LDS county commisioner cuts funding to Head Start program

[thesometimesaint]

Head Start saves $6 for every $1 spent.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Head_Start.aspx

[USU78]

"The furor started when Smith sought to explain his vote to cut $2.3 million out of the county's Head Start program for nearly 300 toddlers in low-income families."

Smith, an active LDS, distributed "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" as his reason for voting against the 'Head Start' program.

As a priesthood holder and as a devout LDS, doesn't Smith have an obligation to care for the poor, not make their situation worse?

Absolutely a priesthood holder and devout LDS has an obligation to care for the poor and not make their situation worse.

A personal obligation.

He does not have an obligation to affect a compulsory confiscation of the treasure of A, B, C, and D in order to pay the administrative costs, which probably exceed the actual cost of providing for the poor by a great deal, so that poor E can eat, have decent clothes, and a roof over his head.

As Dame Margaret said: The problem with government social programs is that, at some point, you run out of other people's money.

[thesometimesaint]

Comments deleted. Political diatribe not needed. mods

[Jeff K.]

I don't think headstart is the issue. It seems to me the OP was dealing with the questions of someone cutting the budget and they used their philosophy, a philosophy apparently shared by Mormons and non Mormons alike on the commission. So is it really a religious issue or is it simply a commonly shared philosophy. The rest is simply flotsam and jetsam.

[thesometimesaint]

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/admin.html

[Jeff K.]

Sorry but what does that have to do with the price of beans?

[rpn]

I hate it when politicians use the gospel as an excuse for their public policy decisions. Anyone who knows anything about poor families knows that even if the parents are slobs who sit around doing nothing (and almost assuredly if they are), the children are better off getting early education opportunities. The funds spent on early effective intervention, and continuing extra intervention, with good people, is repaid in the number of kiddos who are able to make a different live than the one they grew up in.

Of course that doesn't mean a specific Headstart program is that effective program. Nor does it mean that a community can afford the service at all. Nor does it mean that a voucher for the day care program of their choice might not be more cost effective.

[thesometimesaint]

Jeff K.:

Very simply Jeff. If I can deliver beans to you far cheaper than you can produce them. Then I am more efficient. To do anything less is to throw good money after bad. Head Start saves $6 for ever $1 dollar spent.

[Jaybear]

Jeff K.:

Very simply Jeff. If I can deliver beans to you far cheaper than you can produce them. Then I am more efficient. To do anything less is to throw good money after bad. Head Start saves $6 for ever $1 dollar spent.

Perhaps this analogy might help.

It costs much less to patch a leaky roof today, then to replace the roof in 6 months.

[thesometimesaint]

Jaybear:

Agreed.

[Vance]

Perhaps this analogy might help.

It costs much less to patch a leaky roof today, then to replace the roof in 6 months.

So, it is better to reduce spending now to be in line with revenue, than to deficit spend the Government entity into bankruptcy later. Right?

[Jeff K.]

Jeff K.:

Very simply Jeff. If I can deliver beans to you far cheaper than you can produce them. Then I am more efficient. To do anything less is to throw good money after bad. Head Start saves $6 for ever $1 dollar spent.

First off your link doesn't show causality.

Secondly, you may deliver beans cheaper than I can produce them, but that doesn't mean your way is the most efficient or best way to produce them.

[Jeff K.]

Perhaps this analogy might help.

It costs much less to patch a leaky roof today, then to replace the roof in 6 months.

If you want to tell me it is good for children to have an earlier education or an education that begins as early as possible. I agree. If you want to tell me that such an early education is best handled by the government, I would disagree. My youngest daughter did not go to kindergarten, we as parents taught her at home. She could read and write better than most first graders and now in the sixth grade is near the top of her class. My wife an I both had full time jobs with responsibility. Oh, and the government didn't have to pay a dime for it.

The government isn't always the answer, though more times than not, I have seen it as part of the problem.

[LDSToronto]

If you want to tell me it is good for children to have an earlier education or an education that begins as early as possible. I agree. If you want to tell me that such an early education is best handled by the government, I would disagree. My youngest daughter did not go to kindergarten, we as parents taught her at home. She could read and write better than most first graders and now in the sixth grade is near the top of her class. My wife an I both had full time jobs with responsibility. Oh, and the government didn't have to pay a dime for it.

Your link doesn't show causality.

H.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Frederick official's comment that a woman's place is in the home creates uproar

Here's an excerpt:

"The furor started when Smith sought to explain his vote to cut $2.3 million out of the county's Head Start program for nearly 300 toddlers in low-income families."

Smith, an active LDS, distributed "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" as his reason for voting against the 'Head Start' program.

As a priesthood holder and as a devout LDS, doesn't Smith have an obligation to care for the poor, not make their situation worse?

Discuss.

H.

I think this falls under the heading of

[Jeff K.]

Your link doesn't show causality.

H.

Disengenuous but I'll bite.

If you want to tell me it is good for children to have an earlier education or an education that begins as early as possible. I agree. If you want to tell me that such an early education is best handled by the government, I would disagree. My youngest daughter did not go to kindergarten, we as parents taught her at home. She could read and write better than most first graders and now in the sixth grade is near the top of her class. My wife an I both had full time jobs with responsibility. Oh, and the government didn't have to pay a dime for it.

I will write slow for you. Government wasn't involved in the early education of my child or children for that matter. We taught them how to read and write and cypher at home as part of our responsibility as parents. The government wasn't involved.

[Avatar4321]

I think there is another issue underlying this one. It's the assumption that it's good to separate children from their parents at young ages. I am not sure I agree with this no matter what the supposedly good cause is.

Who is it responsible for education of children/parents? The government? Or the parents?

I am often dismayed by the emotional "For the children" arguments that never really seem to discuss what the best options for the children actually are.

[thesometimesaint]

Jeff K.:

Anecdotal evidence at best.

[thesometimesaint]

Vance:

Yes in times of Depression or Recession deficit spending is the only way to recover economically.

[Jeff K.]

Jeff K.:

Anecdotal evidence at best.

Never said it wasn't anecdotal. Just that in my experience it is plausible and more efficient. I have yet to see a study that states parents who put forth the effort are less successful teaching their children than the government.

[Jeff K.]

Vance:

Yes in times of Depression or Recession deficit spending is the only way to recover economically.

So says Keynes, but then it hasn't been shown to be so with any conclusive evidence. Indeed we left Keynes ideas in the trashbin in the 1980's. Or rather some still cling to it. But it nearly ruined us in the 1970's.

[thesometimesaint]

Jeff K.:

http://www.kyklosproductions.com/articles/wages.html

The(ir) average real hourly wages were less at the end of 2000 than they were in 1979! And since 2000 their wages have continued to slide further.

[Jeff K.]

And is this a question of the efficiency of head start? A different department completely.

[LDSToronto]

Disengenuous but I'll bite.

Jeff, are you holding others to a higher standard when it comes to causality? See evidence below:

Very simply Jeff. If I can deliver beans to you far cheaper than you can produce them. Then I am more efficient. To do anything less is to throw good money after bad. Head Start saves $6 for ever $1 dollar spent.

First off your link doesn't show causality.

If you want to tell me it is good for children to have an earlier education or an education that begins as early as possible. I agree. If you want to tell me that such an early education is best handled by the government, I would disagree. My youngest daughter did not go to kindergarten, we as parents taught her at home. She could read and write better than most first graders and now in the sixth grade is near the top of her class. My wife an I both had full time jobs with responsibility. Oh, and the government didn't have to pay a dime for it.

Your link doesn't show causality.

[Jeff K.]

I showed it. The link dealt with wages versus social security which I found to show nothing. The fact that you could find a direct link (anecdotal or not) speaks to your lack of grasping the situation.