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The Book of Mormon is not a history book


Ariarates

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A few months ago I wrote the following about BoM historicity:

The general lack of evidence for the historicity of the Book of Mormon is, to me, more compelling than the anecdotal, unconnected, often far-fetched, and sometimes plain ludicrous interpretations of isolated verses. I mean, slaughtering draft animals, packing the meat on a sled and then pull that sled by hand ... how utterly ridiculous is that?

However, while contemplating these things, I have also found that my testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon ultimately doesn't rest on science but on personal revelation. The same can be said of my testimony of Jesus Christ as my Saviour, for whose existence (even his earthly existence) no scientific evidence exists either. If the lack of evidence for biblical stories doesn't lead me to reject the Bible, why should the lack of evidence for Book of Mormon stories lead me to reject the Book of Mormon?

However, that does imply a need to view the Book of Mormon in a more spiritual and metaphorical sense, and less literal and historically correct (same as the Bible). Personally, I am comfortable with that and hope that the church will, one day, adopt this position and deal a fatal blow to the horse-and-carriage critics of Mormonism. I realize, however, that this will not come about anytime soon, probably not even in my lifetime.

This weekend, Elder Nelson remarked the following during General Conference:

You can invite a friend to read the Book of Mormon. Explain that it is not a novel or a history book. It is another testament of Jesus Christ.

Granted, saying that the BoM

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This weekend, Elder Nelson remarked the following during General Conference:

You can invite a friend to read the Book of Mormon. Explain that it is not a novel or a history book. It is another testament of Jesus Christ

So what do you think, am I being too optimistic and reading too much into these few words?

What is Elder Nelson trying to say here? Either the Book of Mormon is non-fiction (a history) or it is fiction (a novel). Claiming that it is "another testament for Jesus Christ" does not give one a pass on the question of whether it is fiction or non-fiction.

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What Elder Nelson is trying to say here? Either the Book of Mormon is non-fiction (a history) or it is fiction (a novel). Claiming that it is "another testament for Jesus Christ" does not give one a pass on the question of whether it is fiction or non-fiction.

It was all black and white. Suddenly, you saw a twister on the horizon. You took cover in the house but the twister lifted it right off the foundation. When the house finally landed you opened the front door to find yourself in a world of color....

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The same can be said of my testimony of Jesus Christ as my Saviour, for whose existence (even his earthly existence) no scientific evidence exists either. If the lack of evidence for biblical stories doesn't lead me to reject the Bible, why should the lack of evidence for Book of Mormon stories lead me to reject the Book of Mormon?

This is completely bogus analogical "reasoning." We know there was a Galilee and Jerusalem 2000+ years ago. We know Herod, Pontius Pilate, and Caiaphas existed. By way of contrast, there is not a scintilla of evidence for your transoceanic, Reformed-Egyptian-writing, Christians-before-Christ New World Jewry.

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This is completely bogus analogical "reasoning." We know there was a Galilee and Jerusalem 2000+ years ago. We know Herod, Pontius Pilate, and Caiaphas existed. By way of contrast, there is not a scintilla of evidence for your transoceanic, Reformed-Egyptian-writing, Christians-before-Christ New World Jewry.

We know that Troy existed. We know there was a Greece and a Rome. Does that mean that there is evidence that Zeus exists or that the gods sent auspices to direct mankind?

We know that Julius Ceasar existed. Does that give validity to his claim of being the son of a god? We know that Cleopatra existed. Should we say that that is evidence that she is truly the daughter of Isis?

You can't claim that the reality of jerusalem gives legitimacy to Christianity unless you are willing to claim the same for every other myth and legend that happens in a real place and contains stories about people that really did exist.

Are you really willing to claim such?

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We know that Troy existed. We know there was a Greece and a Rome. Does that mean that there is evidence that Zeus exists or that the gods sent auspices to direct mankind?

We know that Julius Ceasar existed. Does that give validity to his claim of being the son of a god? We know that Cleopatra existed. Should we say that that is evidence that she is truly the daughter of Isis?

You can't claim that the reality of jerusalem gives legitimacy to Christianity unless you are willing to claim the same for every other myth and legend that happens in a real place and contains stories about people that really did exist.

Are you really willing to claim such?

Reread what I wrote. I did not claim Christianity is true because Galilee and Jerusalem existed 2000+ years ago. I claimed the poster's analogical "reasoning" was bogus. The difference between Christianity and Mormonism is that the latter has no credible historical context and can't even get off the ground.

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It was all black and white. Suddenly, you saw a twister on the horizon. You took cover in the house but the twister lifted it right off the foundation. When the house finally landed you opened the front door to find yourself in a world of color....

Are you comparing the Book of Mormon to the Wizard of Oz?

(If you are, then welcome to the 5th column.)

:P

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The difference between Christianity and Mormonism is that the latter has no credible historical context and can't even get off the ground.

First, since Mormonism is Christian, we have all the historical context that other Christian religions do. But that's another argument.

Second, just because you haven't bothered to take a close look at the historical context of the Book of Mormon doesn't mean it isn't there. There's a lot of information out there on that very subject. To say we can't even get off the ground is nowhere near the truth.

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First, since Mormonism is Christian, we have all the historical context that other Christian religions do. But that's another argument.

Yes, it is, cuz I would dispute that claim.

Second, just because you haven't bothered to take a close look at the historical context of the Book of Mormon doesn't mean it isn't there. There's a lot of information out there on that very subject. To say we can't even get off the ground is nowhere near the truth.

Pull the other leg; it has bells on it.

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Reread what I wrote. I did not claim Christianity is true because Galilee and Jerusalem existed 2000+ years ago. I claimed the poster's analogical "reasoning" was bogus. The difference between Christianity and Mormonism is that the latter has no credible historical context and can't even get off the ground.

Actually, you're comparing the BOM vs the Bible, not LDS vs the vast swath of bickering factions known as Christianity.

In any case, the BOM comes off much better, if only because so much of the Bible has been proven to be false, especially in the OT.

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Actually, you're comparing the BOM vs the Bible, not LDS vs the vast swath of bickering factions known as Christianity.

In any case, the BOM comes off much better, if only because so much of the Bible has been proven to be false, especially in the OT.

That's a howler. Don't pretend to know what you are talking about; you might be able to fool some people but I am far too educated on the topic.

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He was only saying what we have said in this forum for years.

To those demanding the BOM record of "others", what foods they ate, etc, we have pointed out that the historical details of the Nephites are found on the Large Plates. The Small Plates were a religious record, not a textbook on history, culture, science, etc. The record keepers were specifically forbidden to fill up the plates with such details. Any historical information are secondary to the main purpose of bringing people to Christ.

The BOM is not a history book, but it is authentic history.

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That's a howler. Don't pretend to know what you are talking about; you might be able to fool some people but I am far too educated on the topic.

I'm sure you're a genius in your own mind.

When you can find some evidence of a global flood, a 6-day creation 6000 years ago, or the origin of all diverse languages starting 4000 years ago at the Tower of Babel, you let me know.

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I'm sure you're a genius in your own mind.

Even so, I tremble before your (in progress) MBA.

When you can find some evidence of a global flood, a 6-day creation 6000 years ago, or the origin of all diverse languages starting 4000 years ago at the Tower of Babel, you let me know.

Even if I were to grant you that the interpretations you listed are correct, they are superfluous to Christianity. By way of contrast, Mormonism requires some of those things to be literally true.

Quit while you are behind.

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Even so, I tremble before your (in progress) MBA.

Even if I were to grant you that the interpretations you listed are correct, they are superfluous to Christianity. By way of contrast, Mormonism requires some of those things to be literally true.

Quit while you are behind.

The internet tough guy routine doesn't impress anyone. Just saying.

Mormonism requires them no more than Christianity (as if there were such an animal as "Christianity"). But the fact remains that they're in the Bible and they're demonstrably false.

Advantage: Book of Mormon.

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The internet tough guy routine doesn't impress anyone. Just saying.

Nor does the liberal Mormon routine.

Mormonism requires them no more than Christianity (as if there were such an animal as "Christianity"). But the fact remains that they're in the Bible and they're demonstrably false.

Advantage: Book of Mormon.

Ether requires the Tower of Babel.

The Book of Abraham requires a global deluge. (See "Egyptus.")

Christianity requires neither of these events.

As I wrote, quit while you are behind.

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Nor does the liberal Mormon routine.

Ether requires the Tower of Babel.

The Book of Abraham requires a global deluge. (See "Egyptus.")

Christianity requires neither of these events.

As I wrote, quit while you are behind.

Liberal Mormonism isn't a routine, it's a viewpoint. I thought you said you were educated?

Ether only requires that such a Tower Existed, which is possible. It never claims that everyone spoke the same language up until the Tower of Babel like the Bible incorrectly does.

The Book of Abraham is a red herring - we're talking about the Bible vs BOM. But I don't recall any mention of the flood therein.

Christianity doesn't exist in the way you are claiming.

Quit pretending to be an expert. It's clear that you aren't.

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Liberal Mormonism isn't a routine, it's a viewpoint. I thought you said you were educated?

It is vapid whether you call it an (online) routine or a viewpoint.

Ether only requires that such a Tower Existed, which is possible. It never claims that everyone spoke the same language up until the Tower of Babel like the Bible incorrectly does.

"Tower Existed?" I guess the rules of capitalization are not stressed in your MBA program.

Genesis 11:1-9

11:1 Now the whole earth had one language and the same words. 2 And as people migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. 3 And they said to one another,

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"Tower Existed?" I guess the rules of capitalization are not stressed in your MBA program.

When your best argument is pointing out an accidental capitalization, it's time to throw in the towel. You have nothing.

Or, if it makes you feel superior, You Have Nothing.

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