God Will Not Give Us More Than We Can Bear

[consiglieri]

I often hear in church the platitude, "God doesn't give us more than we can bear."

Do you believe this is true?

I tend to think it is not, but am interested in hearing the opinions of others.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I often hear in church the platitude, "God doesn't give us more than we can bear."

Do you believe this is true?

I tend to think it is not, but am interested in hearing the opinions of others.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I don't think so, I mean 3 hours of church is more than man can bear, right?

[Kevin Christensen]

I often hear in church the platitude, "God doesn't give us more than we can bear."

Do you believe this is true?

I tend to think it is not, but am interested in hearing the opinions of others.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

In one of Nibley's later talks, he commented that in a proving ground, the only meaningful and valuable test is a test to destruction, a test that actually detects and demonstrates the breaking point.

Fortunately, the plan is also about healing.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[consiglieri]

In one of Nibley's later talks, he commented that in a proving ground, the only meaningful and valuable test is a test to destruction, a test that actually detects and demonstrates the breaking point.

I think that is interesting, Kevin. Thanks for sharing. I would be interested in reading that talk some time.

One of the reasons I have a problem with the idea of God not testing us beyond our abilities to bear is when we run into people who take the ultimate way out by committing suicide.

Obviously these people were given more than they could bear.

If, on the other hand, we say that they were not given more than they could bear, it seems to cast a stigma on those who commit suicide, and often leaves their surviving family with more stuff to deal with than they already have.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[TAO]

100% perfectly true

[blueadept]

My favorite Mother Teresa saying "I know God wouldn't give me more than I can handle...I just wish He wouldn't trust me so much"

So when I reflect upon her life and others whom I have total respect of their spiritual journeys through suffering, I do believe it's true.

Is it really the virtue of faith that we claim to have if it isn't tested at times? I love my Mother Teresa t-shirt with this saying..

[CV75]

I often hear in church the platitude, "God doesn't give us more than we can bear."

Do you believe this is true?

I tend to think it is not, but am interested in hearing the opinions of others.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I’ve heard this said in reference to various applications (temptations, tests and trials, blessings, callings and responsibilities, etc.).

I think it is true as long as:

1) We are talking primarily about ourselves;

2) The "We" in the phrase means Christ is with us and we recognize and act according to His will;

3) Christ has already borne our infirmities and victories;

4) We keep an eternal perspective on our expectations;

5) We accept that God is the only one to exercise righteous judgment;

I think if one leaves God out of the equation he can easily take and take on more than he can bear.

[CV75]

In one of Nibley's later talks, he commented that in a proving ground, the only meaningful and valuable test is a test to destruction, a test that actually detects and demonstrates the breaking point.

Fortunately, the plan is also about healing.

Yes, the "breaking point" being the point where we, realizing we are nothing without God, either a) unhesitatingly submit ourselves to God and step into the break that turns out to be the healing; or b) get broke.

[CV75]

Obviously these people were given more than they could bear.

I'm not so sure. Christ has born their infirmities and will yet heal them in the resurrection, and God will judge them properly, whereas we don't know all the details of their suicide that would absolve them of guilt. We can all bear the Atonement and a righteous Judgment, as both work in our favor.

[William Schryver]

In one of Nibley's later talks, he commented that in a proving ground, the only meaningful and valuable test is a test to destruction, a test that actually detects and demonstrates the breaking point.

Fortunately, the plan is also about healing.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

I've always believed that, with every test, there is also present a means by which one can "reprogram the simulation."

You see, despite experience and observation to the contrary, I continue to reject belief in the no-win scenario. I suppose I'm just blindly stubborn in that respect.

In the immortal words of Hub McCann:

Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things that a man needs to believe in the most: that people are basically good; that honor, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; that love, true love, never dies... no matter if they're true or not, a man should believe in those things--because those are the things worth believing in.

[zerinus]

I often hear in church the platitude, "God doesn't give us more than we can bear."

Do you believe this is true?

I tend to think it is not, but am interested in hearing the opinions of others.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I don’t recall having heard that very often in the Church.

One of the reasons I have a problem with the idea of God not testing us beyond our abilities to bear is when we run into people who take the ultimate way out by committing suicide.

Obviously these people were given more than they could bear.

Now you are talking about something different. The idea that God will not “tempt” or test us more than we can bear is scriptural:

1 Corinthians 10

:

13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it is when we run into people who take the ultimate way out by committing suicide.

And it is addressed to Church members. It doesn’t mean that nobody will ever commit suicide; nor does it mean that nobody (including Church members) will ever sin. What it does imply is that nobody has any excuse for their sins. If somebody sins, they can’t blame it on God or on the devil. They had the power to resist if they had wanted to.

If, on the other hand, we say that they were not given more than they could bear, it seems to cast a stigma on those who commit suicide, and often leaves their surviving family with more stuff to deal with than they already have.

Suicide certainly is a sin, for which men will be held accountable before the Lord someday—who will deal mercifully with them. God will judge them mercifully, and take into account the factors that led them to that act.

[Duncan]

I don’t recall having heard that very often in the Church.

Now you are talking about something different. The idea that God will not “tempt” or test us more than we can bear is scriptural:

1 Corinthians 10

:

13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it is when we run into people who take the ultimate way out by committing suicide.

And it is addressed to Church members. It doesn’t mean that nobody will ever commit suicide; nor does it mean that nobody (including Church members) will ever sin. What it does imply is that nobody has any excuse for their sins. If somebody sins, they can’t blame it on God or on the devil. They had the power to resist if they had wanted to.

Suicide certainly is a sin, for which men will be held accountable before the Lord someday—who will deal mercifully with them. God will judge them mercifully, and take into account the factors that led them to that act.

Those are my thoughts as well. I think that temptation to committ sin and the vicissitudes of life are different, life can be so overwhelming that you do break and some people never recover or commit suicide or whatever. I am thining of the men I worked with in a VA hospital on my mission, physically fine but had mentally snapped, one was a former combat doctor who used to write prescriptions for imaginary people, just so sad really. This man had a Medical degree and the whole thing but the Vietnam War was too overwhelming.

[Glenn101]

I don’t recall having heard that very often in the Church.

Now you are talking about something different. The idea that God will not “tempt” or test us more than we can bear is scriptural:

1 Corinthians 10

:

13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it is when we run into people who take the ultimate way out by committing suicide.

And it is addressed to Church members. It doesn’t mean that nobody will ever commit suicide; nor does it mean that nobody (including Church members) will ever sin. What it does imply is that nobody has any excuse for their sins. If somebody sins, they can’t blame it on God or on the devil. They had the power to resist if they had wanted to.

Suicide certainly is a sin, for which men will be held accountable before the Lord someday—who will deal mercifully with them. God will judge them mercifully, and take into account the factors that led them to that act.

I agree on the point that God will not tempt us beyond that which we can bear. That point is almost irrefutable. The scripture reference is quite clear. I agree that suicide is a sin when the person so doing is in control of their actions. And I agree that God will deal mercifully with them. And fortunately, it is God that will be judging all of this.

Most of the problems we face in this life are not of the Lord's instigation. Many are due to our own bad choices, and others are heaped upon us by circumstance, while others are from other mortals who may or may not do so designedly. And some of those problems just may be more than a person can bear.

Glenn

As

[WalkerW]

God had provided an escape for or limit to (ekbasis can mean either) the testing they needed to endure (10:13), so they must flee idolatry (10:14). Some Stoics claimed that nature equipped people to bear nature's vissitudes (Marcus Aurelius 5:18), and the opinion that suffering was the lot of humanity was a frequently offered encouragement in antiquity. Philosophers warned people to expect suffering. (Craig S. Keener, 1-2 Corinthians, Cambridge University Press, 2005: 87)

I think the problem is that we start trying to define what temptation is beyond our endurance. The promise is that God provides an escape, which we also end up trying to define.

[consiglieri]

Suicide certainly is a sin,

Call for scriptural references on the idea that suicide is a sin, Zerinus.

[Jeff K.]

When one considers the issue of God giving us more than we can bear, we have to ask what it includes.

For instance does it include the repentance process, which itself would mean that we can be tempted more than we can bear, but still repent of our failure? Is repentance part of the process to be considered or is it a remedy to our failure to respond correctly?

[Jeff K.]

Call for scriptural references on the idea that suicide is a sin, Zerinus.

Is the murder of one's self still murder?

[consiglieri]

Is the murder of one's self still murder?

Self-slaughter? Yes.

Self-murder? Doubtful.

[WalkerW]

Is the murder of one's self still murder?

This depends on whether or not suicide can be defined as "murder of one's self." You've already defined it as such. A better question would be, "Is suicide (i.e. the ending of one's own life) considered murder?"

[Jeff K.]

The planned death of a life is murder. And the distinction between slaughter and murder is not made in the commandments. Otherwise the murder of another individual would also be "slaughter".

[frankenstein]

I think that is interesting, Kevin. Thanks for sharing. I would be interested in reading that talk some time.

One of the reasons I have a problem with the idea of God not testing us beyond our abilities to bear is when we run into people who take the ultimate way out by committing suicide.

Obviously these people were given more than they could bear.

If, on the other hand, we say that they were not given more than they could bear, it seems to cast a stigma on those who commit suicide, and often leaves their surviving family with more stuff to deal with than they already have.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Doesn't the CHI address suicide and that people who do such can still be buried in Temple clothes, IIRC the CHI also suggests that we do not know what was going on in the person mind; I read that as indication some acts could be beyond the control of our spirit.

As for the verse and principle in question isn't there more to it? The way it is presented here it is like the story about the person who kept saying "God will save me" but eventually died.

[WalkerW]

The planned death of a life is murder.

Not in all cases. Plenty of GAs have noted the killing that takes place, say, in a war zone is not to be considered murder. Killing certainly comes up in military plans.

[consiglieri]

The planned death of a life is murder. And the distinction between slaughter and murder is not made in the commandments. Otherwise the murder of another individual would also be "slaughter".

I'm thinking the Hamlet reference may have been a bit too obscure . . .

[frankenstein]

The planned death of a life is murder. And the distinction between slaughter and murder is not made in the commandments. Otherwise the murder of another individual would also be "slaughter".

21.4.14

Suicide

It is wrong to take a life, including one’s own. However, a person who commits suicide may not be responsible for his or her acts. Only God can judge such a matter.

The family, in consultation with the bishop, determines the place and nature of a funeral service for a person who has died under such circumstances. Church facilities may be used. If the person was endowed, he or she may be buried in temple clothing.

[consiglieri]

21.4.14

Suicide

It is wrong to take a life, including one’s own. However, a person who commits suicide may not be responsible for his or her acts. Only God can judge such a matter.

The family, in consultation with the bishop, determines the place and nature of a funeral service for a person who has died under such circumstances. Church facilities may be used. If the person was endowed, he or she may be buried in temple clothing.

Thanks for pointing this out, Frankie.

I find this heartening.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri