Doctor Steuss Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 What say you?I say that given this (and my [often flawed] understand of scripture, with a light smattering of Mormon interpretation): #3 will inherit nougat, #2 will inherit cookie wafer, and #1 will taste the bitter gall of walnuts for a season. None shall inherit the kingdom of peanut butter save they enter through its narrow chocolaty gate.Be back in a while
consiglieri Posted March 16, 2011 Author Posted March 16, 2011 I say that given this (and my [often flawed] understand of scripture, with a light smattering of Mormon interpretation): #3 will inherit nougat, #2 will inherit cookie wafer, and #1 will taste the bitter gall of walnuts for a season. None shall inherit the kingdom of peanut butter save they enter through its narrow chocolaty gate.Be back in a while
krose Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 I didn't know how much I missed you until you came back.Aye, it's been too long. Nobody does it better. Makes me feel sad for the rest of us.
LDSToronto Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 And modern revelation becomes modern SCRIPTURE!!!!!Way to take Elder Holland out of context!Yes, well...ah, never mind.H.
Jeff K. Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 The purpose of this thread is to rank the following three hypothetical individuals appearing before the judgment seat of God:1. The man who is an active, tithe-paying, temple-attending, calling-accepting Latter-day Saint who verbally abuses his wife, berates his children, and is dishonest in his business practices.2. The man who is not a member of the LDS Church, but who is honest and upstanding in his dealings with his fellow men, and who is charitable, kind and forgiving.3. The man who is not a member of the LDS Church, whose life is riddled with sin, but who is sorrowful and contrite over the sins he commits, and pleads for forgiveness.This is the way they appear before the judgment seat. There has been no intervening activity in the spirit world; no temple ordinances accepted by the non-LDS people.How do these three people rank in God's eyes, and what scriptures would you use to support your position?All the Best!--ConsiglieriP.S. You are God, so the scripture about not judging others does not apply to you.God will allow them to judge themselves. As such its not my concern.Consider for example that number 1 may be struggling to overcome something that is killing him inside. Number 2 seems fine, but the descriptions don't show the entire life of the individual and what brought him to that part. The last one could just as easily be the first one.In a court of law all three will be dealt with according to the laws of man. I would not want to judge any of them since they all shall choose for themselves where they fit best in God's many kingdoms.
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 In a court of law all three will be dealt with according to the laws of man. I would not want to judge any of them since they all shall choose for themselves where they fit best in God's many kingdoms.CFR, that we are our judges and not Christ and the Apostles?I know that we will stand witness against ourselves, and will reveal all of the sins we tried to hide from the world, but Christ and his Apostles are the judges not us.
Loran Howard Blood Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 The purpose of this thread is to rank the following three hypothetical individuals appearing before the judgment seat of God:1. The man who is an active, tithe-paying, temple-attending, calling-accepting Latter-day Saint who verbally abuses his wife, berates his children, and is dishonest in his business practices.2. The man who is not a member of the LDS Church, but who is honest and upstanding in his dealings with his fellow men, and who is charitable, kind and forgiving.3. The man who is not a member of the LDS Church, whose life is riddled with sin, but who is sorrowful and contrite over the sins he commits, and pleads for forgiveness.There's an old Hong Kong martial arts movie I really like called House of Traps, which succinctly clarifies the purpose of this thread.
Jeff K. Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 CFR, that we are our judges and not Christ and the Apostles?I know that we will stand witness against ourselves, and will reveal all of the sins we tried to hide from the world, but Christ and his Apostles are the judges not us.God is the ultimate judge who knows us better than we know ourselves, but we will witness both for and against ourselves, I think God will be the presiding priesthood as we make the decision since we are making the decision everyday. We presume not going to the Celestial Kingdom is our punishment, but in fact I believe it will be our choice since we could not bear to live there if we are not worthy. We will be most comfortable in the kingdom that awaits us.
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 We presume not going to the Celestial Kingdom is our punishment, but in fact I believe it will be our choice since we could not bear to live there if we are not worthy. We will be most comfortable in the kingdom that awaits us.I agree that not achieving Celestial Kingdom isn't a punishment, only Outer Darkness is a punishment since those who are judged to that place suffer spiritual death forever, but this idea that we choose what kingdom we go to doesn't float well with me. We are the witness, not the judge, Christ chooses for us because he knows us better than we even know ourselves, by instinct we are wired to want to return to our Heavenly Father. So if we choose, I believe a lot of people who choose to enter into the presence of God unworthily and we destroy IMO. That is why we need a judge to determine what glory we are worthy of, because if the choice was left to us I think many would make improper choices. Now as far as I understand the scriptures, they all say we are to be judged by Christ and the apostles, if you have any scriptures that add to that I will be more than willing to consider there merit.
rpn Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 You've left out the one element that God would require to make those judgments. He know both their heart and their capability. The First is in the most danger of condemnation, of course because of the nature of the sin he is committing and his knowledge that they are sin. But we don't know the whole story. The atonement covers all sins that are repented of, if the person is doing their personal best, no matter how close or far away from objective perfection that is.
sunstoned Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 1 Goes to outer darkness, he broke his covenants and repeatedly lied to Church (without remorse) after accepting the Covenants of the Priesthood in the Temple, according to the scriptures as I understand them, he has sinned against the Holy Ghost (as defined in D&C 84:41) and is a Son of Perdition. Do you really believe this? How long have you been a member?
TAO Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 LDSMan, 1 isn't knowledgeable enough as far as I know to go to OD. He is going to feel torment of soul in spirit prison though, I think.
frankenstein Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 1. The man who is an active, tithe-paying, temple-attending, calling-accepting Latter-day Saint who verbally abuses his wife, berates his children, and is dishonest in his business practices.2. The man who is not a member of the LDS Church, but who is honest and upstanding in his dealings with his fellow men, and who is charitable, kind and forgiving.3. The man who is not a member of the LDS Church, whose life is riddled with sin, but who is sorrowful and contrite over the sins he commits, and pleads for forgiveness.All the Best!--Consiglieri"By their fruits ye shall know them". The 1st, having lied in business, and most likely lied to get a Temple recommend, I would say is in the worst spot.The 2nd, person, would fall under the protection of Matthew 25 or Mosiah "least of these, ye have done it unto me"The 3rd, can't say, when does this person plead for forgiveness?
zerinus Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 I agree that not achieving Celestial Kingdom isn't a punishment, only Outer Darkness is a punishment since those who are judged to that place suffer spiritual death forever, but this idea that we choose what kingdom we go to doesn't float well with me.Except that the "outer darkness" of the Book of Mormon is different!Alma 40:11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection
Paddy Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 1. Telestial2. Terrestrial3. CelestialBecause I am playing god I don't have to tell you why...!Paddy
consiglieri Posted March 17, 2011 Author Posted March 17, 2011 God will allow them to judge themselves. Then I guess I am a shoo-in for the celestial kingdom.Cool!
consiglieri Posted March 17, 2011 Author Posted March 17, 2011 There's an old Hong Kong martial arts movie I really like called House of Traps, which succinctly clarifies the purpose of this thread.See?You're not so bad at judging after all, Loran.Of course, there is always the peril of "unrighteous judgment," but don't let that stop you.
consiglieri Posted March 17, 2011 Author Posted March 17, 2011 1. Telestial2. Terrestrial3. CelestialBecause I am playing god I don't have to tell you why...!PaddyHah!Well, as inasmuch as you agree with my rankings, you are more than welcome to a spot with me in the celestial kingdom, Paddy.All the Best!--Consiglieri
Doctor Steuss Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 [...]The 3rd, can't say, when does this person plead for forgiveness?Hi Frankenstein,As far as scripture is concerned, I'm not sure that timing matters (at least from my understanding of the three parables Christ gives after the Pharisees comment about Christ welcoming and eating with sinners). It seems that sincerity and a real change of heart are the determining factor.Of course, this leaves the often uncomfortable notion that some
consiglieri Posted March 17, 2011 Author Posted March 17, 2011 Of course, this leaves the often uncomfortable notion that some
mercyngrace Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Alright. After thinking on this for a day, I'm right back where I originally started. So here's my attempt at playing God:I do not rank them.I frankly forgive them all the minute they ask for mercy. (Luke 7:42)Then I send them to seek forgiveness of those they've offended. (Luke 16:19-31)For some that will be easier than for others.And finally I watch and wait until they are willing to receive my love and mercy at which point I fall upon their necks, clothe them and put rings on them (Luke 15) and welcome them all into my kingdom, spotless. (D&C 76:107)
consiglieri Posted March 17, 2011 Author Posted March 17, 2011 I frankly forgive them all the minute they ask for mercy. (Luke 7:42)You're my kind of God!
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 One of my favorite parables.And likely the one least heard in the LDS Church.All the Best!--ConsiglieriThe parable is about those who WORK in the vineyard, not those who call on the masters name. This is about how the works of all who labor in the vineyard whether, it be Adam the first laborer or us the last workers called to work in the vineyard we all receive the same reward, eternal life. Now I don't feel that deathbed confessions are done in a humble and contrite heart in most cases, but out of fear of the afterlife now that death is knocking on the door. Repenting can only occur with a humble heart and a contrite spirit, as the scriptures say, and it is up to the Lord to determine that, I always am one to say repent now cause delaying your day of repentance has eternal consequences.
The Nehor Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Now I don't feel that deathbed confessions are done in a humble and contrite heart in most cases, but out of fear of the afterlife now that death is knocking on the door. Repenting can only occur with a humble heart and a contrite spirit, as the scriptures say, and it is up to the Lord to determine that, I always am one to say repent now cause delaying your day of repentance has eternal consequences.The thing is we'll find out real quick in the afterlife whether it was an honest confession when in the afterlife he is handed a Home Teaching list, a service project assignment, and sent to work.
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