consiglieri Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I am wondering if too much pressure is put on prophets to never make a mistake from the very beginning of their career.In any other field of endeavor, we would think it normal for a person to make mistakes (and plenty of mistakes) on the road to becoming accomplished.And yet, with prophets, we seem to think they may never make a mistake from day one.Is this a little like expecting a ballet dancer to never make a mistake, to never practice, and to never even appear on stage until he is a Baryshnikov?I am thinking if we took so much pressure off being a prophet, maybe we would have more folks trying their hand at it.And maybe we could be a little easier on Joseph Smith . . .I would rather have a prophet making mistakes along the way than a prophet who doesn't dare open his mouth for fear of failing.Thoughts?All the Best!--Consiglieri
CA Steve Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 This is not likely to ever happen again due to mass communication.
Anijen Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I feel that we as members do not expect perfection from our leaders and they would not expect us to have that expectation (except when they are discussing geography). Hmmm that is a lot of expecting.Speaking of geography OTOH I have seen many lately hold the opinion that every utterance or paragraph written from our leaders sometimes are expected to be doctrinal truth even before they were well, leaders.
CA Steve Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I feel that we as members do not expect perfection from our leaders and they would not expect us to have that expectation (except when they are discussing geography). Hmmm that is a lot of expecting.Speaking of geography OTOH I have seen many lately hold the opinion that every utterance or paragraph written from our leaders sometimes are expected to be doctrinal truth even before they were well, leaders.I think as members we expect them to be perfect when they are acting as prophets.I think the rest of the world (that pays any attention) expects them to be perfect all the time.
High Priest Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I don't think many people expect the prophets and other leaders to not make mistakes. BUT, we want them to own up to what is a mistake so members know if something they were taught in church should be considered gospel or not.
ELF1024 Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 This is not likely to ever happen again due to mass communication.Somehow I don't think that the Nekkid Prophet would have flown over very well on CNN...I wonder how desperate the Lord had to be in order for someone like Jonah to be a Prophet. He has to be the worst example of a Prophet in the OT.
mercyngrace Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I agree that we tend to expect perfection out of our prophets. I think it's unreasonable and a sign of spiritual immaturity and idolatry.I see a lot of parallels in how we view our prophets and how the children of Israel saw Moses. Some LDS seem to want them to do all the thinking for us and have created an unhealthy level of dependency. This is clearly recognized by some of our church leaders (See Pres. Uchtdorf's "don't inhale" comments in the last PH session of GC).It's my opinion, that we get the prophets we are prepared to receive. And as is often the case (Enoch, Moses, Joseph Smith) when a prophet is sent to preach a higher law, we aren't ready and end up reverting to a preparatory law).My feeling is if you want a prophet that calls down fire, be a believer with faith enough to withstand the heat. (Remember even Christ had to put the unbelievers the house of Jairus.)
thesometimesaint Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 IIRC it was JS that said something to the effect that if we expect him to be perfect. He'd expect us to be perfect.
tana Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 If one can't believe every word that comes from a prophet's mouth, how does one know which words to believe?
ELF1024 Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 If one can't believe every word that comes from a prophet's mouth, how does one know which words to believe?James 1:5-6Was Moses acting as a prophet when he complained that his bowels didn't move? How come that bit of Moses' words didn't make the Bible.
thesometimesaint Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 tana39:If any lack wisdom let him ask of God.
Calm Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 If one can't believe every word that comes from a prophet's mouth, how does one know which words to believe?How does one know a prophet is a prophet in the first place? Because the prophet tells one he is? Or because one seeks God's opinion on the matter?If the second, then why does anyone feel that it is required of them to stop asking any more questions after that? Why not keep seeking God's opinion on that matter and any other that occurs.I see the prophet as providing direction in letting us know what type of questions the Lord really wants us to ask him, but the prophet definitely does not limit what we can seek out the Lord's wisdom about nor does his existence or calling mean that the Lord does not want us to seek out God's Will in all things.
Palerider Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I think there are mixed messages being sent:1. Always follow the prophet, he knows the way.2. The prophet will never lead you astray.3. Even if he does tell you the wrong thing, God will make it turn out all right.4. The prophet isn't perfect.5. If he makes a mistake you can't criticize him.6. He can criticize (correct) you in any area of life whether he is expert or not.7. Always ask the Lord if the prophet is correct in a teaching.8. If you ask the Lord if the prophet is correct and the Lord tells you "No", you are out of the way and misguided.Conclusion.....? It's good to be the prophet.....
Lightbearer Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I think the preconceived ideas of what a prophet is and how he should act is a direct result of the type of person doing the judging:(Helaman 13:25-28) "And now when ye talk, ye say: If our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out. Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil. But behold, if a man shall come among you and shall say: Do this, and there is no iniquity; do that and ye shall not suffer; yea, he will say: Walk after the pride of your own hearts; yea, walk after the pride of your eyes, and do whatsoever your heart desireth
tana Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I think there are mixed messages being sent:1. Always follow the prophet, he knows the way.2. The prophet will never lead you astray.3. Even if he does tell you the wrong thing, God will make it turn out all right.4. The prophet isn't perfect.5. If he makes a mistake you can't criticize him.6. He can criticize (correct) you in any area of life whether he is expert or not.7. Always ask the Lord if the prophet is correct in a teaching.8. If you ask the Lord if the prophet is correct and the Lord tells you "No", you are out of the way and misguided.Conclusion.....? It's good to be the prophet.....
thesometimesaint Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 tana39:If a prophet told you to come cross the river with him would you?
Hestia Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Conclusion.....? It's good to be the prophet.....Is this an attempt to be humorous as it comes across as offensive.
selek Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I think there are mixed messages being sent:1. Always follow the prophet, he knows the way.2. The prophet will never lead you astray.3. Even if he does tell you the wrong thing, God will make it turn out all right.4. The prophet isn't perfect.5. If he makes a mistake you can't criticize him.6. He can criticize (correct) you in any area of life whether he is expert or not.7. Always ask the Lord if the prophet is correct in a teaching.8. If you ask the Lord if the prophet is correct and the Lord tells you "No", you are out of the way and misguided.Conclusion.....? It's good to be the prophet.....This is a gross (in both meanings of the word) oversimplification of the counsel, teachings, and guidance which faithful Latter-day Saints receive- and of the covenant they are asked to keep.It is (in my opinion) an inescapably offensive straw man intended to incite rather than to elicit rationale discourse.How are we to converse seriously with you when your response is derision?How can we discuss reasonably when all you offer is mockery?What common ground can we share when all you offer is ridicule?
CV75 Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Conclusion.....? It's good to be the prophetNo mixed message at all. Conclusion: it is good to enjoy all the spiritual benefits of membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints.
jadams_4242 Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 If one can't believe every word that comes from a prophet's mouth, how does one know which words to believe? i know from years of personal experiance, that nobody can be guided by the spirit 24 seven,,, the worlds influences put a damper on spiritual companionship all the time;;; with the exception of being in the temple,, speaking at genearal conferance e;t;c.. when we are prepared we "WILL" have the Holy Ghost to guide... even prophets and apostles canott "be in the temple" 24 hours a day.
Palerider Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Is this an attempt to be humorous as it comes across as offensive.It was not intended to be offensive, just an observation that it seems to be an enviable position in which to be. To say as some have that it is a gross oversimplification is I believe, somewhat hyperbolic and I don't see that anything in my previous remark is far off the mark. If so, please tell me where.
Balzer Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I don't think many people expect the prophets and other leaders to not make mistakes. BUT, we want them to own up to what is a mistake so members know if something they were taught in church should be considered gospel or not.This is true for non-members too. One of the frustrating things for anyone trying to understand this religion is figuring out what is doctrine vs what isn't, what is a prophet's personal musings vs what is gospel, etc.Respectfully,Balzer
Palerider Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 This is true for non-members too. One of the frustrating things for anyone trying to understand this religion is figuring out what is doctrine vs what isn't, what is a prophet's personal musings vs what is gospel, etc.Respectfully,BalzerDoesn't that create the question then of why doesn't church leadership openly (that would be in conference) disclose errant teachings, etc., rather than have an apparent policy of "quiet non-recognition"?
thesometimesaint Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Palerider:Did you miss OD2, and BRM's apology?
Palerider Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Palerider:Did you miss OD2, and BRM's apology?Could you CFR?
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