Why should one become a Mormon?

[elguanteloko]

Faith. Which is just another word for trust.

Why would I want to have faith in God? That is.. why should one become a Mormon?

If you want to take another road, though, you're free to take it, and to arrive at the destination that lies at the end of it.

Right on, thanks.

We were slaves to sin. He bought us off the auction block at Satan's slave market.

It's pretty mainstream New Testament stuff.

If you want to understand it, don't ask me. Study the New Testament.

Clear. So, someone bought us from a bad master (Satan), what in there points to having to be greatful to our new master? For all we know, he could be worse or just as bad or good.

I think they're recognizable, and that hundreds and hundreds of millions of people on the earth right now have, at least from time to time, recognized them. You might call it "tacit knowledge."

I think I didn't make myself clear enough. I said "infinite love and wisdom" are senseless concepts. Are you saying these things are recognizable with finite minds?

I don't see a point to hyperskepticism. It simply results in nihilism and an infinite regress.

Me neither. Good thing that's not what I'm doing.

To be like God is a good of "primary intent," or, rather, a bundle of such goods. There's no point in asking why one should desire them. They cannot be further analyzed.

Indeed the concept of "infinite love and wisdom" can't be further analyzed or analyzed at all, for that matter. Thus, making it useless to bring it up, really.

Maybe you don't.

maybe or maybe not. since it makes no sense I don't see why I should.

That's fine. I'm serenely confident that, in the end, people will get what they really want.

Have at it, brother!

That's rather the point of this whole exercise.

I didn't catch that. What "point" are you talking about?

[Daniel Peterson]

As I said, eiguanteloko, one either recognizes the good or one doesn't. Ultimate goods can't be analyzed. They can't be justified in terms of lesser or other goods. That's why they're called ultimate goods.

His sheep recognize his voice. Which seems to suggest that there are sheep who won't.

For you, though, and because I myself see problems in the word and actually seldom use it, I'll drop the term infinite and substitute for it maximal.

Good luck on the road you're traveling.

So let me get this straight.

1) You believe that an infinitely good and wise God (who is also supposedly omnipotent) would fail so miserably in redeeming his "crowning achievement" that less than .02% of the humans he created would have a chance of gaining the exaltation that you claim he wants for all his creation.

I'm not a Scientist, so I don't have access to your rigorous scientific figures.

Call it l

[elguanteloko]

As I said, eiguanteloko, one either recognizes the good or one doesn't. Ultimate goods can't be analyzed. They can't be justified in terms of lesser or other goods. That's why they're called ultimate goods.

His sheep recognize his voice. Which seems to suggest that there are sheep who won't.

What an answer! Thanks for reminding me the work of the apologist.

[Daniel Peterson]

What an answer! Thanks for reminding me the work of the apologist.

You would, I suppose, fault the geometer for not proving his axioms?

We've gone back and forth before, eiguanteloko, and I, at least, found it tiresome and pointless.

If you don't wish to believe, if the gospel doesn't speak to your soul, if the goods it proclaims don't draw you, then, by all means, go your way.

We have no tools with which to force your assent, and have never claimed such.

Good night, and sweet dreams.

[elguanteloko]

Now a musical interlude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvPGx-REgR8

[elguanteloko]

Daniel Peterson said:

Good night, and sweet dreams.

Dr. Peterson, I actually chose the musical interlude song BEFORE I saw the above comment of yours. A cosmic convergense, I suppose!

[elguanteloko]

You would, I suppose, fault the geometer for not proving his axioms?

No and I'm not asking you to "prove your axioms". I'm questioning those axioms as axioms in the first place. They clearly aren't. Saying God is infinitely loving and wise makes no sense (thus, your "axiom" is senseless).

We've gone back and forth before, eiguanteloko, and I, at least, found it tiresome and pointless.

Too bad, I guess.

If you don't wish to believe, if the gospel doesn't speak to your soul, if the goods it proclaims don't draw you, then, by all means, go your way.

I'm going. Though it is misleading to say I don't wish to believe (not implying it's opposite).

We have no tools with which to force your assent, and have never claimed such.

...

Good night, and sweet dreams.

Aw, you're too sweet.

[todd520]

So, why should one become a Mormon? What is that Mormonism offers, really?

Input appreciated!

After reading through the posts, you appear to enjoy the debate but are not a sincere investigator.

Have you read James Fowler and his work on Stages of Faith?

It would be well worth your time.

[thesometimesaint]

elguanteloko:

Because it is so much fun.

[Monster]

Why would anyone stay in an organization they don't agree with and then argue and try to change it, anyways? It seems silly and pointless to me.

Because it holds sway over your family members. It dictats how you get to interact with them. Besides it is just as much their church as yours. Why do you not leave so things can change?

[Sky]

So, why should one become a Mormon? What is that Mormonism offers, really?

Input appreciated!

The core tenet of Mormonism is that our Heavenly Father and His son, Jesus Christ, called a prophet named Joseph Smith to restore the ancient church and usher in the dispensation of the fullness of times. Mormonism is helping to prepare the world for the eventual return of the Savior. Living prophets and apostles continue to direct the work here on earth. They help us to stay on the path that leads back to our Heavenly Father. This, among many other reasons, is what makes Mormonism so wonderful and rewarding for me.

[BCSpace]

Eternal Life which is to live with the Gods as Gods.

Why would anyone want that? What's of praise in those "Gods" as to want to live an E.T.E.R.N.I.T.Y. with them?

[nicolasconnault]

True knowledge is empowering and freeing.

???

Do these 3 question marks represent the depth of the thought processes you had to endure to make sense of my statement? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you didn't really think about what it means. Perhaps you are familiar with the scripture that says "The Truth shall make you free.".

True knowledge comes from God, the only ultimate source of truth.

I wonder how you get to know this other than "God told me his teachings are the ultimate source of truth".

An omniscient God is obviously a reliable source of Truth.

God shares that knowledge through the Holy Ghost. Only members of the LDS Church have the gift of the Holy Ghost, thus have the greatest access to true knowledge. Human potential is enormous, and can best be achieved when in possession of true knowledge.

What potential(s) can be so maximized in the Church that can't be maximized outside of it?

I'm not sure you worded your question correctly. You can't "maximise" a potential, since a potential is a maximum. The full measure of human potential can only be reached when in possession of truth. That truth is found is some measure outside the LDS Church, but only fully accessible to those who have the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[ed2276]

My observation is alot of self righteousnes and works of all you can do , and must do!

Do's and Don't!

But that is not a gospel that is a bunch of doctrines and legalism at most!

have you ever though of becoming a muslim or Jehovah witness , just for GP??

one love

So, when the Lord gave a bunch of doctrines and commandments of works of righteousness He wasn't preaching His Gospel; He was merely engaging in legalism at most?

Let me ask you this: Must a man repent to be saved? Must a man have faith in Jesus Christ as His Saviour? Must a man not commit adultery, fornication, murder, and a host of other sinful acts in order to have Eternal Life?

If a man must repent and have faith in Jesus Christ those are works of righteousness he must do to be saved. If a murderer, adulterer, fornicator, etc. cannot have Eternal Life then a man must not do those things to have Eternal Life. Or, in your opinion, are these do's and don'ts merely legalisms with no relation to the Gospel at all?

[elguanteloko]

Do these 3 question marks represent the depth of the thought processes you had to endure to make sense of my statement? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you didn't really think about what it means. Perhaps you are familiar with the scripture that says "The Truth shall make you free.".

In what specific sense are you using it?

An omniscient God is obviously a reliable source of Truth.

Is Satan a reliable source of truth about what he knows? am I a reliable source of truth about what I know? Whatever we told you was the case, how would you conclude that what we said was REALLY the case? That's what I meant.

I'm not sure you worded your question correctly. You can't "maximise" a potential, since a potential is a maximum.

To maximize a potential is to make it more probable that such possibility becomes an actuality.

The full measure of human potential can only be reached when in possession of truth.

You are clearly not talking about all human potential but the good human potential. So, I have the potential to kill people and make them suffer unjustifiably but you, I hope, don't want me to fulfill that potential.

That truth is found is some measure outside the LDS Church, but only fully accessible to those who have the gift of the Holy Ghost.

...

[Calm]

Because it holds sway over your family members. It dictats how you get to interact with them. Besides it is just as much their church as yours. Why do you not leave so things can change?

And for all those members who are the only members or are among just a few in their family? Why did they become LDS?

[Calm]

So, when the Lord gave a bunch of doctrines and commandments of works of righteousness He wasn't preaching His Gospel; He was merely engaging in legalism at most?

Just think how much shorter the NT could have been and thus wider read and likely applied properly if they only used the relevant to salvation parts of Christ's teachings and left out all those confusing commandments and such.

[nicolasconnault]

It's amusing, though not surprising, to see how this thread has turned into a debate between LDS who explain why they think their religion is worthwhile (you could hardly blame them for doing so), and those who are trying to prove them wrong.

[Calm]

though not surprising

The OPer's responses to LDS comments more or less guaranteed that.

[Deborah]

In my Primary lesson this morning are the reasons listed for wanting to become members of the COJCOLDS.

1. To obey Heavenly Father.

2. To have Jesus

[Senator]

In my Primary lesson this morning are the reasons listed for wanting to become members of the COJCOLDS.

1. To obey Heavenly Father.

2. To have Jesus

[Monster]

So, when the Lord gave a bunch of doctrines and commandments of works of righteousness He wasn't preaching His Gospel; He was merely engaging in legalism at most?

Let me ask you this: Must a man repent to be saved? Must a man have faith in Jesus Christ as His Saviour? Must a man not commit adultery, fornication, murder, and a host of other sinful acts in order to have Eternal Life?

If a man must repent and have faith in Jesus Christ those are works of righteousness he must do to be saved. If a murderer, adulterer, fornicator, etc. cannot have Eternal Life then a man must not do those things to have Eternal Life. Or, in your opinion, are these do's and don'ts merely legalisms with no relation to the Gospel at all?

I find putting fornication in the same realm as murder somewhat troubling.

[Monster]

In my Primary lesson this morning are the reasons listed for wanting to become members of the COJCOLDS.

1. To obey Heavenly Father.

2. To have Jesus

[todd520]

Monster,

I also urge you to study the below work. It will help answer some of your questions.

After reading through the posts, you appear to enjoy the debate but are not a sincere investigator.

Have you read James Fowler and his work on Stages of Faith?

It would be well worth your time.

[Deborah]

Although the above items are not novel to the LDS alone, if you are interested in these things, you might be interested in the Mormon conception of such. We invite you to come and see!

Except we claim to

1. Understand the true nature of Heavenly Father

2. To understand the true teachings of Jesus

3. To understand that forgiveness is more than just accepting Jesus

4. To have the gift of the Holy Ghost from proper Priesthood authority, and what the "gift" truly is

5. To return and live with Heavenly Father and Jesus.

6. To be a member of God