Messiah Ben Joseph?

[USU78]

Let me guess. You are either that prophet or else his Elijah.

brightpath claims to have the insight poop on the identity of the "One Mighty and Strong."

And it ain't Partridge.

[Helorum]

"This parallel is actually pretty weak "

According to you, anyway. But not everyone agrees with your point of view.

Brown said: "The Messiah Ben Joseph is to be a warrior . . . . Joseph Smith [was commissioned] to the rank of Lieutenant General over the Nauvoo legion" [no statement made about JS or MbJ 'fighting a war' or leading anyone 'into battle']

John Tvedtnes said: MbJ "is destined to be a military leader who dies in combat . . . . Joseph Smith seems to fit this description . . . . A lieutenant-general and commander of the Nauvoo Legion, he was slain by a mob comprising mostly Illinois and Missouri militiamen."

[volgadon]

According to you, anyway. But not everyone agrees with your point of view.

Funny, the same thing could be said about your article.

Brown [Helorum] said: "The Messiah Ben Joseph is to be a warrior . . . . Joseph Smith [was commissioned] to the rank of Lieutenant General over the Nauvoo legion" [no statement made about JS or MbJ 'fighting a war' or leading anyone 'into battle']

John Tvedtnes said: MbJ "is destined to be a military leader who dies in combat . . . . Joseph Smith seems to fit this description . . . . A lieutenant-general and commander of the Nauvoo Legion, he was slain by a mob comprising mostly Illinois and Missouri militiamen."

I decided to reread the Sefer Zerubabel, which is the text that you and Tvedtnes are mainly following. The MbJ does not act as a warrior until after he is resurrected. In the midrash Lekah Tob (as well as a piyyut from the Cairo Genizah) the MbJ fights wars before his death. I mean fights wars and leads into battle. He doesn't parade troops. As I mentioned earlier, Zion's Camp is an apter parallel, but still a weak one.

[inquiringmind]

Is anyone aware of this teaching?

Revelation Received August 2, 1989, Provo, Utah, Concerning Joseph the Seer in the Flesh, was none other than the Testator, the Third Member of the Godhead, Saith the Lord, and This From Before the Foundation of the World.

1 Thus saith the Lord, it was that Joseph, our beloved Joseph was the Testator born in the flesh, that he might also fulfill the measure of the sons of God, that he might fulfill the measure of his creation, because it is that spirit united with flesh and bones bringeth a fullness of joy.

2 And thus it was necessary that he whose splendor, radiance and intelligence was greater or equal to the other of our Father’s sons, even the Christ, with whom he is One forever and ever, saith the Father, yea, it was necessary that he be obedient unto the law and descend below all things, that he too might be in all things and through all things the light of truth, with the Father and His Christ, being clothed with flesh and blood, he did verily complete his mission.

http://www.artbulla....ion/joseph.html

Is it doctrine, speculation, or heresy?

(And does anyone know who received this revelation, or where the quote comes from?)

[LeSellers]

Is anyone aware of this teaching?

Is it doctrine, speculation, or heresy?

(And does anyone know who received this revelation, or where the quote comes from?)

I can't help too much with the source, Art Bulla, except to say he's not LDS. At best, he's a heretic as far as we're concerned, he may be a "fundamentalist", or, from what I only vaguely recall, he has no connection with the Saints except that he accepts, in a non-binding way, our theology as "true in its own way".

Lehi

[Avatar4321]

Is anyone aware of this teaching?

http://www.artbulla....ion/joseph.html

Is it doctrine, speculation, or heresy?

(And does anyone know who received this revelation, or where the quote comes from?)

Read Section 130 and I think the answer will be pretty obvious.

[USU78]

I can't help too much with the source, Art Bulla, except to say he's not LDS. At best, he's a heretic as far as we're concerned, he may be a "fundamentalist", or, from what I only vaguely recall, he has no connection with the Saints except that he accepts, in a non-binding way, our theology as "true in its own way".

Quite true. I would only add that this particular teaching is one that is quite common amongst the polygynist splinter-groups. JSJr himself never made such a claim about his pre-earth history. It is, moreover, highly problematic: do we really believe that the personage of Spirit Who enlightens minds and inspires hearts was out of commission for just short of 40 years while He, as a human, translated plates and whatnot? This assumes no inspiration anywhere on earth for that period of time, other than amongst such as came within JSJr's sphere of influence.

Now, how's that again?

[inquiringmind]

Quite true. I would only add that this particular teaching is one that is quite common amongst the polygynist splinter-groups. JSJr himself never made such a claim about his pre-earth history. It is, moreover, highly problematic: do we really believe that the personage of Spirit Who enlightens minds and inspires hearts was out of commission for just short of 40 years while He, as a human, translated plates and whatnot? This assumes no inspiration anywhere on earth for that period of time, other than amongst such as came within JSJr's sphere of influence.

Now, how's that again?

Thank you USU78

[Calm]

Quite true. I would only add that this particular teaching is one that is quite common amongst the polygynist splinter-groups. JSJr himself never made such a claim about his pre-earth history. It is, moreover, highly problematic: do we really believe that the personage of Spirit Who enlightens minds and inspires hearts was out of commission for just short of 40 years while He, as a human, translated plates and whatnot? This assumes no inspiration anywhere on earth for that period of time, other than amongst such as came within JSJr's sphere of influence.

Now, how's that again?

There is also the problem that Joseph Smith himself claimed to have felt the influence of the Spirit.

[brightpath]

brightpath claims to have the insight poop on the identity of the "One Mighty and Strong."

And it ain't Partridge.

Read those scriptures and you will see it isn't JS. It really isn't inside knowledge if you do a little digging into church history.

[Stargazer]

Quite true. I would only add that this particular teaching is one that is quite common amongst the polygynist splinter-groups. JSJr himself never made such a claim about his pre-earth history. It is, moreover, highly problematic: do we really believe that the personage of Spirit Who enlightens minds and inspires hearts was out of commission for just short of 40 years while He, as a human, translated plates and whatnot? This assumes no inspiration anywhere on earth for that period of time, other than amongst such as came within JSJr's sphere of influence.

Now, how's that again?

Although I would reject this revelation (from Art Bulla?) as heresy (indeed, it places Joseph above Jesus, which is enough said), I do recall from what is recorded about the King Follett Sermon that Joseph said of himself that the Saints would rise up and kill him if he told them who he really was (paraphrasing). If this were the case, then he must have been quite special it seems, more so than the common garden variety Prophet, Seer and Revelator. But that much is clear from the evidence of what we already know.

[Robert F. Smith]

Is anyone aware of this teaching?

http://www.artbulla....ion/joseph.html

Is it doctrine, speculation, or heresy?

(And does anyone know who received this revelation, or where the quote comes from?)

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Bulla

Maybe he thought he could take up where Ervil LeBaron left off.