Panel Discussion on Helen Whitney's "The Mormons"

[Daniel Peterson]

Sorry. It's a bit late to call attention to this, I realize, but . . .

There will be a panel discussion today, at Utah Valley University, on the four-hour 2007 Helen Whitney PBS documentary The Mormons that some of you may have seen. It will be chaired by Brian Birch, of the UVU faculty. Helen Whitney will be there, along with Daniel Peterson of BYU, Colleen McDannell of the University of Utah, Charles Randall Paul of the Foundation for Interreligious Diplomacy, David Scott of UVU, and Alex Caldiero of UVU. It will be open to the public, and will occur in the Lakeview Room, on the fourth floor of the UVU library.

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[William Schryver]

Sorry. It's a bit late to call attention to this, I realize, but . . .

There will be a panel discussion today, at Utah Valley University, on the four-hour 2007 Helen Whitney PBS documentary The Mormons that some of you may have seen. It will be chaired by Brian Birch, of the UVU faculty. Helen Whitney will be there, along with Daniel Peterson of BYU, Colleen McDannell of the University of Utah, Charles Randall Paul of the Foundation for Interreligious Diplomacy, David Scott of UVU, and Alex Caldiero of UVU. It will be open to the public, and will occur in the Lakeview Room, on the fourth floor of the UVU library.

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As much as I have been favorably impressed by Ms. Whitney's personable nature, and apparent good intentions, I would very much like to see some hard questions addressed to her in relation to her selection of sources for her documentary. I would like to interrogate her concerning her appreciation of the underlying motivations of people like, for example, Will Bagley and Tal Bachman--both of whom she elevated in significance far beyond their merit.

[cdowis]

The grotesque depiction of the excommunication process, based on the descriptions by avowed enemies of the church. While she says that it was "obvious" that certain individuals were ex-Mormons, it certainly was not the case with Tal Bachman as a previous missionary who was willing to "blow himself up" at the whim of the church leaders. It definitely gave the impression that he was speaking as a faithful member of the church.

Also, is it true that she was pressured to change certain aspects of the documentary to show the church in a more negative light.

[Scott Lloyd]

Sorry. It's a bit late to call attention to this, I realize, but . . .

There will be a panel discussion today, at Utah Valley University, on the four-hour 2007 Helen Whitney PBS documentary The Mormons that some of you may have seen. It will be chaired by Brian Birch, of the UVU faculty. Helen Whitney will be there, along with Daniel Peterson of BYU, Colleen McDannell of the University of Utah, Charles Randall Paul of the Foundation for Interreligious Diplomacy, David Scott of UVU, and Alex Caldiero of UVU. It will be open to the public, and will occur in the Lakeview Room, on the fourth floor of the UVU library.

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Not that I have much hope of making it down there today, but you didn't give a time, Daniel.

I would love to attend in person but probably can't. If anybody could make available a recording, transcription or notes, I would be grateful.

[Scott Lloyd]

Dr. Peterson (who himself was featured in it) has expressed himself before on the documentary's lack of representation from articulate defenders of the faith. I would expect that to come up in this discussion.

And cdowis is right about the fanciful and laughable depiction of the excommunication process. Particularly, the stark room with the hard chairs. Looks like something out of "Judgment at Nuremburg." Whitney has defended it before as a "visual metaphor," but I think a non-initiate viewer would be apt to take it as literal.

[John Larsen]

As much as I have been favorably impressed by Ms. Whitney's personable nature, and apparent good intentions, I would very much like to see some hard questions addressed to her in relation to her selection of sources for her documentary. I would like to interrogate her concerning her appreciation of the underlying motivations of people like, for example, Will Bagley and Tal Bachman--both of whom she elevated in significance far beyond their merit.

"Interrogate" her? Dude, you need to take a breather.

[LifeOnaPlate]

I hope they are recording it in some way. Anyone know?

[MorningStar]

Sounds interesting. I wish I could be there.

[William Schryver]

"Interrogate" her? Dude, you need to take a breather.

And you apparently need to expand your understanding of your own language.

interrogate: 1 : to question formally and systematically

I would very much like to interrogate Ms. Whitney in a public setting concerning some of her decisions in the making of The Mormons.

[John Larsen]

And you apparently need to expand your understanding of your own language.

I would very much like to interrogate Ms. Whitney in a public setting concerning some of her decisions in the making of The Mormons.

And you might do well to learn the difference between connotation and denotation.

[William Schryver]

And you might do well to learn the difference between connotation and denotation.

I understand the difference quite well, and selected my word quite deliberately. That you chose to perceive a meaning different than that intended says more about you than it does it about me.

Perhaps you'd like to subject me to one of your interrogative podcasts?

[John Larsen]

I understand the difference quite well, and selected my word quite deliberately. That you chose to perceive a meaning different than that intended says more about you than it does it about me.

Perhaps you'd like to subject me to one of your interrogative podcasts?

Only if you promise not to be a d***.

[William Schryver]

Only if you promise not to be a d***.

I didn't realize that was a prerequisite.

[smac97]

I understand the difference quite well, and selected my word quite deliberately. That you chose to perceive a meaning different than that intended says more about you than it does it about me.

Perhaps you'd like to subject me to one of your interrogative podcasts?

I've been annoyed with Whitney ever since she made these public comments back in 2007:

A well known scholar, whose name will not be mentioned, sympathetic to the 19th-century Mormons, not to the 20th, made offhand an comment to me that he still didn't trust them modern Mormons, even as they were moving into the mainstream. That move, he felt, was a facade. They were, and these are his words, "potentially dangerous, radioactive, and could ignite," though not in his lifetime. This is a darker version of the imagery of this but the kindling I heard earlier on.

This is a total cheap shot.

The question constantly hear from, in the making of the film and people responding to the film. Do mormons tell us what they really believe?

Another cheap shot. The implication is that we do not.

But nonetheless I just can't tell you the times that I hear this. And in truth, in my own experience talking to so many Mormons, both the ordinary folk and right up to the general authorities. It's the rare experience for me that I'm with a Mormon that will own, if he or she knows, the big, bold ideas of Mormonism.

The problem is that what Mormons consider to be "the big, bold ideas of Mormonism" don't align with what she thinks those ideas are. She brings up items that are, to today's Mormons, not particularly relevant to us, then she faults us for not talking about them enough.

-Smac

[Tsuzuki]

Will this be recorded?

[William Schryver]

I've been annoyed with Whitney ever since she made these public comments back in 2007:

This is a total cheap shot.

Another cheap shot. The implication is that we do not.

The problem is that what Mormons consider to be "the big, bold ideas of Mormonism" don't align with what she thinks those ideas are. She brings up items that are, to today's Mormons, not particularly relevant to us, then she faults us for not talking about them enough.

-Smac

Perhaps you would also like to interrogate Ms. Whitney on some of these issues?

[cdowis]

"

[MorningStar]

I'm dying to ask her about the weird picture depicting Moroni and how she got the impression that dance is so important to us. That was really odd and not even worth mentioning.

[cinepro]

I went to a presentation by Ken Verdoia, and he described the different iterations the documentary went through as different political forces came into play. Honestly, after hearing his account of things, I'm just thankful it was even watchable; it could have been a lot worse.

I'm dying to ask her about the weird picture depicting Moroni and how she got the impression that dance is so important to us. That was really odd and not even worth mentioning.

The "dance" comment was from Teryl Givens, so he would be the one to ask. I thought it was an odd thing to emphasize (and probably wouldn't have included it if I had directed it), but it wasn't her fault he said it.

As for the setting of the "excommunication" segments, I can understand why an actual High Council room wasn't shown. From the perspective of a filmmaker, there could hardly be a less interesting setting:

[jwhitlock]

As for the setting of the "excommunication" segments, I can understand why an actual High Council room wasn't shown. From the perspective of a filmmaker, there could hardly be a less interesting setting:

Why tell the truth when embellishment is so much more interesting?

And, also when it gets more people to watch your (talking about Whitney) PBS special...

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Only if you promise not to be a d***.

Oh snap.

[MorningStar]

I went to a presentation by Ken Verdoia, and he described the different iterations the documentary went through as different political forces came into play. Honestly, after hearing his account of things, I'm just thankful it was even watchable; it could have been a lot worse.

The "dance" comment was from Teryl Givens, so he would be the one to ask. I thought it was an odd thing to emphasize (and probably wouldn't have included it if I had directed it), but it wasn't her fault he said it.

As for the setting of the "excommunication" segments, I can understand why an actual High Council room wasn't shown. From the perspective of a filmmaker, there could hardly be a less interesting setting:

She needs to be a little more thorough in her research instead of taking one person's word for it.

[Hestia]

Only if you promise not to be a d***.

Do not start with personal insults!

[John Larsen]

Do not start with personal insults!

In the words of the Great Forrest Gump, Insult is as Insult does.

[Hestia]

In the words of the Great Forrest Gump, Insult is as Insult does.

And in the words of the Board Guidelines: "Moderator and Administration actions are considered final word on a subject".