Did Brigham Young Teach the Adam-God Theory?

[consiglieri]

On another thread, I was challenged to document the fact that Brigham Young actually taught the Adam-God Theory, meaning that Adam was a resurrected being from another planet who is the natural father of the spirits of all those who come to this earth; that Adam came to the garden to initiate the process of providing physical bodies for his spirit children, and that Adam is the God of this world.

In response to this challenge, I submit the following to get the ball rolling:

Journal of Joseph L. Robinson; Oct. 6th, 1854.

Attended conference, a very interesting conference, for at this meeting President Brigham Young said thus, that Adam and Eve were the names of the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized and that Adam and Eve were the natural father and mother of every spirit that comes to this planet, or that receives tabernacles on this planet, consequently we are brother and sisters, and that Adam was God, our Eternal Father. This as Brother Heber remarked, was letting the cat out of the bag, and it came to pass, I believed every word, for I remembered saying to the Brethren at a meeting of High Priests in Nauvoo, while I was speaking to them under the influence of the Spirit, I remarked thus, that our Father Adam had many wives, and that Eve was only one of them, and that she was our mother, and that she was the mother of the inhabitants of this earth, and I believe that also, but behold ye there were some that did not believe these sayings of the Prophet Brigham, even our Beloved Brother Orson Pratt told me he did not believe it. He said he could prove by the scriptures it was not correct. I felt very sorry to hear Professor Orson Pratt say that. I feared least he should apostatize, but I prayed for him that he might endure unto the end, for I knew verily it was possible that great men might fall.

Any comments?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Joseph Antley]

I don't know if he did or not. It doesn't make sense that he would have, and after reading the actual statement, it doesn't make sense to me that he didn't. It's since fallen into the "I don't care" category for me.

[Jason]

I'll note that the diary entry is not a direct quote of Brigham Young's words, and there is therfore a good possibility that brother Robinson misheard or misunderstood what was said.

If BY had been teaching that one of God's names is Adam it is easy to see how brother Robinson could have misunderstood this.

It's also entirely possible that Orson Pratt's objection is to bro. Robinson's mischaracterization of BY's teaching, not to what BY actually said.

[consiglieri]

I'll note that the diary entry is not a direct quote of Brigham Young's words, and there is therfore a good possibility that brother Robinson misheard or misunderstood what was said.

If BY had been teaching that one of God's names is Adam it is easy to see how brother Robinson could have misunderstood this.

It's also entirely possible that Orson Pratt's objection is to bro. Robinson's mischaracterization of BY's teaching, not to what BY actually said.

Orson Pratt must have missed the conference session to watch the BYU football game.

Perhaps you find it coincidental that John Pulsipher similarly misunderstood Brigham Young?

John Pulsipher Papers, Mss 1041, p. 35-37; BYU Special Collections; 8 October 1854.. Spelling as in original.

The first people of the Earth was no more made of the dust than you are--I would not make out that Moses lied, by no means. But we are made of dust as much as Adam was. So are our cattle. They are formed or created from the Elements all of which are necessary to produce animal or vegetable life-- as the dust of the earth will produce grass & cattle will eat grass & increase Evry person must have a father & mother or they could not be. (p.37) So we had a grandfather & great-great-great-great-great grandfather So far back there is no beginning-- They always Existed on some world--& when this work was made - our God who is Adam came & commenced the peopling of it- Tho he is God & had lived & died & been reserected on some other plannet- & obtained his exaltation & begat the Spirits of children enough people this world he came down & brot some of the animal & vegetable productions of some other world so that they might grow & increase here - He by eating the mortal fruits of the Earth, it caused & produced mortal children or commenced the increase of men on the Earth which is the bodies for the Spirits to live in

There never was a time when Worlds were not created-- The work of creation was always in Progress--

An Adam & Eve is necesary for evry world The oldest Son, if faithful, is the Saviour of the family--There are Lords many & Gods many But the God that we have to account to, is the father of our Spirits--Adam. All the inhabitance of the Earth are made of one flesh- whither they are black-white-blue or streaked.

At some point, I expect this will become redundant.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Jason]

Orson Pratt must have missed the conference session to watch the BYU football game.

The moral of the story: find a better source to support your case.

I suggest the Journal of Discourses itself.

[consiglieri]

The moral of the story: find a better source to support your case.

I suggest the Journal of Discourses itself.

You are free to cite anything you wish.

I am doing quite well on my own.

Thanks!

--Consiglieri

[Mudcat]

My opinion doesn't count for much in these arena's that seem explicitly related to LDS "in-house" issues like BY and Adam-God.

But I think he did.

*Mudcat scurries to the couch and grabs his popcorn to watch his favorite game show "Sweep It Under the Rug" *

[lukas_s]

Yes, he did. I think the sheer number of sources, independent personal journals, and the amount of division during that period in the Church clearly shows that BY wasn't just teaching the same doctrine of God as Joseph Smith.

His sermons are pretty clear and easy to understand, there's no reason this Adam-God teaching of his wasn't the same.

[Sanpitch]

In case no one has mentioned this:

Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spokenâ??He is our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later ... the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pp.50-51

[consiglieri]

In case no one has mentioned this:

Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spokenâ??He is our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later ... the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pp.50-51

Thanks for the assist, Sanpitch!

That one is the starting point for all the other statements by Brigham Young about "Adam-God."

1852, if I recall correctly.

I hope it is beginning to be demonstrated how consistent Brigham Young's teachings were in this regard.

I will raise your JOD quote with this from the journal of some guy named Wilford Woodruff:

Journal of Wilford Woodruff; Ms/f/115, CHO; September 17, 1854.

President Young preached this afternoon & spoke upon the Law of Consecration & had an interesting conversation in our Prayer Circle; the subject of Elder Orson Pratt publishing the Seer & the doctrine it contained was brought up in conversation. President Young said he ought not to have published the marriage ceremony, it was sacred & one of the last ceremonies attended to in the endowments & ought not to have been given to the world. Brother Pratt said that he thought it was no harm as the plurality of wives & its doctrines was to be published to the world. He said he should not have done it---if he had thought there had been the least harm in it. President Young said he was satisfied that he intended no wrong in it. He said that the doctrine taught in the Seer that God had arrived at that state whereby he could not advance any further in knowledge, power & glory was a false doctrine & not true. That there never will be a time to all eternity when all the Gods of eternity will cease advancing in power, knowledge, experience & glory, for if this was the case, eternity would cease to be & the glory of God would come to an end, but all of the celestial beings will continue to advance in knowledge & power, worlds without end. Joseph would always be ahead of us, we should never catch up with him in all eternity nor he with his leaders. Brother Pratt also thought that Adam was made of the dust of the earth. Could not believe that Adam was our God or the Father of Jesus Christ. President Young said that He came from another world & made this. Brought Eve with him, partook of the fruits of the earth, begat children & they were earthly & had mortal bodies & if we were faithful, we should become Gods as He was. He told Brother Pratt to lay aside his philosophical reasoning & get revelation from God to govern him & enlighten his mind more & it would be a great blessing to him to lay aside his books & go into the canyons as some of the rest of us was doing & it would be better for him. He said his philosophy injured him in a measure many good things was said by President Young that we should grow up in revelation so that principle would govern every act of our lives. He had never found any difficulty in leading this people since Joseph's death.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[erichard]

On another thread, I was challenged to document the fact that Brigham Young actually taught the Adam-God Theory, meaning that Adam was a resurrected being from another planet who is the natural father of the spirits of all those who come to this earth; that Adam came to the garden to initiate the process of providing physical bodies for his spirit children, and that Adam is the God of this world.

...

--Consiglieri

Hi,

Here is my response to such a question some time ago.

It is a post with links to A/G resources on the web.

Here are quotes from the October 8, 1854 talk of President Young:

â?¦ Moses said Adam was made of the dust of the ground, but he did not say of what ground. I say he was not made of the dust of the ground of this earth, but he was made of the dust of the earth were he lived, where he honored his calling, believing in his Savior, or Elder Brother, and by his faithfulness, was redeemed, and got a glorious resurrection.

â?¦ I tell you more, Adam is the Father of our spirits. He lived upon an earth; he did abide his creation, and did honor his calling and priesthood, and obeyed his master or Lord, and probably many of his wives did the same, and they lived, and died upon an earth, and then were resurrected again to immortality and eternal life.

â?¦I tell you, when you see your Father in the heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bears your spirit, you will see mother Eve. And when you see yourselves there, you have gained your exaltation; you have honored your calling here on the earth; your body has returned to its mother earth; and somebody has broken the chains of death that bound you, and given you a resurrection.

â?¦ When you meet your Father in Heaven, you will know him, and realize that you have lived with him, and rested in his bosom for ages gone passed, and he will hail you as his sons and daughters, and embrace you, and you will embrace him, and, "Hallelujah, thank God, I have come to Father again, I have got back home," will resound through the heavens.

Can you read this and not feel exhilaration?

Richard

[consiglieri]

Before I have to split, I thought I would drop this into the vat to see how it mixes:

Journal of Samual W. Richards, Vol. 2:215; March 25, 1855.

B. Young spoke to the meeting in a very interesting manner. . . . Adam and Eve were made of the dust of the Earth from which they came, they brought their bodies with them. They had lived, died and been resurrected before they came here and they came with immortal bodies, and had to partake of the fruits of this Earth in order to bring forth mortal bodies, or natural bodies, that their seed might be of the dust of this Earth as they were of the dust of the earth from which they came. It was difficult to teach mankind the way of life. The Lord had to give but little at a time as much could not be received, and it is our duty to use that little so as to profit by it and be prepared for more when God should be willing to impart it to us.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[sethpayne]

Before I have to split, I thought I would drop this into the vat to see how it mixes:

Journal of Samual W. Richards, Vol. 2:215; March 25, 1855.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Consig: you are well-read on this subject. I'm impressed. Have you read "Conflict in the Quorum"? Its been a while, but I recall that this doctrine was a point of conflict between Pratt and Young.

[cksalmon]

Any comments?

My comment: Best to play slow and tight with our respective sources (rather than fast and loose), and let the chips fall where they may. Which you do, Consig.

Best.

cks

[BCSpace]

Any comments?

Don't like second and third hand reports but that's pretty much all you've got to work with. My comment? Adam Sr. Adam Jr. handles it quite nicely. Your inability to put your Adam - God hypothesis into context with what other doctrines BY believed renders it ex nihilo.

[LDSMusic483]

Don't like second and third hand reports but that's pretty much all you've got to work with. My comment? Adam Sr. Adam Jr. handles it quite nicely. Your inability to put your Adam - God hypothesis into context with what other doctrines BY believed renders it ex nihilo.

The issue with the Adam Sr/Adam Jr theory is that it isn't consistent with BY's teachings. That and you have 0 other authorities aside from Watson who even come close to subscribing to this theory. If that was what BY meant all along, I doubt Orson Pratt would have taken issue, because it isn't inflammatory in that sense. JFS I doubt would have called it a false doctrine, same with BRM. And the only authority on it is Watson who came up with that theory. You'd think someone else might have come up with that idea long before him if it was true and elaborated on it much ooner than he did, but that is not the case. No, the evidence is overwhelmingly stated to show that BY believed Adam, the same Adam who was Michael (which if memory serves me right Watson didn't claim Michael was God the Father) is our God. Whether or not I agree with that theory or some of the intracacies that have been assumed upon BY's teachings is a different story, but I don't believe it possible that BY meant something so completely different than what he said. I don't believe he would have been that obscure in his teachings to cause that much confusion and dissension, especially in the Quorum of the Twelve. It's also apparent that individuals did not get that reasoning when they heard BY teach AGT, so it can't be assumed that he normally spake as thus.

[consiglieri]

My opinion doesn't count for much in these arena's that seem explicitly related to LDS "in-house" issues like BY and Adam-God.

But I think he did.

*Mudcat scurries to the couch and grabs his popcorn to watch his favorite game show "Sweep It Under the Rug" *

Actually, I think your opinion counts for a great deal, because you are able to look in on the discussion from an outside and objective vantage point, unencumbered with a predisposition to believe one way or the other.

Many, many years ago, I used to play the game of "Sweet It Under the Rug." Initially, I was unaware that I was even playing that game. Then, after more study and research, I continued to play it while being aware that I was playing it.

Finally, I decided it made no sense to play it anymore if my goal was the truth.

Truth will cut its own way--Joseph Smith.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[consiglieri]

Don't like second and third hand reports but that's pretty much all you've got to work with. My comment? Adam Sr. Adam Jr. handles it quite nicely. Your inability to put your Adam - God hypothesis into context with what other doctrines BY believed renders it ex nihilo.

I am not aware of using any third hand reports so far, but if you would like to play with some first hand reports, I am happy to oblige!

Journal of Discourses, 5:331-332; President Brigham Young in the Bowery, Great Salt Lake; Wednesday afternoon, October 7, 1857.

Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, 'I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;' and after awhile you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, 'Here; you have been faithful, good boys' I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass.' Then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam.

Journal of Discourses, 7:285-290; Brigham Young, delivered in Salt Lake Tabernacle; October 9, 1859.

Here let me state to all philosophers of every class upon the earth, when you tell me that father Adam was made as we make adobes from the earth, you tell me what I deem an idle tale. When you tell me that the beasts of the field were produced in that manner, you are speaking idle words devoid of meaning. There is no such thing in all the eternities where the Gods dwell. Mankind are here because they are the offspring of parents who were first brought here from another planet, and power was given them to propagate their species, and they were commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. . . . Adam and Eve are the parents of all pertaining to the flesh, and I would not say that they are not also the parents of our spirits.

Journal History, p. 131; President Brigham Young speaking at the School of the Prophets; December 11, 1869. See also Journal of Wilford Woodruff,.

Some may think what I have said concerning Adam strange, but the period will come when the people will be willing to adopt Joseph Smith as their prophet, Seer, and Revelator and God! but not the Father of their spirits, for that was our Father Adam.

Deseret News, Vol. 22, No. 308; Brigham Young; discourse delivered in the New Tabernacle, Salt Lake City; Sunday Afternoon, June 8th, 1873.

How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me--namely that Adam is our father and God--I do not know, I do not inquire, I care nothing about it. Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him, and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first woman upon the earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth.

* * *

We say that Father Adam came here and helped to make the earth. Who is he? He is Michael, a great prince, and it was said to him by Eloheim, : Go ye and make an earth." What is the great mystery about it? He came and formed the earth. . . . Adam found it in a state of chaos, unorganized and incomplete. . . . Adam came here and got it up in a shape that would suit him to commence business. Father Adam came here, and then they brought his wife. "Well," says one, "Why was Adam called Adam?" He was the first man on the earth, and its framer and maker. He with the help of his brethren, brought it into existence. Then he said,"I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state, I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come here and take tabernacles of flesh, that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle or a dwelling place as mine has, and where is the mystery?

Journal of L. John Nuttall; BYU Special Collections; Pres. Brigham Young; delivered in St. George; Wed., Feb. 7, 1877. Was the first draft of the Lecture at the Veil. Brother L. John Nuttall was the private secretary to President Brigham Young until his (Brigham's) death in 1877. He then became the private secretary to President John Taylor (1879-1887) and again to President Wilford Woodruff (1887-1892).

In the creation the Gods entered into an agreement about forming this earth. & putting Michael or Adam upon it. these things of which I have been speaking are what are termed the mysteries of godliness but they will enable you to understand the expression of Jesus made while in Jerusalem. This is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. We were once acquainited [acquainted] with the Gods & lived with them but we had the privilige of taking upon us flesh that the spirit might have a house to dwell in. we did so and forgot all and came into the world not recollecting anything of which we had previously learned. We have heard a great deal about Adam and Eve. how they were formed &c some think he was made like an adobie and the Lord breathed into him the breath of life. for we read "from dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return" Well he was made of the dust of the earth but not of this earth. he was made just the same way you and I are made but on another earth. Adam was an immortal being when he came. on this earth he had lived on an earth similar to ours he had received the Priesthood and the Keys thereof. and had been faithful in all things and gained his resurrection and his exaltation and was crowned with glory immortality and eternal lives and was numbered with the Gods for such he became through his faithfulness. and had begotten all the spirit that was to come to this earth. and Eve our common Mother who is the mother of all living bore those spirits in the celestial world. and when this earth was organized by Elohim. Jehovah & Michael who is Adam our common Father. Adam & Eve had the privilege to continue the work of Progression. consequently came to this earth and commenced the great work of forming tabernacles for those spirits to dwell in. and when Adam and those that assisted him had completed this Kingdom our earth he came to it. and slept and forgot all and became like an Infant child. it is said by Moses the historian that the Lord caused a deep sleep to come upon Adam and took from his side a rib and formed the woman that Adam called Eve-this should be interpreted that the Man Adam like all other Men had the seed within him to propagate his species. but not the Woman. she conceives the seed but she does not produce it. consequently she was taken from the side or bowels of her father. this explains the mystery of Moses's dark sayings in regard to Adam and Eve. Adam & Eve when they were placed on this earth were immortal beings with flesh. bones and sinews. but upon partaking of the fruits of the earth while in the garden and cultivating the ground their bodies became changed from immortal to mortal beings with the blood coursing through their veins as the action of life. Adam was not under transgression until after he partook of the forbidden fruit that was nesesary that they might be together that man might be. the woman was found in transgression not the Man- Now in the law of Sacrifice we have the promise of a Savior and man had the privilege and showed forth his obedience by offering of the first fruits of the earth and the firstlings of the flocks- this as a showing that Jesus would come and shed his blood

[Four lines without any writing on them.]

Father Adam's oldest son (Jesus the Saviour) who is the heir of the family is Father Adams first begotten in the spirit World. who according to the flesh is the only begotten as it is written. (In his divinity he having gone back into the spirit World. and come in the spirit [glory] to Mary and she conceived for when Adam and Eve got through with their Work in this earth. they did not lay their bodies down in the dust, but returned to the spirit World from whence they came.

I felt myself much blessed in being permitted to associate with such men and hear such instructions as they savored of life to me-

I wish to reiterate that I would not be engaging in this exercise but for the fact that I was challenged to do so on another thread.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

I think the key to understanding what BY taught is understanding what those closest to him thought he was teaching. I give you Eliza R. Snow, plural wife of Joseph Smith and then of Brigham Young, the "high priestess of the Lord:"

The sun had set, and twilight's shady mood

Spread a brown halo--ting'd the solitude

As days last glimmer flitted down the west;

Life's stirring scenes demurely sank to rest--

Soft silence lent its contemplative charm,

And all conspir'd the mental pulse to warm--

From world to world, imagination wander'd,

While thought, the present, past, and future ponder'd.

As I was musing the desire intense

That some kind guardian angel might dispense

Instruction; lo! a seraph-form appeared--

His look---his voice my anxious spirit cheer'd.

It was the Priesthood-- he who holds the key

T' unlock the portals of Eternity;

And with o'erflowing heart, I took my seat,

An enter'd student at th' Instructors feet.

"What would'st thou me?" The seraph gently said:

"Tell me, and wherefore hast thou sought my aid?"

I then replied: Long, long I've wish'd to know

What is the cause of suff'ring here below--

What the result of human life will be--

Its ultimatum in Eternity.

With deep, attentive mind-- with list'ning ear,

I watch'd and waited ev'ry word to hear;

As thus he said; 'Tis not for you to pry

Into the secrets of the worlds on high--

To seek to know the first, the moving Cause,

Councils, decrees, organizations, laws--

Form'd by the Gods, pertaining to this earth,

Ere your great Father from their courts came forth,

The routine of his ancestors to tread--

Of this new world, to stand the royal head.

The more immediate cause of all the woe

And degradation in your world below,

Is disobedience: Sorrow, toil and pain,

With their associates, follow in its train.

This life's an ordeal, and design'd to prove

Fraternal kindness and parental love.

Earth is your Father's workshop. What is done--

All that's attain'd, and what achievements won,

Is for the Parents: All things are their own--

The children now hold nothing but by loan.

Whatever some may claim in proud pretense;

No one has yet obtain'd inheritance;

E'en Abraham has no possession gain'd

Of what by promise he thro' faith obtained:

And all that greedy hands accumulate,

Is yet the Father's, not the child's estate.

Then shame, O shame, on all the strife you see

Here in the cradle of life's nursery--

The green-ey'd jealousies--the frosty hate

Which carnal, avaricious thoughts create!

How vain that phantom of mortality,

The mimic-form of human dignity!

'Tis soon enough for infant lips to talk

Of pow'r and greatness, when they've strength to walk--

'Tis soon enough for children to be great,

When they can boast a self-possess'd estate.

It will not matter whatsoe'er is gained,

Or what on earth may seem to be obtained;

But 'tis important that each one prepare

To be with Christ, a joint, an equal heir:

Faith, and obedience, and integrity,

Will the grand test of future heirship, be.

If true and faithful to the Father's will,

It matters not what station here you fill;

As you prepare yourself on earth, will be

Your place, your portion in eternity.

As disobedience fill'd the world with pain,

Obedience will restore it back again.

The base perversions of my pow'r produce

All the strong engines satan has in use;

And qualify the sons of men to dwell

With his dark majesty, the prince of hell.

All that obey the pow'rs of darkness go

With those they follow-- to the world below,

Then list to me--my precepts all obey--

The Gods have sent me in this latter-day,

Fully commissioned upward all to lead,

Who will my councils and instructions heed-

Who seek in ev'ry circumstance and place,

To benefit and bless the human race--

Who seek in their Father's interests to enhance--

His glorious cause upon the earth advance--

Whether below, they much or little claim,

If they exalt and magnify his name;

And in his service labor faithfully,

They'll have a fullness in his legacy.

Each faithful saint is an acknowledg'd heir,

And as his diligence, will be his share,

When god a patrimony shall bestow

Upon his sons and daughters here below.

Adam, your God, like you on earth, has been

Subject to sorrow in a world of sin:

Through long gradation he arose to be

Cloth'd with the Godhead's might and majesty.

And what to him in his probative sphere,

Whether a Bishop, Deacon, Priest, or Seer?

Whate'er his offices and callings were,

He magnified them with assiduous care:

By his obedience he obtain'd the place

Of God and Father of this human race.

Obedience will the same bright garland weave,

As it has done for your great Mother, Eve,

For all her daughters on the earth, who will

All my requirements sacredly fulfill.

And what to Eve, though in her mortal life,

She'd been the first, the tenth, or fiftieth wife?

Whether by fools, consider'd small, or great?

'Twas all the same with her--she prov'd her worth--

She's now the Goddess and the Queen of Earth.

Life's ultimatum, unto those those that live

As saints of God, and all my pow'rs receive;

Is still the onward, upward course to tread--

To stand as Adam and as Eve, the head

Of an inheritance, a new-form'd earth,

And to their spirit-race, give mortal birth--

Give them experience in a world like this;

Then lead them forth to everlasting bliss,

Crown'd with salvation and eternal joy

Where full perfection dwells, without alloy.

Thus said the Seraph.--Sacred in my heart

I cherish all his precious words impart;

And humbly pray, I ever may, as now,

With holy def'rence in his presence bow.

The field of thought he open'd to my view,

My wonder rous'd--my admiration too:

I marvel'd at the silly childishness

Of saints, the heirs of everlasting bliss,

The candidates for Godheads and for worlds,

As onward time, eternities unfurls.

I felt my littleness, and thought, henceforth

I'll be myself, the humblest saint on earth;

And all that God shall to my care assign,

I'll recognize and use as His, not mine.

Wherever he appoints to me a place,

That will I seek, with diligence, to grace,

And for my Parents, whatso'er my lot,

To work with all my might, and murmer not,

I'll seek their interest, till they send or come,

And as a faithful daughter take me home.

As thus I mus'd, the lovely queen of night,

'Neath heav'n's blue canopy, diffus'd her light:

Still brighter beams o'er earth's horizon play--

A cheering prelude to approaching day,

When truth's full glory will o'erspread the skies,

And the bright "Sun of Righteousness" arise.

[Jason]

In case no one has mentioned this:

Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spokenâ??He is our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later ... the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pp.50-51

I believe this particular passage is a misquote, as Elden Watson outlines in his paper. Right at the dash, in fact, is where missing material would let this quote support the "Adam is also a name of God the Father" theory.

Your other quotes are also nicely explained by "Adam is also a name of God the Father".

[sunstoned]

I believe this particular passage is a misquote, as Elden Watson outlines in his paper. Right at the dash, in fact, is where missing material would let this quote support the "Adam is also a name of God the Father" theory.

Your other quotes are also nicely explained by "Adam is also a name of God the Father".

Hey Jason, read all of the quoted material in the above posts. The evidence is overwhelming in what BY was teaching. Let it go man.

[Mudcat]

Actually, I think your opinion counts for a great deal, because you are able to look in on the discussion from an outside and objective vantage point, unencumbered with a predisposition to believe one way or the other.

Many, many years ago, I used to play the game of "Sweet It Under the Rug." Initially, I was unaware that I was even playing that game. Then, after more study and research, I continued to play it while being aware that I was playing it.

Finally, I decided it made no sense to play it anymore if my goal was the truth.

Truth will cut its own way--Joseph Smith.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Well, I wish you luck on this thread. I have talked about this with my Father-in-law a couple of times.

His typical response has been that BY was misquoted and that it can't be correct.

If BY has been misquoted every single time in regards to that one subject, how can anyone believe anything written about him.

I don't see any way round the fact that Brigham promulgated an Adam-God theory(if not doctrine).

From this and possibly other statements of his I haven't seen much in the way of serious conversation between LDS about what he was saying.

As a whole, the concept has a lot of percieved fallacies, you just don't see many people taking the time to talk about it.

Probably the biggest doctrine that has come from the AGT is sadly, "When is a prophet speaking as a prophet."

edit add - specifically, it appears that dealing with the hard sayings of an LDS prophet has created a doctrinal vacuum that sucks up aberration.

I have seen a thread or two in the past relating to what seems to be an ongoing absence of new revelation. You don't see much in the way of "Thus saith the Lord" when saying something new these days.

This is off topic speculation, but if the CoJCoLDS is true, my speculation for the lack of such new revelation is that the general membership couldn't digest it. Though as I have studied things so far, LDS seem to believe there will be more forth coming revelation. If God must wait on his people to be ready to receive it, its a good thing he is long suffering.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

[tithulta]

There appear to be too many sources for this to be the result of one misquote. Beyond that, you have other sources throughout church history confirming the controversy. It is clear that false doctrine was taught early in church history by Brigham Young. Brigham Young was speaking as a fallible man. Was he ever a prophet? I doubt it. This was not the first instance in church history where a prophet was called out for teaching false doctrine. You can read the Nauvoo Expositor for that.

The church was finding its way, at this point. A lot of new ideas had to go through a "natural selection," if you will. Many ideas were thrown at the wall, so to speak, and only some of them stuck. This is typical of every religion. All religions experience growing pains and differences of opinion in the beginning. Just look how many versions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam there are. To this day, all of these religions continue to evolve. There are even different sects of Mormonism.

The Correlation Committee was created to prevent problems such as the one Brigham Young created. Of course, the cat is already out of the bag. Clearly, Brigham Young taught the Adam-God doctrine, and, clearly, it is false.

You can deny this all you want, but the words are right here in this thread. The problem with invalidating the evidence here, is that you are invalidating the evidence that supports your claims, as well. You cannot have it both ways unless you are determined to be in denial.

The implications of this one issue are more than problematic for LDS. It only gets worse from here.

[Anijen]

Hi Consig,

I think BY taught it. I for one have a hard time digesting many things BY said and taught. I hope to be able to place many of his quotes into the his own opinion box and not church doctrine. I think it would be taught more (and it isn't at all) if it was official. I mean the only place I hear about this is here or other web sites. Its never brought up in Priesthood (yes, I go every Sunday). I would like to ask him about his running through with a spear or Blacks and the Priesthood when JS didn't have a problem with it. BY just seems out there in some areas and I have to just file it away in my puny brain as it is only opinion and not doctrine. If I am wrong then I am wrong and the atonement will make up for my error.

Anijen ~who hopes BY will not be too upset with him.

[Lachoneus]

For some reason, rather than giving us a transcript of Brigham Young's 8 October 1854 conference discourse, we are asked in the OP and in Post #4 to accept the journal entries of two members of the audience as accurate representations of what Brigham Young taught in this discourse. As any attorney should know, this is not the â??best evidenceâ? one should present to establish what a speaker thought and taught and is certainly not the evidence one would normally present to begin a serious discussion. Nevertheless, these quotes can be instructive.

Let us first look at the journal entry of Joseph Robinson.

Attended conference, a very interesting conference, for at this meeting President Brigham Young said thus, that Adam and Eve were the names of the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized and that Adam and Eve were the natural father and mother of every spirit that comes to this planet, or that receives tabernacles on this planet, consequently we are brother and sisters, and that Adam was God, our Eternal Father. This as Brother Heber remarked, was letting the cat out of the bag, and it came to pass, I believed every word, for I remembered saying to the Brethren at a meeting of High Priests in Nauvoo, while I was speaking to them under the influence of the Spirit, I remarked thus, that our Father Adam had many wives, and that Eve was only one of them, and that she was our mother, and that she was the mother of the inhabitants of this earth, and I believe that also, but behold ye there were some that did not believe these sayings of the Prophet Brigham, even our Beloved Brother Orson Pratt told me he did not believe it. He said he could prove by the scriptures it was not correct. I felt very sorry to hear Professor Orson Pratt say that. I feared least he should apostatize, but I prayed for him that he might endure unto the end, for I knew verily it was possible that great men might fall.

There are a number of interesting facets to this paragraph, but for the purposes of this thread I will mention only the three I have underlined.

First, as the very first evidence presented in support of the allegation that Brigham Young taught an Adam-God Theory as outlined in the OP rather than as suggested by Elden Watsonâ??s concept of Two Adams, we are given a quote which teaches as its very first point that â??Adam and Eve were . . . names,â? not unique persons. Further, we are told that these names have been given to â??the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized.â? In other words, there are myriads of beings throughout the vastness of time and space who are called by the names Adam and Eve. These names are not unique to one particular couple.

Now, let us ask ourselves, which of the two interpretations of Brigham Youngâ??s teachings concerning Adam under consideration teaches that there exist more than one person named Adam? Indeed, which interpretation is constantly ridiculed for maintaining such a ridiculous concept? As we can see in the OP, no such concept is contained in the outline of Brigham Youngâ??s teachings given there. Nevertheless, this is the very first thing we learn from the initial quote provided in support of that outline.

Second, we further learn from this quote that â??Adam and Eve were the natural father and mother of every spirit that comes to this planet.â? Now, having just learned that â??Adam and Eveâ? are names rather than unique individuals and that these names have been given to vast numbers of beings, rather than jumping to the unjustified conclusion that these names can refer only to Michael and his wife, we ought to ask ourselves who this particular Adam and Eve might be. Are they Michael and his wife, or are they some other couple also known as Adam and Eve?

As shown in this quote, Brigham Young taught that these names always belong to â??the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized.â? We are, therefore, justified in assuming that this teaching applies to our own earth. So who were the â??first man and womanâ? of this earth? Of course, it is natural to reply that this obviously refers to Michael and his wife. But are they actually the â??first man and woman" of this earth? As anyone who has actually read Brigham Young's discourse knows, that is not what Brigham Young taught. Certainly Michael and his wife were the first mortal man and woman to be placed upon this earth, but that does not make them the first man and woman of this earth. For example, in a discourse he gave on 8 February 1857 Brigham Young explained,

Thus you may continue and trace the human family back to Adam and Eve, and ask, â??are we of the same species with Adam and Eve?â? Yes, every person acknowledges this; this comes within the scope of our understanding.

But when we arrive at that point, a vail is dropt, and our knowledge is cut off. Were it not so, you could trace back your history to the Father of our spirits in the eternal world. He is a being of the same species as ourselves; He lives as we do, except the difference that we are earthly, and He is heavenly. He has been earthly, and is of precisely the same species of being that we are.

Brigham Young, 6 Deseret News (#50) 396-397 (18 February 1857)

Here Brigham Young first teaches that we are obviously of the same species as Adam and Eve, referring to Michael and his wife. But then he teaches that if we could continue to trace our history back past Michael to â??the Father of our spiritsâ? we would see that He also is a Being of our same species. He also has been earthly, but is now heavenly. Here, then, is our true â??first father,â? the Being who is the Father of our spirits. Thus we learn both that Michael is not the father of our spirits and that there is a Being who became our Father before Michael did. This other Being is our first father and is, therefore, also an Adam.

Third, Brigham Young says that â??Adam was God, our Eternal Father.â? Is he here referring to Michael, or to some other Adam? From what we have seen in the first point, there are many beings called Adam. From the second point, we learned that the Father of our spirits, our Eternal Father, is someone other than Michael. Therefore, as a third point, Brigham Young shows here that it is proper to call this other Being by the name Adam.

Now, letâ??s look briefly at the John Pulsipher journal entry concerning this discourse. Because the text given earlier in this thread omits at least one important paragraph I have set out a more complete text here and numbered the paragraphs fro ease of reference.

{3} God is the father of all the spirits of all the people of this world. He is the father of the bodies also of the first inhabitants of the earth, also the father of the body of Jesus Christ.

{4} The first people of the earth were no more made of the dust than we are. I would not make out that Moses lied, by no means, but we are made of dust as much as Adam was; so are our cattle. They are formed or created from the elements, all of which are necessary to produce animal or vegetable life; as the dust of the earth will produce grass, and cattle will eat grass and increase.

{5} Every person must have a father and a mother or they could not be. So we had a grandfather or we would have had no father, and our grandfather has a father and [a] grandfather and [a] great-great-great-great-great-grandfather so far back there is no beginning. They always existed on some world and when this world was made our god, who is Adam, came and commenced the peopleing of it. Though he is God, and has lived and died and been resurrected on some other planet, and obtained this exaltation and begat the spirits of children enough [to] people this world, he came down and brought some of the animal and vegetable productions of some other world so that they might grow and increase here. He, by eating the mortal [physical?] fruits of the earth, produced mortal [physical?] children, or commenced the increase of men on the earth, which are the bodies for the spirits to live in.

{6} There never was a time when worlds were not created. The work of creation was always in progress.

{7} An Adam and Eve are necessary for every world. The oldest Son, if faithful, is the Savior of the family. There are Lords many and Gods many, but the God that we have to account to, is the father of our spirits: Adam. All the inhabitants of the earth are made of one flesh, whether they are black, white, blue, or streaked.

Brigham Young, 2 BYA 15-16 (John Pulsipher Transcript) (8 October 1854)

Notice that in paragraph 3 Brigham Young explains that â??Godâ? is both the father of our spirits and of the bodies of the first inhabitants of this earth. In paragraph 4 we see that this reference to the first inhabitants of this earth includes Adam or Michael (and his wife, Eve). Thus, again, we see that Michael is not the father of our spirits, but that his Father is the father of our spirits. Later, in paragraphs 5 and 7, this Being who is the Father of our spirits and of Michaelâ??s body is also called by the name Adam. This is nothing unusual because we have already learned from the Robinson quote and we see in paragraph 7 of this Pulsipher quote that the name Adam belongs to the first man of this and every other earth. While Michael may have been the first mortal man on this earth, his Father, the one who gave him his earthly body and who is the Father of our spirits, was actually the [f]irst Man of this earth.

Unfortunately, that is all the time I have for these matters. Nevertheless, this should be sufficient to show that the summary of Brigham Youngâ??s teachings concerning Adam given in the OP is based on a rather shallow reading and understanding of President Youngâ??s discourses. Anyone who is really interested in learning what Brigham Young taught about Michael and who he thought was an Adam might want to start with President Youngâ??s discourse given at the dedication of the Seventies Hall on 26 December 1844 (18 BYU Studies (#2) 177-178 (Winter 1978)). Reading President Youngâ??s discourse in full and in context is the only way to come to understand what he meant to teach. Skimming and regurgitating a long list of cherry-picked â??quotesâ? is not an adequate substitute for actually studying what Brigham Young believed and taught.