk the earth. It's been about 2000 years since they crucified Him.

You are a child of God who has been promised you can be a joint heir with Jesus Christ. Have you ever given serious consideration to what that really looks like beyond just repeating those words? Don't let the teachings of man continue to blind you. Your spirit is of great worth to our Heavenly Father. The Holy Ghost is waiting to be able to lead you to all truth; man does not have that power. It is the Holy Ghost who can witness personally to your spirit here upon the earth; Spirit to spirit. Prepare yourself prayerfully in all sincerity and humility and allow Him to do so. Rejoice in the risen Christ; edifying others in the process! Love one another, even as Christ loves us!

Peace,

jo

[cinepro]

It is well known Mormon men have 'issues' with pornography. Why do you think this is?

My theory is that Mormon men really like to look at naked women the same way non-Mormon men do, and some have better self control than others.

I've submitted a grant proposal for a study on the subject; I'll let you know what I'm able to find out.

The eternal state. Sounds like a man gets everything he wants. He gets to be a God. All of the trappings of an earthly life but better. It is sad to me the only way you can embrace the great mystery of what happens after this life is to deny the mystery and trust in God and subscribe to a wacky egotistical story jospeh smith made up that you as men are comfortable with...

A magical kingdom where everything revolves around Men. How lovely for you.

Seriously, have you ever been to an LDS Church service? Reading your post, I was reminded of this exchange between Bart Simpson and his Grandpa while at the Smithsonian:

Abe: This is the Wright Brothers' plane. In 1903, Charles Lindberg flew it 50 miles on a thimblefull of corn oil. Single-handedly won us the Civil War, he did.

Bart: Wow, Grandpa. How do you know so much about history?

Abe: I pieced it together mostly from sugar packets.

[Mars]

Abe: This is the Wright Brothers' plane. In 1903, Charles Lindberg flew it 50 miles on a thimblefull of corn oil. Single-handedly won us the Civil War, he did.

Bart: Wow, Grandpa. How do you know so much about history?

Abe: I pieced it together mostly from sugar packets.

We can't bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell 'em stories that don't go anywhere... like the time I took the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go over to Morganville, which was what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days nickels had pictures of bumblebees on them. "Give me five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where was I? Oh yeah... the important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. You couldn't get any white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones..."

[Calm]

'At one time when ...

IF you are going to criticize the history of something, it looks more credible if you get it right.

[IloveaMormon]

You appear to be yet another anti-LDS who is trolling the Internet looking for places to voice your pre-programmed hate speech. Now, if you were to use the same standards of judgment you use against the LDS and apply them to your own personal beliefs about God, you would find that the Bible itself would fail those standards. The Bible is filled with the very same chauvenism for those who choose to see it as such; yet we know that this is a gross misconception of what the Bible actually teaches. The majority of mankind consistently rejects Prophets of God. The same thing happened to the most important and greatest Prophet ever to walk the earth. It's been about 2000 years since they crucified Him.

You are a child of God who has been promised you can be a joint heir with Jesus Christ. Have you ever given serious consideration to what that really looks like beyond just repeating those words? Don't let the teachings of man continue to blind you. Your spirit is of great worth to our Heavenly Father. The Holy Ghost is waiting to be able to lead you to all truth; man does not have that power. It is the Holy Ghost who can witness personally to your spirit here upon the earth; Spirit to spirit. Prepare yourself prayerfully in all sincerity and humility and allow Him to do so. Rejoice in the risen Christ; edifying others in the process! Love one another, even as Christ loves us!

Peace,

jo

Ohh I never thought i'd be accused of 'trolling the internet waiting to be neagtive about the LDS church. I apologize to you. I realize I have been crass and not very subtle in my posting. I sincerely apologize. I have never posted on any type of discussion board before this one. After thinking about it I see there are people on here who are very enthusiastic about their faith- love it in fact. Some would not want to live without it. This is a profound realization to me and I thank you for pointing out my negativity. In the future I will utlize this discussion board in the good spirited way it was intended. I will ask questions rather than make disparaging remarks.

My bad. I did actually read the Two Tree lecture. I admired the speakers enthusiasm and way she approached the subject and it was insightful. I had never really thought of Adam and Eve in that light.

I do call on the Holy Ghost and will do as you recommend... pray, meditate, ponder and allow him to guide me.

Christ does love all of us this is the one thing we can agree on. I'm grateful for it.

Peace and Joy to you.

[Maidservant]

There's no room for it with all the shame, guilt and fear themes in what is taught in church every Sunday.

Wo. Where are you AT when you hear this? If you are hearing this every Sunday at an LDS church, they need to talk to their stake president and get correlated on the actual contents of the lessons to be taught.

The focus on . . . .

"We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in his Son, Jesus Christ; and in the Holy Ghost."

"We believe that through the atonement of Christ all mankind may be saved by obedience to the ordinances of the gospel."

"We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are, first, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, repentence; third, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."

"We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things."

Etc. . . . see all 13 of the articles of faith.

The kinds of questions you are asking, we all have asked, and we have had our own journey and struggle with it, and each of us has come to a wide range of conclusions on the matter of gender and similar matters of the church and gospel, but thankfully we do have some direction in the gospel so we don't have to struggle without any revelation or any word of God.

Also you might enjoy reading all the Mormon mommy blogs out in the blogosphere to get a first hand glimpse of how Mormon women view themselves. There will be a wide spectrum out there on that, too, I'm sure.

[changed]

Women would hold the priesthood.

Men would not.

I have often contemplated what qualities would make for the best leaders - I think the best leaders are those who are intimately familiar with their followers... what would it take to become intimately familiar with your followers? ... there are fairy tales about royal children who dressed in rags to go out with the commoners for a day and returned home after various adventures wiser/better leaders...

[HeatherAnn]

Women would hold the priesthood.

Men would not.

This is how I've heard it went...

God said, "OK, we've got 2 jobs that need to be taken... The priesthood & motherhood."

In unison, men yelled, "We'll take the priesthood!"

Seriously, I think God is both male & female - it just makes sense - as above, so below.

A fireside speaker once told of middle eastern archeological art that portrayed a person on their journey after death to heaven.

First they came to a man on a throne, Heavenly Father. Then beyond that, they came to a woman on a throne, Heavenly Mother.

[changed]

the feminine aspect in the Abrahamic traditions has been veiled though - why is this? imo - just wild speculations of coarse - but like I said before, there is value in coming to an understanding of what a follower is... to really get the full experience of it all, and thus the intimate understanding of it all, would require that "sleeping beauty" has no idea what her birthright is, where she was born - just let her enjoy living in the woods for awhile with some nice old ladies for a bit

God said, "OK, we've got 2 jobs that need to be taken... The priesthood & motherhood."

In unison, men yelled, "We'll take the priesthood!"

and we yelled "We'll take motherhood!"

yes, different roles to fill... I think some see that as a cop-out avoidance answer - avoiding that men are the head of the household type of thing. as we are placed within the different roles, we come to a greater appreciation for all that those roles are, we find the beauty and honor in whatever role we come to find ourselves in... personally, as a female, I do not want to be the head of the house - I don't want to be the leader - I want to the heart, I want to be in the midst of it. I think that it is much better to be "with" others than "in front of" them... and hope that I never have to "wake up" up to inheriting any leadership roles...

[HeatherAnn]

the feminine aspect in the Abrahamic traditions has been veiled though - why is this? imo - just wild speculations of coarse - but like I said before, there is value in coming to an understanding of what a follower is... to really get the full experience of it all, and thus the intimate understanding of it all, would require that "sleeping beauty" has no idea what her birthright is, where she was born - just let her enjoy living in the woods for awhile with some nice old ladies for a bit

...and we yelled "We'll take motherhood!"

yes, different roles to fill... I think some see that as a cop-out avoidance answer - avoiding that men are the head of the household type of thing. as we are placed within the different roles, we come to a greater appreciation for all that those roles are, we find the beauty and honor in whatever role we come to find ourselves in... personally, as a female, I do not want to be the head of the house - I don't want to be the leader - I want to the heart, I want to be in the midst of it. I think that it is much better to be "with" others than "in front of" them... and hope that I never have to "wake up" up to inheriting any leadership roles...

Changed,

I agree! Of course, it bugs me when women or men think their gender is better than the other. Yet, I see that we each have different talents... like the scripture about how the body needs all parts.

That's funny about "sleeping beauty." I imagine that because society has been male-dominated, that is why God is mostly considered to be male. Yet, when children cry - who do they usually want first? Mommy!

Some say God is in the space within a vessel... "be still & know that I am God." Think of the powerful nurturing vessel of a mother's womb!

I love being a mom! It's by far, my most challenging job I've every had, but also the most rewarding!

[changed]

Changed,

I agree! Of course, it bugs me when women or men think their gender is better than the other. Yet, I see that we each have different talents... like the scripture about how the body needs all parts.

That's funny about "sleeping beauty." I imagine that because society has been male-dominated, that is why God is mostly considered to be male. Yet, when children cry - who do they usually want first? Mommy!

Some say God is in the space within a vessel... "be still & know that I am God." Think of the powerful nurturing vessel of a mother's womb!

I love being a mom! It's by far, my most challenging job I've every had, but also the most rewarding!

the greatest among you shall be your servant...

[Deborah]

I do not want to be the head of the house - I don't want to be the leader - I want to the heart, I want to be in the midst of it.

I've always been interested in politics but didn't want to be the politician; I wanted to be the speech writer who gives the politician the words to say. I think it's the same principle.

I unfortunately was forced to be the head of the house by circumstances. There is a reason for a father and mother. One person can't do it all, at least not very well.

[Deborah]

Ohh I never thought i'd be accused of 'trolling the internet waiting to be neagtive about the LDS church. I apologize to you. I realize I have been crass and not very subtle in my posting. I sincerely apologize.

This board welcomes those who are truly interested in discussions. I think sometimes we get defensive too soon. Welcome and I look forward to discussions with you.

[HeatherAnn]

I've always been interested in politics but didn't want to be the politician; I wanted to be the speech writer who gives the politician the words to say. I think it's the same principle.

I unfortunately was forced to be the head of the house by circumstances. There is a reason for a father and mother. One person can't do it all, at least not very well.

Deborah, bless your heart for doing your best as a single parent. I imagine you do much better than you think, but I know kids take a lot! I hope you get lots of love & support.

What you mentioned about being a politician speech writer, reminded me of a quote from the movie, "My big fat Greek Wedding" - where the mom says, "The man is the head, but the woman is the neck. And she can turn the head any way she wants. "

[Deborah]

I hope you get lots of love & support.

Thanks. I had lots of friends in the same boat (I lived in Calif and we had a wide range of LDS singles). We all survived. They are grown now and have kids of their own. I don't wish single parenthood on anyone.

[Jeff K.]

Being both a mother and a father to a household of kids should make you a shoe in for any political position.

[IloveaMormon]

Wo. Where are you AT when you hear this? If you are hearing this every Sunday at an LDS church, they need to talk to their stake president and get correlated on the actual contents of the lessons to be taught.

"We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in his Son, Jesus Christ; and in the Holy Ghost."

"We believe that through the atonement of Christ all mankind may be saved by obedience to the ordinances of the gospel."

"We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are, first, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, repentence; third, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."

"We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things."

Etc. . . . see all 13 of the articles of faith.

The kinds of questions you are asking, we all have asked, and we have had our own journey and struggle with it, and each of us has come to a wide range of conclusions on the matter of gender and similar matters of the church and gospel, but thankfully we do have some direction in the gospel so we don't have to struggle without any revelation or any word of God.

Also you might enjoy reading all the Mormon mommy blogs out in the blogosphere to get a first hand glimpse of how Mormon women view themselves. There will be a wide spectrum out there on that, too, I'm sure.

What is real cannot be threatened.

Nothing unreal exists.

Herein lies the peace of God.

I don't need to tell you how to view God. It's your story, your choice for your life- to struggle and suffer and try to prove yourself 'worthy' to be with Him again. I have come to see we are not separate at all. Climb your mountain. "Endure all things", and you surely shall because that is what you seek. Design your life and I'll do the same. I begin a new day in the sun, laughing, painting, touching the love of my life, going to the gym. It is not in my nature to argue, to sit at a computer and invest so much time and energy into something which has nothing to do with God or my relationship with Him.

[alter idem]

I think for anyone who believes in the Bible, there is no question that God is NOT a woman. Since LDS are a religion which believes in the divinity of the Bible, we fall in that category.

However, our understanding of eternal families, temple marriage, etc. tells us that we have a mother in heaven as well.

So, LDS doctrine is that we have a Father in Heaven and he has a wife; our Mother in Heaven.