marysson Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 hello: a serious question. where in the bom, d&c or pogp does it clearly state that god is a man ?
The Nehor Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 All over the Book of Mormon are the prophecies that God shall come down and atone for the sins of his people and take upon himself flesh and blood. If you're asking about god (note lower-case) then you need to be more specific as to who you are asking about.
Mormon2Christian Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 hello: a serious question. where in the bom, d&c or pogp does it clearly state that god is a man ?A better question is where in the bible does it say God was once a man? Doesn't the bible say He has been God for all eternity and there is no other God? There are many gods but only One Creator God. God bless EVERYONE
marysson Posted January 20, 2009 Author Posted January 20, 2009 i understand about jesus coming to be a man. what i mean is what lds calls heavenly father. where does it say he is a man ( and i assume this means man as we biologically think of it and not some special definition where we might use quotes, as with "man" ( really meaning something different than us but using the word man to show that whatever the heavenly father really is he looks like us when he appears to us ( or at least to js ),.i read in some writings ( history of the church ) langauage about god ( heavenly father ) in man terms but i want to know if the basic scripture, bom, pogp, d&c ( and of course not the bible itself ) that comprise the basic scripture of lds where it actually would teach that god is a man like us and lives on a planet or in a place of his own.
The Nehor Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 i understand about jesus coming to be a man. what i mean is what lds calls heavenly father. where does it say he is a man ( and i assume this means man as we biologically think of it and not some special definition where we might use quotes, as with "man" ( really meaning something different than us but using the word man to show that whatever the heavenly father really is he looks like us when he appears to us ( or at least to js ),.It does not mean as we biologically think of it. He is called in the D&C Man of Holiness. He is an exalted man, a state we know only snippets about. The emphasis is that we are the same kind of creation in a much lesser state.
annewandering Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 i understand about jesus coming to be a man. what i mean is what lds calls heavenly father. where does it say he is a man ( and i assume this means man as we biologically think of it and not some special definition where we might use quotes, as with "man" ( really meaning something different than us but using the word man to show that whatever the heavenly father really is he looks like us when he appears to us ( or at least to js ),.i read in some writings ( history of the church ) langauage about god ( heavenly father ) in man terms but i want to know if the basic scripture, bom, pogp, d&c ( and of course not the bible itself ) that comprise the basic scripture of lds where it actually would teach that god is a man like us and lives on a planet or in a place of his own.And of course the Bible is Basic Scripture to LDS. Just making sure that is clear. God isn't a man like us. There is no scripture that says He is. He ONCE was a man like us but He is a perfect being which we certainly aren't.
robuchan Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 We don't know a lot about it. We don't think others know a lot about it. We don't teach it. We don't emphasize it.
BCSpace Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 hello: a serious question. where in the bom, d&c or pogp does it clearly state that god is a man ?It is clearly taught in the Bible where we see that to see the glory of God, you see a man (Ezekiel 1:26-28) or whenever Jesus Christ is referred to as the "Son of man". We also see it in the fact that we are created in God's image as well as in the fact that Jesus is the only begotten son of the Father.For extraBiblical scripture, I like this one the most in the PoGP.....Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time. Moses 6:57
marysson Posted January 20, 2009 Author Posted January 20, 2009 man as god but in a lessor state. ok. in a way i can see this as sensible. if god is the creator of all things and he created then we would be lessor but not necesarily of the same "stuff"....but maybe we are made of the same "stuff" ( this is really beyond all our knowledge to actually know ). but my quetion, to keep it really simple ( i am asking a serious question and not trying to set up an arguement )....does the modern lds church believe that god is flesh and blood ( a biological being ) who geographically lives someplace in this vase universe ( rather than a creator who is not actually a human like entitiy and is not really very comprehensible as with standard protestant views of god ).
BCSpace Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 We don't know a lot about it. We don't think others know a lot about it. We don't teach it. We don't emphasize it.Yes we do. We teach it in our most basic of manuals for new members and investigators...The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: â??When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospelâ??you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil [died] before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the graveâ? (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 348). This is the way our Heavenly Father became God. Joseph Smith taught: â??It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. â?¦ He was once a man like us; â?¦ God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself didâ? (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345â??46). Gospel Principles Chapter 47; Exaltation
The Dude Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 On the matter of God being of the species Homo sapiens, a modern LDS apostle, Boyd K Packer, published this statement in the official church magazine (Ensign 1984):Since every living thing follows the pattern of its parentage, are we to suppose that God had some other strange pattern in mind for His offspring? Surely we, His children, are not, in the language of science, a different species than He is?
Doctor Steuss Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 hello: a serious question. where in the bom, d&c or pogp does it clearly state that god is a man ?Hi Marysson,I suppose it depends on how literal or figurative one wishes to be. Any references to G-d as our Father would by default be a clear statement to Him being a man (when taken literally). I believe 3 Nephi 13 has quite a few such references, and there's one in D&C (123). I suppose it can be implied by the official FV account in the PoGP, although it doesnâ??t come out and state it. Other than that, all I can think of that clearly states it is not the BoM, D&C, or PoGP, but instead found in Hebrews.
BCSpace Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 man as god but in a lessor state. ok. in a way i can see this as sensible. if god is the creator of all things and he created then we would be lessor but not necesarily of the same "stuff"....Actually, we believe we will become Gods in every way that God is now. For example, Philippians 3:5-6 and Revelation 3:21. However, God the Father will always be our God, just as the Father is also Jesus Christ's God (John 20:17) so in that sense only, yes, we are small 'g' gods.but my quetion, to keep it really simple ( i am asking a serious question and not trying to set up an arguement )....does the modern lds church believe that god is flesh and blood ( a biological being ) who geographically lives someplace in this vase universeYes. His physical body can only be in one place at one time and it takes up a finite amount of space. As for this universe? I'd say it's more likely that He is outside this universe.( rather than a creator who is not actually a human like entitiy and is not really very comprehensible as with standard protestant views of god ).We consider our God be a/the Creator.
robuchan Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Yes we do. We teach it in our most basic of manuals for new members and investigators...Somebody's asleep at the wheel. This will be out of the Gospel Principles manual within five years. The brethren have had ten years to clarify/fix Pres. Hinckley's interview and no one has. This doctrine is all but officially out. 50 years from now you'll be excommunicated for teaching it.
marysson Posted January 20, 2009 Author Posted January 20, 2009 uhmm ! i am asking where in the basic scripture ( again, the bom, d&c and pogp ) where it is stated that god IS a man and lives on his own little planet. why do i keepasking for a reference to these basic scriptiures ?. i do this because when i read lds forums and anti-forums i keep seeing points made about things said or written at one time or another that are held up as some personal idea of a leader or prophet or a speculation when discussing something, etc. and that such disputed or "odd" or older ideas are not canon of the church. i would like to see where current general authority or the basic scriptures are teaching that god ( heavenly father ) is a guy who needs to wear trousers ( if hf was so inclined to do so ...just a wee bit of humour here ).
BCSpace Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Yes we do. We teach it in our most basic of manuals for new members and investigators...Somebody's asleep at the wheel. This will be out of the Gospel Principles manual within five years.Seems to have been in there for 20 or 30 plus years already. In addition, there are some similar statements in other manuals.The brethren have had ten years to clarify/fix Pres. Hinckley's interview and no one has.No need. That interview does not qualify as doctrine. See my siggy below for the official definition of such. In addition, my position has always been that the interview is being taken out of context when being presented in that fashion.This doctrine is all but officially out. 50 years from now you'll be excommunicated for teaching it.There is no evidence of that.
Sentinus Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 We don't know a lot about it. We don't think others know a lot about it. We don't teach it. We don't emphasize it.
Aquilifer Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Cripes, the OP asked a basic question and immediately gets bombarded by slick rhetoric from LDS critics. How 'bout letting a few more Mormons respond before blazing away? Navigate carefully, Marysson. These waters be deep and uncharted, even by veteran Mormons.
Notquitewetyet Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 does the modern lds church believe that god is flesh and blood ( a biological being ) who geographically lives someplace in this vase universe ( rather than a creator who is not actually a human like entitiy and is not really very comprehensible as with standard protestant views of god ).I bolded and underlined the incorrect part. Heavenly Father, as a resurrected being, does not have blood in his veins. That's why mortality is important, because only the shed blood of Jesus Christ can save us. But if Jesus does not have blood like us, we cannot be saved by it.
Notquitewetyet Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 uhmm ! i am asking where in the basic scripture ( again, the bom, d&c and pogp ) where it is stated that god IS a man and lives on his own little planet. why do i keepasking for a reference to these basic scriptiures ?. i do this because when i read lds forums and anti-forums i keep seeing points made about things said or written at one time or another that are held up as some personal idea of a leader or prophet or a speculation when discussing something, etc. and that such disputed or "odd" or older ideas are not canon of the church. i would like to see where current general authority or the basic scriptures are teaching that god ( heavenly father ) is a guy who needs to wear trousers ( if hf was so inclined to do so ...just a wee bit of humour here ).You're right, though this doctrine is hinted at, especially in the Book of Abraham, nowhere is it explicitly stated. That's why it's so important to hold fast to the teachings of Joseph Smith and his legal successors, because nowhere in the scriptures are we given the knowledge that will bring us into Heavenly Father's presence either.
BCSpace Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 uhmm ! i am asking where in the basic scripture ( again, the bom, d&c and pogp ) where it is stated that god IS a manI gave reference in my first post.and lives on his own little planet.Implied scripturally; when we become Gods, we will live on this earth D&C 130:7-9. But not expressly. Some are tempted to think God resides in the "Kolob" star system (Abraham 3), but all we know is that Kolob is the star "nearest" to God. Nearest in what sense? We don't know. Physically? The context could be nearest in time keeping.why do i keepasking for a reference to these basic scriptiures ?. i do this because when i read lds forums and anti-forums i keep seeing points made about things said or written at one time or another that are held up as some personal idea of a leader or prophet or a speculation when discussing something, etc. and that such disputed or "odd" or older ideas are not canon of the church. i would like to see where current general authority or the basic scriptures are teaching that god ( heavenly father ) is a guy who needs to wear trousers ( if hf was so inclined to do so ...just a wee bit of humour here ).See the link in my siggy below. Scripture contains the doctrine but it has to be established (interpreted) by the prophets. Therefore, what is published by the LDS Church is doctrine. Nice to see doctrine expressly in scripture, but that is not always the case.
BCSpace Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 does the modern lds church believe that god is flesh and blood ( a biological being ) who geographically lives someplace in this vase universe ( rather than a creator who is not actually a human like entitiy and is not really very comprehensible as with standard protestant views of god ).I bolded and underlined the incorrect part. Heavenly Father, as a resurrected being, does not have blood in his veins. That's why mortality is important, because only the shed blood of Jesus Christ can save us. But if Jesus does not have blood like us, we cannot be saved by it.That is correct. I missed that in my explaination. God's physical body is quickened by spirit, not blood.
jadams_4242 Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 hello: a serious question. where in the bom, d&c or pogp does it clearly state that god is a man ? Of course hes a man, i saw his picture.
Deborah Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Ether 3:6 And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these words, behold, the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the stones one by one with his finger. And the veil was taken from off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord; and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and blood; and the brother of Jared fell down before the Lord, for he was struck with fear. 7 And the Lord saw that the brother of Jared had fallen to the earth; and the Lord said unto him: Arise, why hast thou fallen? 8 And he saith unto the Lord: I saw the finger of the Lord, and I feared lest he should smite me; for I knew not that the Lord had flesh and blood. 9 And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood; and never has man come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this?Exodus 33: 11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.Acts 7: 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.Where does the Bible show that God is some amorphous being without body, parts or passions?
Tarski Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 It does not mean as we biologically think of it.But he seems to have, in form at least, the same hair, bones, teeth, fingernails, tongue, saliva, legs, spine, and other organic forms we share with our mammal cousins and that we know to be the result of a convoluted, brutal, and animalistic evolutionary process. As soon as the genetic technology allows us to splice language genes into some other species, it won't be long until they will inform us that God looks like them and not us (we will be the ugly animals). LOL
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