Only part of the truth

[Scottie]

Here is the thing, and I will use an example from the past here on this board. How does telling people that JS had a gun in Carthage constitute a bad thing?

When this has been brought up in that past it was to give the idea that JS was jsut a fraud and was not a true martyr. It is a week argument but I see lots of things like this. Little chestnuts from the churches past that are not really bad. But it is spun in a negitve light. When the church does teach it the critics just ignores the references and insist that the church hides its history. And that if it tuaght said history that people would be less likely to join or whate ever. Thus presenting a straw man.

Well, as far as the gun in Carthage, I agree. I've never thought this was a big deal. It seems to be for some people.

And, honestly, I don't really have a good idea of what things should be taught. I just know that many, MANY people are very distraught when they learn the true history. Certainly that must say something, right? That the church is NOT doing a good job of getting the information out there. There is farspread mis-information being taught. When LDS members are taught to put JS on such a high pedestal, he crashes that much harder when they find out he isn't what they had been led to believe all these years.

[zeezrom]

My DW just learned of 3 women in our ward who recently learned about Joseph Smith's polygamy and were very stunned and disturbed. All three of them feel that polygamy was a huge mistake. One of them noted that God had Joseph killed because his practice was in error. Not sure where they got their information. It wasn't from me and it wasn't from sunday school. They expressed an interest in talking about these issues in church.

[MorningStar]

They just learned that he practiced it? Did they not read the Doctrine and Covenants or go to seminary? That was covered when I went to seminary.

[thesometimesaint]

MorningStar:

It is known as hiding in plain sight.

[volgadon]

I tire of this strawman that critics are asking the church to tell EVERYTHING about it's history.

But, logically, if we don't tell all of the good, aren't we leaving out things that might help individuals make up their minds about the church?

[zeezrom]

They just learned that he practiced it? Did they not read the Doctrine and Covenants or go to seminary? That was covered when I went to seminary.

Again, NO they did not just learn he practiced it. They learned HOW he went about practicing it and with whom.

[David T]

My DW just learned of 3 women in our ward who recently learned about Joseph Smith's polygamy and were very stunned and disturbed. All three of them feel that polygamy was a huge mistake. One of them noted that God had Joseph killed because his practice was in error. Not sure where they got their information. It wasn't from me and it wasn't from sunday school. They expressed an interest in talking about these issues in church.

They read D&C 132?

[zeezrom]

They read D&C 132?

I'm sure they read it now from a different POV than before.

[Scottie]

Yeah, don't acknowledge that there is a problem. Just continue to blame to stupid people who don't bother to find out.

[Scottie]

They read D&C 132?

Please show me in D&C 132 where it says anything about polyandry?

[MorningStar]

Again, NO they did not just learn he practiced it. They learned HOW he went about practicing it and with whom.

And what do they think about D&C 135? Do they think it's false scripture? Do they think God killed Abraham because he practiced polygamy?

[zeezrom]

And what do they think about D&C 135? Do they think it's false scripture? Do they think God killed Abraham because he practiced polygamy?

I don't know what they think about it. However, one of the women told DW a few weeks ago that she feels God did not sanction Abraham's practice of polygamy and having concubines. Not sure if any of them think God killed them. Maybe if we discussed this in SS we could find out what they think.

[MorningStar]

I don't know what they think about it. However, one of the women told DW a few weeks ago that she feels God did not sanction Abraham's practice of polygamy and having concubines. Not sure if any of them think God killed them. Maybe if we discussed this in SS we could find out what they think.

But why would an angel appear to Hagar and tell her to go back to the situation?

[zeezrom]

But why would an angel appear to Hagar and tell her to go back to the situation?

No idea. Maybe for the same reason an angel with a flaming sword would appear to Joseph Smith?

If you believe polygamy was a mistake, I guess that means no angels.

[MorningStar]

No idea. Maybe for the same reason an angel with a flaming sword would appear to Joseph Smith?

If you believe polygamy was a mistake, I guess that means no angels.

I would be really interested to know what other scriptures they would consider incorrect. D&C 135 says Joseph Smith sealed his testimony with his blood - not that God wanted him dead because he screwed up. Where did they get their information from?

[zeezrom]

I would be really interested to know what other scriptures they would consider incorrect. D&C 135 says Joseph Smith sealed his testimony with his blood - not that God wanted him dead because he screwed up. Where did they get their information from?

I don't know their story other than what I related to you. I wish I knew more but there is no forum to sit and discuss these things. There is guilt, shame, and fear. These ideas were related to my DW in whispers near the stage of the cultural hall during YWs activities.

[mfbukowski]

No. But I am considering what I should disclose to my bishop. When he asks if I believe in the Restoration, I will say "Yes." Or I could explain to him that I believe it was a movement that Joseph Smith believed in and that it actually, in truth, happened.

&etc....

Definitely tell him all the details including your activities at the trailer park. You must fully disclose.

Also the one about "opposing" the church. Think a little about that one.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Well, as far as the gun in Carthage, I agree. I've never thought this was a big deal. It seems to be for some people.

And, honestly, I don't really have a good idea of what things should be taught. I just know that many, MANY people are very distraught when they learn the true history. Certainly that must say something, right? That the church is NOT doing a good job of getting the information out there. There is farspread mis-information being taught. When LDS members are taught to put JS on such a high pedestal, he crashes that much harder when they find out he isn't what they had been led to believe all these years.

THere in lies the problem. You and I are both in agreement that the gun is no big deal but for some it is. That is the issue that I think is worht looking at. WHy do they think it an issue. Form here we can look at other "issues" and see why they are issues to other people.

What kind of pedestal should JS be placed on or do you think we place him on? Sometimes I think critics think we think he is next to God. I think JS was a man called of God to be a prophet. And I think we can learn a great deal from him. But he was a man that had mistakes.

[zeezrom]

Definitely tell him all the details including your activities at the trailer park. You must fully disclose.

Also the one about "opposing" the church. Think a little about that one.

can you reference the opposing the church one? I don't remember it.

You are a bishop, how would you react to my posts at MD?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Please show me in D&C 132 where it says anything about polyandry?

It is up for debate that JS ever practice polyandry. And no I am not ignorant of what the facts are. We should start a new thread on this just for the heck of it.

What is the defintion of a marriage vs a sealing?

And to the point of one believes in the bible a strong case can be made for God sanctioning polyandry.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I don't know their story other than what I related to you. I wish I knew more but there is no forum to sit and discuss these things. There is guilt, shame, and fear. These ideas were related to my DW in whispers near the stage of the cultural hall during YWs activities.

So in other words you are gossiping. You are spreading a hearsay.

[zeezrom]

So in other words you are gossiping. You are spreading a hearsay.

What I related is truth.

[mfbukowski]

Still able to feel deep down that the Greek who said, "Man is the measure of all things" was not being specific enough. I miss thinking it was me who had the measure of all things and everyone.

I love it!

[Vance]

My DW just learned of 3 women in our ward who recently learned about Joseph Smith's polygamy and were very stunned and disturbed. All three of them feel that polygamy was a huge mistake. One of them noted that God had Joseph killed because his practice was in error. Not sure where they got their information. It wasn't from me and it wasn't from sunday school. They expressed an interest in talking about these issues in church.

Ah yes!

The proverbial "they"/"them"!

No names, no specifics, just assertion.

[zeezrom]

Definitely tell him all the details including your activities at the trailer park. You must fully disclose.

Also the one about "opposing" the church. Think a little about that one.

I did a search on opposing the church at MDB and found nothing. Are you trying to make me look sinister?

After you point me to it, I can do a little thinking about it.