The New LDS.org Website Compared With The Old!

[zerinus]

The new LDS.org website is going to replace the old one by the 30th of this month, and the old one will remain active for a couple of months, and then will be closed down for good. I have not explored all aspects of the new site, so I cannot comment on the site as a whole. Comparing just the home pages, I can't say I am substantially more impressed by the new one over the old one. While it has some obvious attractions over the old one, the old one seems to have its advantages too, especially in the way the various elements were laid out in relation to each other. My purpose in starting this thread, however, is not to compare the entire sites together, but only the scripture tools available in either site. And from that point of view, the old site wins hands down.

Just about the only advantage I see with the new scriptures tool over the old one is that it presents the scriptures in a more readable way on the screen; and that is about it. When it comes to doing sophisticated searches, either word searches or reference searches, it is an absolute disaster by comparison. In the new tool you can only do the simplest reference searches such as Matthew 12:1-8, 12-14. If you make it a bit more complicated such as Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 5:12-14 it fails miserably. In the old scriptures tool not only Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 5:12-14 produces intelligent results, you can give it as complicated an expression as you like, and it will still give you great results. You can try it yourselves. Here is just a random expression as an example: Genesis 5:3-5, 8-12; Isaiah 45:3-6, 8-12; Matthew 16:1-9; 3 Nephi 20:5-7, 12-14; D&C 88:1-8, 22-35, 56-63.

In word searches also there is no comparison. I tried the word "Christ" in the new tool. It took a long time to reply, and after a long struggle this is what it gave me. Hardly impressive, and there is no ability to narrow the search to specific books, and choose special preferences and options. I tried the same with the old tool, and it not only gave me instant results of a very impressive kind, but allowed me to narrow it specifically to the Book of Mormon (or any other book if I wanted to), and select other options to produce the optimum desired results. (I could not insert a link because there is a bug in the MADB software that makes it report: "You have entered a link to a website that the administrator does not allow links to"! You will have to try it yourselves. Search for Christ, and then at the top of the search results choose the Book of Mormon from the drop down menu, and uncheck the boxes that says: "Footnotes", "Sort by relevance," and "Highlight search words" to get the optimum search results narrowed down to the Book of Mormon).

Note especially that all the reference headings in that search result are themselves links which you can click and it will take you to the original text with the search result highlighted. Very impressive indeed!

The old tool is an absolute gem not only for doing searches online, but an indispensable tool for blogging and message boards. The new tool is a disaster by comparison. It simply does not serve the same function. I hope somebody at the top is listenning, and they will come to their senses and save the old scripture tool if need be along the new one. The new tool may be more useful for those who may want to read the scriptures online, such as those who may not have access to them otherwise; but it simply does not serve the same function as the old one; and it would be a very great shame indeed if the old one was simply done away with. I would be handicapped without it to give online references to scriptures on message boards or even on my Blog.

[CV75]

The new LDS.org website is going to replace the old one

Hopefully it is just a temporary glitch or the timing of setting up all the search features on the new site()...

[TAO]

The new LDS.org website is going to replace the old one by the 30th of this month, and the old one will remain active for a couple of months, and then will be closed down for good. I have not explored all aspects of the new site, so I cannot comment on the site as a whole. Comparing just the home pages, I can't say I am substantially more impressed by the new one over the old one. While it has some obvious attractions over the old one, the old one seems to have its advantages too, especially in the way the various elements were laid out in relation to each other. My purpose in starting this thread, however, is not to compare the entire sites together, but only the scripture tools available in either site. And from that point of view, the old site wins hands down.

Just about the only advantage I see with the new scriptures tool over the old one is that it presents the scriptures in a more readable way on the screen; and that is about it. When it comes to doing sophisticated searches, either word searches or reference searches, it is an absolute disaster by comparison. In the new tool you can only do the simplest reference searches such as Matthew 12:1-8, 12-14. If you make it a bit more complicated such as Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 5:12-14 it fails miserably. In the old scriptures tool not only Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 5:12-14 produces intelligent results, you can give it as complicated an expression as you like, and it will still give you great results. You can try it yourselves. Here is just a random expression as an example: Genesis 5:3-5, 8-12; Isaiah 45:3-6, 8-12; Matthew 16:1-9; 3 Nephi 20:5-7, 12-14; D&C 88:1-8, 22-35, 56-63.

In word searches also there is no comparison. I tried the word "Christ" in the new tool. It took a long time to reply, and after a long struggle this is what it gave me. Hardly impressive, and there is no ability to narrow the search to specific books, and choose special preferences and options. I tried the same with the old tool, and it not only gave me instant results of a very impressive kind, but allowed me to narrow it specifically to the Book of Mormon (or any other book if I wanted to), and select other options to produce the optimum desired results. (I could not insert a link because there is a bug in the MADB software that makes it report: "You have entered a link to a website that the administrator does not allow links to"! You will have to try it yourselves. Search for Christ, and then at the top of the search results choose the Book of Mormon from the drop down menu, and uncheck the boxes that says: "Footnotes", "Sort by relevance," and "Highlight search words" to get the optimum search results narrowed down to the Book of Mormon).

Note especially that all the reference headings in that search result are themselves links which you can click and it will take you to the original text with the search result highlighted. Very impressive indeed!

The old tool is an absolute gem not only for doing searches online, but an indispensable tool for blogging and message boards. The new tool is a disaster by comparison. It simply does not serve the same function. I hope somebody at the top is listenning, and they will come to their senses and save the old scripture tool if need be along the new one. The new tool may be more useful for those who may want to read the scriptures online, such as those who may not have access to them otherwise; but it simply does not serve the same function as the old one; and it would be a very great shame indeed if the old one was simply done away with. I would be handicapped without it to give online references to scriptures on message boards or even on my Blog.

Hmmmm... why are you doing combination scripture searches, just curious? I've never used that function before... I always link mine individually....

[BCSpace]

Just about the only advantage I see with the new scriptures tool over the old one is that it presents the scriptures in a more readable way on the screen; and that is about it. When it comes to doing sophisticated searches, either word searches or reference searches, it is an absolute disaster by comparison.

I agree. Until scriptures.lds.org, I had to use other tools and those often included ones that were not for our Church so there was no BOm, D&C, or P.ofG.P. I may have to go back to those tools. Add my voice to any requests for keeping the old functionality.

[zerinus]

Hmmmm... why are you doing combination scripture searches, just curious? I've never used that function before... I always link mine individually....

Because they are useful for giving scripture references online, such as on message boards like this one, and in blogs. That is one use. I can think of more.

[zerinus]

I agree. Until scriptures.lds.org, I had to use other tools and those often included ones that were not for our Church so there was no BOm, D&C, or P.ofG.P. I may have to go back to those tools. Add my voice to any requests for keeping the old functionality.

Thank you. I agree.

[Palerider]

The new LDS.org website is going to replace the old one by the 30th of this month, and the old one will remain active for a couple of months, and then will be closed down for good. I have not explored all aspects of the new site, so I cannot comment on the site as a whole. Comparing just the home pages, I can't say I am substantially more impressed by the new one over the old one. While it has some obvious attractions over the old one, the old one seems to have its advantages too, especially in the way the various elements were laid out in relation to each other. My purpose in starting this thread, however, is not to compare the entire sites together, but only the scripture tools available in either site. And from that point of view, the old site wins hands down.

Just about the only advantage I see with the new scriptures tool over the old one is that it presents the scriptures in a more readable way on the screen; and that is about it. When it comes to doing sophisticated searches, either word searches or reference searches, it is an absolute disaster by comparison. In the new tool you can only do the simplest reference searches such as Matthew 12:1-8, 12-14. If you make it a bit more complicated such as Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 5:12-14 it fails miserably. In the old scriptures tool not only Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 5:12-14 produces intelligent results, you can give it as complicated an expression as you like, and it will still give you great results. You can try it yourselves. Here is just a random expression as an example: Genesis 5:3-5, 8-12; Isaiah 45:3-6, 8-12; Matthew 16:1-9; 3 Nephi 20:5-7, 12-14; D&C 88:1-8, 22-35, 56-63.

In word searches also there is no comparison. I tried the word "Christ" in the new tool. It took a long time to reply, and after a long struggle this is what it gave me. Hardly impressive, and there is no ability to narrow the search to specific books, and choose special preferences and options. I tried the same with the old tool, and it not only gave me instant results of a very impressive kind, but allowed me to narrow it specifically to the Book of Mormon (or any other book if I wanted to), and select other options to produce the optimum desired results. (I could not insert a link because there is a bug in the MADB software that makes it report: "You have entered a link to a website that the administrator does not allow links to"! You will have to try it yourselves. Search for Christ, and then at the top of the search results choose the Book of Mormon from the drop down menu, and uncheck the boxes that says: "Footnotes", "Sort by relevance," and "Highlight search words" to get the optimum search results narrowed down to the Book of Mormon).

Note especially that all the reference headings in that search result are themselves links which you can click and it will take you to the original text with the search result highlighted. Very impressive indeed!

The old tool is an absolute gem not only for doing searches online, but an indispensable tool for blogging and message boards. The new tool is a disaster by comparison. It simply does not serve the same function. I hope somebody at the top is listenning, and they will come to their senses and save the old scripture tool if need be along the new one. The new tool may be more useful for those who may want to read the scriptures online, such as those who may not have access to them otherwise; but it simply does not serve the same function as the old one; and it would be a very great shame indeed if the old one was simply done away with. I would be handicapped without it to give online references to scriptures on message boards or even on my Blog.

Hey Zerinus!

You and I do have common ground. I really use the LDS scripture tool a great deal and would hate to see it go.

[Calm]

If you have complaints, make sure you give them feedback. They do listen to it, they want it...they need it. The website is to be used by the members, the techies want it to work for the members, not for themselves.

I say this as someone who has given feedback over time on the website and other aspects and I have been responded to on most of them (due to the volume they can't respond to all, but they do read them). I also know this because of a relative who works on the lds.org technical side of things.

Not giving feedback makes it harder for them, they have to set up feedback groups and other things and then get very frustrated down the line when they find out that people have been unhappy about something that could have been fixed long ago.

[Vance]

I haven't used the new site at all. But if it can't do everything the old one can do I will be very disappointed.

[rpn]

the new site is beta. you can provide them your feedback.

[zerinus]

I haven't used the new site at all. But if it can't do everything the old one can do I will be very disappointed.

the new site is beta. you can provide them your feedback.

It seems to me that the new site is designed with a different aim in mind. It is designed to present the scriptures in a more readable form to online readers, and from that point of view it is a (small) improvement; but it seems to come at an unacceptable cost. It is hopeless at doing sophisticated searches, which is where the old site is an invaluable tool for research as well as for giving scripture references on message boards and blogs.

[scooby]

there is no ability to narrow the search to specific books

You can, using the "Refine Your Results" options on the right.

[shellinese]

Hi. I'm the product manager for search on new.LDS.org. As calmoriah wrote, we do appreciate feedback and zerinus' post has been very helpful in that respect. I would like to correct one statement, though. We have not set a date to retire the old site, but I expect it will take much longer than a few months before we have all of the language content moved and all of the important features completed.

The scriptures on new.LDS.org are a work in progress. We have not attempted to match the old site feature to feature, but we do intend to create a superior experience. I would appreciate knowing the features on the old site that you find most valuable so that I can better prioritize the work remaining. I can be reached at shellinese@ldschurch.org.

Stewart Shelline

[Calm]

Told ya!

[zerinus]

You can, using the "Refine Your Results" options on the right.

You are right, I had not noticed that. But the rest of my observations I believe are valid.

[zerinus]

Hi. I'm the product manager for search on new.LDS.org. As calmoriah wrote, we do appreciate feedback and zerinus' post has been very helpful in that respect. I would like to correct one statement, though.

Thank you. I was hoping that somebody would notice; I am glad they did!

We have not set a date to retire the old site, but I expect it will take much longer than a few months before we have all of the language content moved and all of the important features completed.

Well, this is what it says on the old site about the new site:

Preparing for the New LDS.org

Beginning November 30 (after additional refining), new.lds.org will become the official LDS.org. Although you will still be able to access this older site

for a few months,

we encourage you to begin using the new site. Several short tutorial videos have been prepared to help you become familiar with the new site.

That was the source of my information.

The scriptures on new.LDS.org are a work in progress. We have not attempted to match the old site feature to feature, but we do intend to create a superior experience. I would appreciate knowing the features on the old site that you find most valuable so that I can better prioritize the work remaining. I can be reached at shellinese@ldschurch.org.

I think I have already answered that as best I could in the OP.

[shellinese]

zerinus:

That is accurate as far as it goes, but "a few months" has yet to be defined internally. I can assure you it won't be until we are confident the majority of our users will have an equivalent or better experience on the new site.

Thanks again for taking the time to point out issues on the new site. If you or others on this thread feel strongly about a feature that is missing on the new site--or have long wanted a feature that is not on either site--please let me know or submit feedback at new.LDS.org. We are listening.

SS

[zerinus]

zerinus:

That is accurate as far as it goes, but "a few months" has yet to be defined internally. I can assure you it won't be until we are confident the majority of our users will have an equivalent or better experience on the new site.

The old scripture tool is already gone! It cannot be reached either from the old or the new site. And the new tool certainly does not provide the same experience as the old one. So that was all a pack of lies then wasn't it.

Thanks again for taking the time to point out issues on the new site. If you or others on this thread feel strongly about a feature that is missing on the new site--or have long wanted a feature that is not on either site--please let me know or submit feedback at new.LDS.org.

And what good is that going to do?

We are listening.

Yea, you bet. You said it and I believed it.

[Brade]

The old scripture tool is already gone! It cannot be reached either from the old or the new site. And the new tool certainly does not provide the same experience as the old one. So that was all a pack of lies then wasn't it.

Wow! zerinus is accusing the COB folks of lying. Never thought I'd see the day. But, seriously, programming and web development isn't like making power point presentations, so I think you ought to ease up a bit. Not only that, but Stewart has taken the time to register here in order to engage with you and get your feedback.

And what good is that going to do?

He told you. Your feedback will help him prioritize their work. Sheesh. Sorry that you can't give scripture references on bulletin boards and blogs like you use to.

[David T]

The old scripture tool is already gone! It cannot be reached either from the old or the new site. And the new tool certainly does not provide the same experience as the old one. So that was all a pack of lies then wasn't it.

No, it wasn't.

The Old Scripture Site.

Calm down, and don't be so quick to label people (and Church organizations) as liars.

[ElfLord]

Is there a way to turn off the "footnote indicators" so you can copy and paste from the scriptures like on the old one?

[Vance]

No, it wasn't.

The Old Scripture Site.

Calm down, and don't be so quick to label people (and Church organizations) as liars.

Thanks for the link. I don't like the new version. Perhaps after I get to know it better I will change my mind.

[David T]

Is there a way to turn off the "footnote indicators" so you can copy and paste from the scriptures like on the old one?

Yes. The button on the right side of the screen that says, 'Hide Footnotes'.

[LeSellers]

I can assure you it won't be until we are confident the majority of our users will have an equivalent or better experience on the new site.

... If you or others on this thread feel strongly about a feature that is missing on the new site--or have long wanted a feature that is not on either site--please let me know or submit feedback at new.LDS.org. We are listening.

I was trying to find a conference talk on missionary work the other day, any talk, but there isn't an equivalent to "library" n the new site, that I could find. The subject search gave me a few entries, but nothing really useful. I ended up taking Elder Nelson's talk from the recent Ensign (which we'll more than likely do again later this year during TFOT). I just didn't have the time to explore the site, but I now the text I am looking for is there somewhere. It's just not very friendly (Of course, the "classic" site wasn't all the great, either, but it made some sense to me, after a while.)

Just a side note: I can't get my new phone number to register on the old ward web site. It stays stuck on the old and useless number, which has caused us to miss calls from several people the past three weeks. Sometimes there was no concern, but there were a few calls that could have saved some trouble. Are the data bases linked in any way? The ward clerks and executive secretary have no way of correcting it, even though the new site has the right information. 'Tseems very odd to me.

Lehi

[zerinus]

No, it wasn't.

The Old Scripture Site.

Calm down, and don't be so quick to label people (and Church organizations) as liars.

Not so fast dude. It wasn't there when I posted this thread. They must have put it back since then. In fact, all the scripture links I had created on websites and on my blog were (and still are) opening in the new scripture site. That is how I came do discover it. I clicked on one of my old links on another forum, and found that it led to the new site; except that the links that it didn't support were broken. Then I checked, and fount that it wasn't there any more, on either site. When clicking on the scripture link on the old site, it led you to the new site. That is why I started this thread. Have a look at this Blog post I made around two years ago. There are two scripture links there made on the old site. Now they are directed at the new site, and neither of them work. Most of my old links that I had made on the old site in blogs and forums don't work any more, because they are directed at the new site, and the new site doesn't support all the different expressions.