Today is Judgment Day!

[The Nehor]

One of my favorite parables.

And likely the one least heard in the LDS Church.

Really? It's always been one of my favorites.

The reward for working in the vineyard for the whole day is getting to work in the vineyard all day. That should be reward enough or you are doing it wrong.

[frankenstein]

1 Goes to outer darkness, he broke his covenants and repeatedly lied to Church (without remorse) after accepting the Covenants of the Priesthood in the Temple, according to the scriptures as I understand them, he has sinned against the Holy Ghost (as defined in D&C 84:41) and is a Son of Perdition.

its a 3 part requirement:

1. But whoso breaketh this ^acovenant

2. after he hath received it,

and

3. altogether turneth therefrom,

you have to receive, break, AND altogether turn away therefrom. Do you have a scripture which explains what "altogehter turneth therefrom"?

this from "True to the Faith"

Perdition

Some people will not be worthy to dwell in any kingdom of glory. They will be called

[zerinus]

The parable is about those who WORK in the vineyard, not those who call on the masters name. This is about how the works of all who labor in the vineyard whether, it be Adam the first laborer or us the last workers called to work in the vineyard we all receive the same reward, eternal life.

Now I don't feel that deathbed confessions are done in a humble and contrite heart in most cases, but out of fear of the afterlife now that death is knocking on the door.

Repenting can only occur with a humble heart and a contrite spirit, as the scriptures say, and it is up to the Lord to determine that, I always am one to say repent now cause delaying your day of repentance has eternal consequences.

I am reminded of the story of Manasseh, one of the king of the Jews mentioned in the Old Testament. He was one of the wickedest (if not the wickedest) kings that had ever reigned in Jerusalem. You can read his story here. He committed murder, and idolatry, and every abomination under the sun. Then the Lord chastened him by allowing his enemies to capture him and take him to Babylon and put him in jail. There he suffered until he repented! And God forgave him, and brought him back to his throne in Jerusalem, and from then on he became a good king! You can read the rest of his story here. So, before we start prejudging people, we need to bear in mind that God knows things that we don't know, and His verdict may very well be different from ours.

[frankenstein]

Hi Frankenstein,

As far as scripture is concerned, I'm not sure that timing matters (at least from my understanding of the three parables Christ gives after the Pharisees comment about Christ welcoming and eating with sinners). It seems that sincerity and a real change of heart are the determining factor.

Of course, this leaves the often uncomfortable notion that some

[tana]

In a recent thread on here I made what I think is a reasonable argument for the case that it doesn't appear logical that god can surely know with 100% accuracy the intent, or next move a truly *free will* endowed entity. Even if he can somehow determine the character value of their core by examining what it consists of in a *snapshot/now* moment of existence, he still has to rate it on a scale. And that rating would seemingly only be accurate for that moment. It would seem that it would have to be an infinite scale, with no two cores identical.

If this existence really is a reward and punishment system. With an end goal of sifting the bad seeds out, because they somehow are personally responsible for acquiring a faulty core, then cores and their attachments and their behavior must all be quantified and a value attached. From their first moment of sentient accountability in the pre-life, to the moment the clock runs out on the test in the after-life.

It seems clear to me on this thread that most posters assign a value to behavior. As soon as one gives behavior a value it then must be qualified and isolated to a point on an infinite scale. Every thought, performance and core rated and tallied. with no two scores identical. And entry in to each final disposition location must have precise qualification.

Curt

[LDSToronto]

Alright. After thinking on this for a day, I'm right back where I originally started. So here's my attempt at playing God:

I do not rank them.

I frankly forgive them all the minute they ask for mercy. (Luke 7:42)

Then I send them to seek forgiveness of those they've offended. (Luke 16:19-31)

For some that will be easier than for others.

And finally I watch and wait until they are willing to receive my love and mercy at which point I fall upon their necks, clothe them and put rings on them (Luke 15) and welcome them all into my kingdom, spotless. (D&C 76:107)

I'm changing my answer to your answer. I, GOD, am repenting for my previous judgments.

H.

[Jeff K.]

God will allow them to judge themselves. As such its not my concern.

Consider for example that number 1 may be struggling to overcome something that is killing him inside. Number 2 seems fine, but the descriptions don't show the entire life of the individual and what brought him to that part. The last one could just as easily be the first one.

In a court of law all three will be dealt with according to the laws of man. I would not want to judge any of them since they all shall choose for themselves where they fit best in God's many kingdoms.

Then I guess I am a shoo-in for the celestial kingdom.

Cool!

Not sure, not my place to say. But I would not be surprised that when stripped of the trappings of self deception that many of use will be surprised at where we are most comfortable.

[mercyngrace]

But I would not be surprised that when stripped of the trappings of self deception that many of use will be surprised at where we are most comfortable.

I couldn't agree more, Jeff, I couldn't agree more.

[tana]

Not sure, not my place to say. But I would not be surprised that when stripped of the trappings of self deception that many of use will be surprised at where we are most comfortable.

I think that there are issues with the logistics of souls judging themselves. Since there doesn

[Jeff K.]

I believe that most of our lives we know what we should do, and sometimes we do the right thing for the wrong reason. We may pay tithing for example, not because we feel it is the Lord's money, but because we want our bishop and peers respect. Inside we may know this and try mightly to exclude it from how others might see us (something we inherited from the Romans). When we stand before God, I do not know that we will be "enlightened" since we know our choices and know our motivations, we may simply choose not to acknowledge those motivations. Standing before objective truth, which is also the truth of who we are, I think we will in that sense judge where we can stand based on our decisions.

The knowledge of what we do and our motivations are known to us. When we do something we do it for good or ill will. We may not remember it later, we may even convince ourselves we did something wrong for very good reasons later, but at the time, the truth is much clearer. Our memories will play tricks later. But the present always has clear motivation for our actions.

The truth is not revelatory in that something knew (pun intended) is added. It is revelatory in that our lies are removed.

[tana]

I believe that most of our lives we know what we should do, and sometimes we do the right thing for the wrong reason. We may pay tithing for example, not because we feel it is the Lord's money, but because we want our bishop and peers respect. Inside we may know this and try mightly to exclude it from how others might see us (something we inherited from the Romans). When we stand before God, I do not know that we will be "enlightened" since we know our choices and know our motivations, we may simply choose not to acknowledge those motivations. Standing before objective truth, which is also the truth of who we are, I think we will in that sense judge where we can stand based on our decisions.

The knowledge of what we do and our motivations are known to us. When we do something we do it for good or ill will. We may not remember it later, we may even convince ourselves we did something wrong for very good reasons later, but at the time, the truth is much clearer. Our memories will play tricks later. But the present always has clear motivation for our actions.

The truth is not revelatory in that something knew (pun intended) is added. It is revelatory in that our lies are removed.

Good post!

I do have something in mind here, I