Did Moroni Have A Spiritual Body Or A Physical Body?

[Mudcat]

This is a snippet from the testimony of JS, in the intro of the BoM.

But by the wisdom of God, they remained safe in my hands, until I had accomplished by them what was required at my hand. When, according to arrangements, the messenger called for them, I delivered them up to him; and he has them in his charge until this day, being the second day of May, one thousand eight hundred and thirty-eight

The emphasized statement though vague, leaves me with a mental picture of JS handing up the plates to Moroni. In the earlier appearances Moroni doesn't really seem to have any interaction with physical objects... or at least none are described in the introductory part of the BoM. Yet JS seems to be implying that Moroni carried the plates away and has them in his charge.

This may have been discussed on the forum before, if so, sorry for the repeat.

But do LDS believe Moroni has a resurrected physical body and that is why he is able to handle the plates?

Or do LDS believe that spirits that have not been reunited with their physical bodies are cable of physical interaction?

Respectfully,

Mudcat

[ttribe]

This is a snippet from the testimony of JS, in the intro of the BoM.

The emphasized statement though vague, leaves me with a mental picture of JS handing up the plates to Moroni. In the earlier appearances Moroni doesn't really seem to have any interaction with physical objects... or at least none are described in the introductory part of the BoM. Yet JS seems to be implying that Moroni carried the plates away and has them in his charge.

This may have been discussed on the forum before, if so, sorry for the repeat.

But do LDS believe Moroni has a resurrected physical body and that is why he is able to handle the plates?

Or do LDS believe that spirits that have not been reunited with their physical bodies are cable of physical interaction?

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Don't CFR me on it, but it was my understanding (for some reason) that Moroni was a resurrected being.

[Robspectre]

I am the same way. I don't know how I know that he was a resurected being....but I do. I am sure I read it somewhere.

[Sevenbak]

This is a snippet from the testimony of JS, in the intro of the BoM.

The emphasized statement though vague, leaves me with a mental picture of JS handing up the plates to Moroni. In the earlier appearances Moroni doesn't really seem to have any interaction with physical objects... or at least none are described in the introductory part of the BoM. Yet JS seems to be implying that Moroni carried the plates away and has them in his charge.

This may have been discussed on the forum before, if so, sorry for the repeat.

But do LDS believe Moroni has a resurrected physical body and that is why he is able to handle the plates?

Or do LDS believe that spirits that have not been reunited with their physical bodies are cable of physical interaction?

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Moroni was resurrected. From the Gospel Fundamentals manual:

Chapter 10:

Gospel Fundamentals

Some of the most important prophets in this book are Nephi, Jacob, Benjamin, Alma, Mormon, and Moroni. Finally, in 1820, our Father in Heaven chose Joseph Smith to be His prophet and sent Moroni, a resurrected being, to show Joseph where the history was buried.

Gospel Library > Support Materials > Family

Also, from Mark E. Peterson:

The Angel Moroni Came!

Mark E. Petersen

Two physical beings communed togetherâ??with Moroni, a resurrected person of flesh and bones, emerging from the eternal veil and paying repeated and never-to-be-forgotten visits to this mortal farm boy, Joseph Smith. That angel was Moroni.

Gospel Library > Magazines > Ensign > November 1983

[Sargon]

It is very seldom that the Lord sends disembodied spirits to minister among men. There is every reason to suppose that Moroni was ressurrected for his assignment.

The answer, then, is both.

[Scott Lloyd]

Moroni was resurrected. From the Gospel Fundamentals manual:

Chapter 10:

Gospel Fundamentals

Some of the most important prophets in this book are Nephi, Jacob, Benjamin, Alma, Mormon, and Moroni. Finally, in 1820, our Father in Heaven chose Joseph Smith to be His prophet and sent Moroni, a resurrected being, to show Joseph where the history was buried.

Gospel Library > Support Materials > Family

Also, from Mark E. Peterson:

The Angel Moroni Came!

Mark E. Petersen

Two physical beings communed togetherâ??with Moroni, a resurrected person of flesh and bones, emerging from the eternal veil and paying repeated and never-to-be-forgotten visits to this mortal farm boy, Joseph Smith. That angel was Moroni.

Gospel Library > Magazines > Ensign > November 1983

This has always been my understanding. But I admit, I am at a loss as to say when he would have been resurrected, as it has also been my understanding that people who lived and died after Christ's mortal ministry dwell in the spirit world to await resurrection attendant to his Second Coming.

[Mudcat]

Don't CFR me on it, but it was my understanding (for some reason) that Moroni was a resurrected being.

That's what I call a confident answer.

[Mudcat]

Moroni was resurrected. From the Gospel Fundamentals manual:

Chapter 10:

Gospel Fundamentals

Some of the most important prophets in this book are Nephi, Jacob, Benjamin, Alma, Mormon, and Moroni. Finally, in 1820, our Father in Heaven chose Joseph Smith to be His prophet and sent Moroni, a resurrected being, to show Joseph where the history was buried.

Gospel Library > Support Materials > Family

Also, from Mark E. Peterson:

The Angel Moroni Came!

Mark E. Petersen

Two physical beings communed togetherâ??with Moroni, a resurrected person of flesh and bones, emerging from the eternal veil and paying repeated and never-to-be-forgotten visits to this mortal farm boy, Joseph Smith. That angel was Moroni.

Gospel Library > Magazines > Ensign > November 1983

Thanks 7bak.

I suppose I find the concept of his resurrection interesting. Apostle Petersen seems to confirm that he had a physical body. I am now wondering what/if any documentation discusses his resurrection?

Again thanks.

Mudcat

[jkfrost]

It is very seldom that the Lord sends disembodied spirits to minister among men. There is every reason to suppose that Moroni was ressurrected for his assignment.

The answer, then, is both.

Would that include the three who visited Adam, Enoch and Abraham?

What state were these in?

remember the three with Abraham ate with him.

I might have more questions when you are done answering this.

[urroner]

Would that include the three who visited Adam, Enoch and Abraham?

What state were these in?

remember the three with Abraham ate with him.

I might have more questions when you are done answering this.

Angels can simply just be a messenger from God and this can include mortal men, so one or more of the angels meeting with Abraham could have been mortals.

[jkfrost]

Angels can simply just be a messenger from God and this can include mortal men, so one or more of the angels meeting with Abraham could have been mortals.

May I be specific?

why was Moses and Elijah translated?

what was their mission on the mount of transfiguration?

what did Joseph say on this subject?

does this same principle apply to those three who visited Adam in the garden?

[smac97]

I think the general consensus is that Moroni was a resurrected, rather than a translated, being.

Joseph Smith taught as much. Joseph Smith, jr., ed., The Elders Journal (Far West, Missouri: 1838) I, 3 (July, 1838):42-3 (available online here) (emphasis added):

In obedience to our promise, we give the following answers to questions, which were asked in the last number of the Journal.

...

Question 4th. How, and where did you obtain the book of Mormon?

Answer. Moroni, the person who deposited the plates, from whence the book of Mormon was translated, in a hill in Manchester, Ontario County, New York, being dead, and raised again therefrom, appeared unto me, and told me where they were; and gave me directions how to obtain them. I obtained them and the Urim and Thummim with them; by the means of which I translated the plates and thus came the book of Mormon.

I suppose it's possible that Joseph was wrong, that the Moroni had been translated instead.

But I doubt it.

-Smac

[Jason]

We should probably clarify that Jesus Christ was the first resurrected being. Before his resurrection angels had to be either mortal men, translated beings (such as Moses or Enoch), or unembodied spirits (Gabriel).

After Christ's resurrection others could also be resurrected and we know some were before the Second Coming, among them John the Baptist, Peter, and James.

[ttribe]

That's what I call a confident answer.

Well...you didn't specify the quality of answer you wanted.

[StBalthasar]

We should probably clarify that Jesus Christ was the first resurrected being. Before his resurrection angels had to be either mortal men, translated beings (such as Moses or Enoch), or unembodied spirits (Gabriel).

After Christ's resurrection others could also be resurrected and we know some were before the Second Coming, among them John the Baptist, Peter, and James.

In the Priesthood Restoration video presentation produced by the Church it states that Peter, James and John are "resurrected" beings. I believe this is in error, as we believe that John is translated (although, I suppose, enduring until the Savior comes again does not necessarily preclude resurrection).

As for the documentation requested concerning when Moroni was resurrected (thank goodness nobody asked HOW he was resurrected!) I don't think we have much concerning that; God doesn't reveal the exact time or date of every ordinance for human review, the temple recorders on this side of the veil notwithstanding.

[jkfrost]

In the Priesthood Restoration video presentation produced by the Church it states that Peter, James and John are "resurrected" beings. I believe this is in error, as we believe that John is translated (although, I suppose, enduring until the Savior comes again does not necessarily preclude resurrection).

As for the documentation requested concerning when Moroni was resurrected (thank goodness nobody asked HOW he was resurrected!) I don't think we have much concerning that; God doesn't reveal the exact time or date of every ordinance for human review, the temple recorders on this side of the veil notwithstanding.

headless?

[jadams_4242]

This is a snippet from the testimony of JS, in the intro of the BoM.

The emphasized statement though vague, leaves me with a mental picture of JS handing up the plates to Moroni. In the earlier appearances Moroni doesn't really seem to have any interaction with physical objects... or at least none are described in the introductory part of the BoM. Yet JS seems to be implying that Moroni carried the plates away and has them in his charge.

This may have been discussed on the forum before, if so, sorry for the repeat.

But do LDS believe Moroni has a resurrected physical body and that is why he is able to handle the plates?

Or do LDS believe that spirits that have not been reunited with their physical bodies are cable of physical interaction?

Respectfully,

Mudcat

I have always been of the understanding that the plates were "re" buried, not handed from person to person.

[aletheia]

May I be specific?

what was their mission on the mount of transfiguration?

I suppose Moses and Elijah had certain "keys" to give to Peter, James, and John, hence, their 'mission'.

[aletheia]

May I be specific?

why was Moses and Elijah translated?

what was their mission on the mount of transfiguration?

what did Joseph say on this subject?

does this same principle apply to those three who visited Adam in the garden?

whoops, I just re-read your conversation and misunderstood your questioning with my reply. You were leading them into your last last question I assume?

[jkfrost]

I suppose Moses and Elijah had certain "keys" to give to Peter, James, and John, hence, their 'mission'.

whoops, I just re-read your conversation and misunderstood your questioning with my reply. You were leading them into your last last question I assume?

both yes - I have heard that they were translated in order to give the keys however what of Adam and the three with him???

"The Priesthood is everlasting. The Savior, Moses, and Elias,

gave the keys to Peter, James and John, on the mount,

when there were transfigured before him." Teachings JS

does this same principle apply to those three who visited Adam in the garden?

The same might apply to Moroni and Peter James and John to Joseph Smith however there is a paradox above.

Who were the three that gave Adam the keys and did they need a body of sorts to give these keys like unto Moses on the mount?

[Mudcat]

I have always been of the understanding that the plates were "re" buried, not handed from person to person.

That sounds contradictory to Moroni having them in his charge to this day, don't you think?

[Mudcat]

I think the general consensus is that Moroni was a resurrected, rather than a translated, being.

Joseph Smith taught as much. Joseph Smith, jr., ed., The Elders Journal (Far West, Missouri: 1838) I, 3 (July, 1838):42-3 (available online here) (emphasis added):

I suppose it's possible that Joseph was wrong, that the Moroni had been translated instead.

But I doubt it.

-Smac

Thanks for the link Smac.

I suppose the most logical conclusion would be that maybe this was something Moroni told JS at some point and time.

Still really doesn't reconcile this notion of a resurrection into a perfected body prior to Christ's return that I have.

Mudcat

[alter idem]

This has always been my understanding. But I admit, I am at a loss as to say when he would have been resurrected, as it has also been my understanding that people who lived and died after Christ's mortal ministry dwell in the spirit world to await resurrection attendant to his Second Coming.

I don't think this is true--since we teach that Peter and James are resurrected. Therefore, they would have had to have been resurrected sometime after their deaths a number of years after Jesus' death and resurrection. I find it interesting that we teach that Moroni was resurrected. I've often wondered if he could have been translated. I wonder what the reference is that prompted some apostles to say he was resurrected.Anyway, my assumption is that a messenger who needs a physical body to perform their mission--such as ordaining a person or handing over plates would need to be in either a translated or resurrected form.

I have always been of the understanding that the plates were "re" buried, not handed from person to person.

Are you suggesting that Joseph took them out and reburied them?I have always been under the impression that Moroni came and took them after Joseph finished the translation.

[cjcampbell]

This has always been my understanding. But I admit, I am at a loss as to say when he would have been resurrected, as it has also been my understanding that people who lived and died after Christ's mortal ministry dwell in the spirit world to await resurrection attendant to his Second Coming.

People have to go to considerable contortions and wresting of the scriptures to come to this conclusion. They also have to rationalize frequent encounters that prophets and others have with resurrected beings. There is no reason to suppose that no one has been resurrected since the time of Jesus Christ. Neither do we have to suppose, as some say, that Moroni's body was anything less than perfect.

People who have died cannot be translated. They are dead. Their bodies are dead. They can be resurrected, but not translated. Translation is a temporary state granted to some individuals to prevent physical death until their mission on earth is accomplished. John still has work to do, whatever it is, but he will remain translated until Christ comes again.

[Lightbearer]

This is a snippet from the testimony of JS, in the intro of the BoM.

The emphasized statement though vague, leaves me with a mental picture of JS handing up the plates to Moroni. In the earlier appearances Moroni doesn't really seem to have any interaction with physical objects... or at least none are described in the introductory part of the BoM. Yet JS seems to be implying that Moroni carried the plates away and has them in his charge.

This may have been discussed on the forum before, if so, sorry for the repeat.

But do LDS believe Moroni has a resurrected physical body and that is why he is able to handle the plates?

Or do LDS believe that spirits that have not been reunited with their physical bodies are cable of physical interaction?

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Moroni was a resurrected personage who had a body of flesh and bones just as Jesus had when He showed His body to His apostles. The statement of the three witnesses indictes as much:

"And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true."

It seems to say he was able to lay before them the plates.

The prophet explained in section 129 that there were two types of beings who are in heaven:

(D&C 129:1-9) "There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bonesâ?? For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory. When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you. If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand. If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appearâ?? Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message. If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him. These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God."

From this discription it indicates that angels by definition are resurrected beings (I might add translated beings who had to minister with bodies before Christ's resurrection.)