Can LDS Apologists Be Kind?

[LifeOnaPlate]

I do enjoy David's perspective on things, though don't always agree with him. But it's interesting to discuss and he makes me think about things. But I enjoy Will's perspective as well and probably agree more with him. I just wish we could all discuss these things without becoming offensive. Sometimes it must seem to the mods like being referee on the playground.

Cool, but I've never seen David imply that he was watching anyone or that there was some secret surveillance group that would impede Will's professional aspirations Panopticon-style.

[mercyngrace]

This^^^^

There's a consistent lack of self-discipline and commitment to civility.

Now, now, don't be a board nanny.

[bookofmormontruth]

Depends on whether you consider Will S. to be an apologist.

Really don't know what qualifies a person to be an apologist. Is there a list or something?

The comments I have seen him make - one had to be the "top post" I have seen here in my short stint. It was about general conference and was very inspiring for implementing it in my own future family - yet people mocked it and brought up a baseless accusation. To me that shows the true colors of individuals. If "they" had an issue with him for whatever reason - was it truly necessary to mock a sincere post?

If he said that about Emma Smith, I will admit that is disappointing and I wouldn't consider doing the same, but my loyalties are with the defenders of the Lord's Church no matter how flawed their defense is. It says more of a person trying desperately to find fault in someone's beliefs or mocking our past and current leaders who we love and honor.

[mfbukowski]

Bull

You, sir are the absolute expert on this! My sincere commendation !

[mfbukowski]

You will be missed.

Big time

[ttribe]

Now, now, don't be a board nanny.

Yeah...not the first time I've heard that one.

[bookofmormontruth]

I reported it a second ago. Here's the veiled threat from Will in a now-closed thread. He worded it carefully so as to be able to deny intending what he clearly intended David to understand.

http://www.mormondia...__p__1208997036

Creepy and somewhat ludicrous.

lol where is the "threat". Sorry I mean "veiled threat".

[David Bokovoy]

First, this paints an invalid and inaccurate picture of critic versus apologist, which frankly, in my view, doesn't represent reality and is a less preferable framing of the circumstances. Second, I've been personally attacked by people I've been "nicey-nice" with, so the statement doesn't hold water anyway.

From my view (not that anyone has to give a damn) all of this is an unfortunate public airing of dirty laundry. Frankly Will's a bully who made a creepy threat to DB and then tried to pretend he didn't. Will's a creepy guy online. I met him only once in person and he seemed cordial. Online we've had many disagreements, tone in apologetics being chiefest.

I used to be a mod here so I can appreciate some of the difficulties associated with their tasks. Often we responded to the things that people reported, so if Will's weird threat wasn't reported it isn't a huge surprise that it was overlooked. However, I think the ball was dropped on this matter. I was glad to see DB clarify the difference between Will and FAIR, as Will noted, he's not really affiliated.

Unfortunately, these were not simply veiled threats. Suffice it to say that he has sent various email accusations against me to BYU and Maxwell Institute scholars. I refuse to air this dirty laundry in public, but it is dirty and provides important context to his post.

[mercyngrace]

Yeah...not the first time I've heard that one.

You and me both, ttribe.

[bookofmormontruth]

Unfortunately, these were not simply veiled threats. Suffice it to say that he has sent various email accusations against me to BYU and Maxwell Institute scholars. I refuse to air this dirty laundry in public, but it is dirty and provides important context to his post.

Yet, you just aired it in public and said you were leaving 15 posts ago? I am confused.

Have you reported these "threats" to proper authorities? aka the Police?

[Nemesis]

Unfortunately, these were not simply veiled threats. Suffice it to say that he has sent various email accusations against me to BYU and Maxwell Institute scholars. I refuse to air this dirty laundry in public, but it is dirty and provides important context to his post.

Wow and you couldn't let those that needed to know in on what was going on?

Nemesis

[LifeOnaPlate]

lol where is the "threat". Sorry I mean "veiled threat".

I don't know you, so...

But just to be safe, I'll add that Will's comment was obviously, on its face, an insinuation that DB is compromising future career opportunities based on things he is posting on internet forums because he is being watched.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Wow and you couldn't let those that needed to know in on what was going on?

Nemesis

Do you realize how silly that looks? In a face to face conversation with professionals? "Yeah, there's this weird guy following me around on the Internet, you probably need to just ignore him when he emails you." It's enough to make some people look at a message board like this and say "to hell with it" because it isn't worth the extra grief.

[Nemesis]

Do you realize how silly that looks? In a face to face conversation with professionals? "Yeah, there's this weird guy following me around on the Internet, you probably need to just ignore him when he emails you." It's enough to make some people look at a message board like this and say "to hell with it" because it isn't worth the extra grief.

I was thinking more in lines with me. Since the veiled threat looks fine but in context it changes all together. Context is key people.

Nemesis

[David Bokovoy]

Wow and you couldn't let those that needed to know in on what was going on?

Nemesis

I apologize and sincerely wish that I would have simply contacted you instead of responding to the issue in public. It is a serious offense that has bothered me for a couple of weeks now, to the point that when the threat was made, I responded more emotionally than logically. It's also, however, difficult to know who to contact when much of the board, including the moderation exists in anonymity. This posting sytle is wise and I should have done this myself years ago in order for protection.

People who like myself have chosen to post under our real names have done so in order to allow our background to be useful to those who seek answers and in order to allow others to seek us out personally for exchanges, but doing so opens us up to these sorts of events.

[bookofmormontruth]

I don't know you, so...

But just to be safe, I'll add that Will's comment was obviously, on its face, an insinuation that DB is compromising future career opportunities based on things he is posting on internet forums because he is being watched.

No, I am just new here and I am rarely serious.

DB is a LDS "scholar" somewhere? Is that the "threat"? Why would Will be concerned about what he posts? And why would DB bow out all of a sudden if his posts are consistent with Church teachings and don't give ammunition to oppostates and anti-Mormons? Just curious.

[LifeOnaPlate]

No, I am just new here and I am rarely serious.

DB is a LDS "scholar" somewhere? Is that the "threat"? Why would Will be concerned about what he posts? And why would DB bow out all of a sudden if his posts are consistent with Church teachings and don't give ammunition to oppostates and anti-Mormons? Just curious.

Sounds like you lack the necessary background, which makes me wonder why you're flying to the defense in a situation you don't understand.

[Nemesis]

I apologize and sincerely wish that I would have simply contacted you instead of responding to the issue in public. It is a serious offense that has bothered me for a couple of weeks now, to the point that when the threat was made, I responded more emotionally than logically. It's also, however, difficult to know who to contact when much of the board, including the moderation exists in anonymity. This posting sytle is wise and I should have done this myself years ago in order for protection.

People who like myself have chosen to post under our real names have done so in order to allow our background to be useful to those who seek answers and in order to allow others to seek us out personally for exchanges, but doing so opens us up to these sorts of events.

Its weds so I will contact you later.

Nemesis

[bookofmormontruth]

Sounds like you lack the necessary background, which makes me wonder why you're flying to the defense in a situation you don't understand.

What kind of background do I need btw?

I really don't see the "threat". On the opposite end - I saw Will's inspiring post on general conference turn into a vile and false accusation. Yet, there was deafening silence.

[LifeOnaPlate]

What kind of background do I need btw?

I really don't see the "threat". On the opposite end - I saw Will's post on general conference turn into a vile and false accusation. Yet, there was deafening silence.

Didn't see it, sorry. I don't come 'round too often lately. You're currently observing one of the chief reasons.

[mercyngrace]

Didn't see it, sorry. I don't come 'round too often lately. You're currently observing one of the chief reasons.

This post makes it sound like BOMT is here more often than it might appear:

No, "low class" is making a pathetic accusation against Will S. which you are conveniently silent about. Why is that? We know why.

A fellow member is not the same as a pseudo-member, nice try.

He seems to know Krose well. Maybe he's been around much longer than his post count indicates...?

[mfbukowski]

First, this paints an invalid and inaccurate picture of critic versus apologist, which frankly, in my view, doesn't represent reality and is a less preferable framing of the circumstances. Second, I've been personally attacked by people I've been "nicey-nice" with, so the statement doesn't hold water anyway.

In my experience, "nicey-nice" is often viewed as a sign of weakness, at least it is on the other board.

[Pahoran]

This post makes it sound like BOMT is here more often than it might appear:

He seems to know Krose well. Maybe he's been around much longer than his post count indicates...?

If an LDS apologist -- Will, for example -- had made such an observation, and drawn such a conclusion, about one of the critics here, would there be people denouncing him for being "creepy?"

Yes, I think there might be.

I guess LDS posters only have to be held to higher standards as long as they're posting in defense of the Church.

I'm glad we cleared that up.

Regards,

Pahoran

[bookofmormontruth]

This post makes it sound like BOMT is here more often than it might appear:

He seems to know Krose well. Maybe he's been around much longer than his post count indicates...?

No, I don't know Krose at all.

I just know of his kind. For a couple of years, I commented on LDS videos on youtube that are inundated with filth about the Lord's Church. I saw how anti-Mormons would pretend to be members and etc... I know their tactics and how they operate together. Same tactics are used here, nothing new and it is easy to see through as the true colors of individuals are revealed.

You are still a great example to all of us, but don't be deceived for there are wolves among the flock.

[mercyngrace]

If an LDS apologist -- Will, for example -- had made such an observation, and drawn such a conclusion, about one of the critics here, would there be people denouncing him for being "creepy?"

Yes, I think there might be.

I guess LDS posters only have to be held to higher standards as long as they're posting in defense of the Church.

I'm glad we cleared that up.

Regards,

Pahoran

You seem to have drawn a faulty conclusion.

BOMT referred to Will's GC post and I went back to the thread to remind myself of what happened there.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I lurked here for quite a while before I began posting. Is it wrong to presume that others lurk before joining in the conversation?

edit: From post #59 (iirc) - here is how I described my entrance to the board:

Although I am a lifelong member of the church, I had no idea LDS were gathering online until a few years ago. I started lurking here after I bumped into the place researching background information for my gospel doctrine class. It was pure happenstance.