Is Another Great Apostasy Possible

[Mudcat]

I've been thinking about this concept of a restoration lately.

If we assume that a 'Great Apostasy' occurred and that something happened in the early church where humanity 'broke' things. At least in regards to the Church. Then it would make sense, that a loving God, would do his best to make sure things were 'mended'.

The premise behind the restoration seems to be that man has the power â??free will/agencyâ? to damage the Church to the point that it needs to be mended.

I would like to know what LDS think.

Can their be another â??Great Apostasyâ??

If you think yes or no, then why or why not, respectively?

Respectfully,

Mudcat

[jadams_4242]

I've been thinking about this concept of a restoration lately.

If we assume that a 'Great Apostasy' occurred and that something happened in the early church where humanity 'broke' things. At least in regards to the Church. Then it would make sense, that a loving God, would do his best to make sure things were 'mended'.

The premise behind the restoration seems to be that man has the power â??free will/agencyâ? to damage the Church to the point that it needs to be mended.

I would like to know what LDS think.

Can their be another â??Great Apostasyâ??

If you think yes or no, then why or why not, respectively?

Respectfully,

Mudcat

I think there is a great apostasy right now more than ever; but there is also the "final" dispensation happening right now as well; in other words, there aint gonna be another gathering.

[annewandering]

it is prophesied that there will be a sifting of the wheat and tares.

there are also other prophesies that many will fall away.

there will be no apostasy of the type that lead to centuries of darkness however. for one thing there just isnt that much time for that to happen. this is the last dispensation.

[Mudcat]

I think there is a great apostasy right now more than ever; but there is also the "final" dispensation happening right now as well; in other words, there aint gonna be another gathering.

Hi J,

I am hoping to explore the philosophy of restorationists apart from dispensationalism, if that is possible.

What makes you conclude there is a great apostasy right now, from my understanding, the concept of such an event would be that all have fallen away from the truth.

Do you think that has happened in the CoJCoLDS?

[torquate]

"The standard of truth has been erected. . ."

[Bee Eff]

I've been thinking about this concept of a restoration lately.

If we assume that a 'Great Apostasy' occurred and that something happened in the early church where humanity 'broke' things. At least in regards to the Church. Then it would make sense, that a loving God, would do his best to make sure things were 'mended'.

The premise behind the restoration seems to be that man has the power â??free will/agencyâ? to damage the Church to the point that it needs to be mended.

I would like to know what LDS think.

Can their be another â??Great Apostasyâ??

If you think yes or no, then why or why not, respectively?

Respectfully,

Mudcat

I don't believe a second "great apostacy" could occur.

The great apostacy was due to a few things according to LDS doctrine as I understand it:

1. Death or removal [by God] of the Church hierarchy which holds the keys of the priesthood which are not held by the general Church populace.
   
2. A drifting of doctrine from its original state.
   
3. A loss of faith in the Church.
   
4. Non-divine addition to doctrine.
   

All of these comprise the great apostacy. Two through four could be defining aspects of apostacy, but not of a "great apostacy". Number one is the significant factor. LDS believe that god will never allow number one to occur again.

Numbers two and four are the province of the apostles to stave off.

[Mudcat]

"The standard of truth has been erected. . ."

Hi Torquate,

I had to do some research on your quote. It was a snip, from the Wentworth letter.

I must say, I do like JS closing "Respectfully".

A couple of websites refer to this as the beginning to the Missionaries Creed.

I do not specifically know what the Standard Works says about the durability of the Church.

But I would ask you something. As an LDS, I am sure you are aware of the Scriptures other non-LDS Christians would infer as evidence to the lack of such a "Great Apostasy".

However, LDS must discount those words or at least interpret them differently. I guess what I am getting at, is that if the previous platform can sink, what basis is there to assume that the current platform unsinkable.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

[Anijen]

Hi Torquate,

I had to do some research on your quote. It was a snip, from the Wentworth letter.

I must say, I do like JS closing "Respectfully".

A couple of websites refer to this as the beginning to the Missionaries Creed.

I do not specifically know what the Standard Works says about the durability of the Church.

But I would ask you something. As an LDS, I am sure you are aware of the Scriptures other non-LDS Christians would infer as evidence to the lack of such a "Great Apostasy".

However, LDS must discount those words or at least interpret them differently. I guess what I am getting at, is that if the previous platform can sink, what basis is there to assume that the current platform unsinkable.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Hi Mudcat,

There will be apostasy up to the day of the second coming and perhaps after, I dunno. As far as another great apostasy the Prophecy of Danial and latter day revelation says never to be lost again so I think not.

Your good friend Anijen

[Mudcat]

I don't believe a second "great apostacy" could occur.

The great apostacy was due to a few things according to LDS doctrine as I understand it:

1. Death or removal [by God] of the Church hierarchy which holds the keys of the priesthood which are not held by the general Church populace.
   
2. A drifting of doctrine from its original state.
   
3. A loss of faith in the Church.
   
4. Non-divine addition to doctrine.
   

All of these comprise the great apostacy. Two through four could be defining aspects of apostacy, but not of a "great apostacy". Number one is the significant factor. LDS believe that god will never allow number one to occur again.

Numbers two and four are the province of the apostles to stave off.

Hey Bee Eff,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I suppose, it makes me curious on point #1. I understand that LDS believe that "God allowed" such a thing to happen. But I don't fully understand why LDS don't believe God would allow something of that nature to happen again. There is a conflict in logic, at least as I see it. I don't know if can articulate it, but I will try.

1. God allows or causes the authority of the Church to fail

X years later

2. God does not allow or cause the authority of the Church to fail.

This is brunt of what I am trying to get my head around. Seems 1 sets a precedent of non-intervention then 2 sets an interventionary precedent.

Doesn't quite make sense.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

[BCSpace]

I would like to know what LDS think.

Can their be another â??Great Apostasyâ??

No because of ......

Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.

D&C 13:1

[bluebell]

1. God allows or causes the authority of the Church to fail

X years later

2. God does not allow or cause the authority of the Church to fail.

This is brunt of what I am trying to get my head around. Seems 1 sets a precedent of non-intervention then 2 sets an interventionary precedent.

Doesn't quite make sense.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

I think it actually makes sense.

After all, this is the same God who the bible teaches caused a flood to cover the whole earth and who also promised right after it that He would never to do it again.

Or, for another example, this is the same God who says in the OT that there would be a famine in the land of hearing the word of God to such an extent that people would literally SEEK it out and would not be able to find it.

And He's the same God who promised in the NT that all who sought Him would surely find Him.

It's all about His will and His purposes. The God that will hide from those who seek Him one day, and yet reveal Himself to those who seek Him the next, is a God who could logically allow evil to overcome His church for a time and yet promise, after it is restored, that evil will never overcome it again.

In my opinion, such a thing isn't automatically contradictive.

[Mudcat]

I think it actually makes sense.

After all, this is the same God who the bible teaches caused a flood to cover the whole earth and who also promised right after it that He would never to do it again.

Or, for another example, this is the same God who says in the OT that there would be a famine in the land of hearing the word of God to such an extent that people would literally SEEK it out and would not be able to find it.

And He's the same God who promised in the NT that all who sought Him would surely find Him.

It's all about His will and His purposes. The God that will hide from those who seek Him one day, and yet reveal Himself to those who seek Him the next, is a God who could logically allow evil to overcome His church for a time and yet promise, after it is restored, that evil will never overcome it again.

In my opinion, such a thing isn't automatically contradictive.

Hey Bluebell,

Is there some premise that the CoJCoLDS is the 'rainbow'?

It was also said there would be wars and rumors of wars. Which seems to be something that keeps going like the Energizer Bunny.

There was something about the word of God standing forever, but if you are a believing LDS it has a different meaning.

I am not trying to be contrary. I just don't see the points you have made as conclusive. Is their LDS Scripture that says the path won't be lost again?

I guess I am thinking, that well you have these folks who believe in the "Restored" Church.

Then you have these folks that still believe the Church is what it always has been.

If the Church has been restored, then what is there to prevent it from falling into the same shape it was in before it was restored?

Mudcat

[Mudcat]

No because of ......

Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.

D&C 13:1

Hey BC,

I would submit these...

Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever.

1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth forever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

They are verses that have a similar connotation. Yet LDS seem to look at them differently.

My question to you is on what basis should your quote from the D&C bear any more weight or efficacy, than the two I submitted?

[urroner]

What was the cause of the "Great Apostasy" and what was it? Though it's a little long, here is a nice article about three myths that we LDSers believe about the Apostasy and why we believe them - Introduction: What Went Wrong for the Early Christians?. It's an introduction to the book Early Christians in Disarray: Contemporary LDS Perspectives on the Christian Apostasy by Noel B. Reynolds

One quote from the book:

Despite the persistence of the turn-of-the-century paradigm of Roberts, Talmage, and Smith, recent years have seen the stirring of a more expansive and balanced view of the apostasy among some Latter-day Saint authorities and scholars. Though the familiar light/dark metaphor has not disappeared entirely, there have been some efforts to emphasize the spiritual nature of the apostasy without embedding it in an ahistorical picture of accompanying intellectual and moral decline. The Latter-day Saint apostle M. Russell Ballard, for example, has written that the darkness of the Middle Ages refers to the absence of "the light of the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, including the authority of His holy priesthood," yet he also notes that good Christians lived during this time.80 The apostle Dallin H. Oaks likewise affirmed that during the apostasy "men and women . . . kept the light of faith and learning alive" and that "we honor them as servants of God."81 Indeed, despite his affinity with the work of Roberts, Talmage, and Smith, McConkie too acknowledged that "many good and noble souls lived during the dark ages, . . . and they received guidance from th[e] Spirit."82

While none of these recent entries can fairly be compared with the all-encompassing early historical narratives of apostasy, still they suggest perhaps the first stirrings of a change that may bridge the disjuncture between traditional Latter-day Saint and contemporary scholarly views of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. These and some other recent works are moving away from necessitating and justifying the restoration by depicting the apostasy as an age of complete degradation, moral stupor, and intellectual stagnancy. Instead, the apostasy is depicted simply as an age in which priesthood authority did not exist, a view that may be closer in some ways to the views of apostasy in Mormonism's earliest days. By emphasizing the spiritual nature of the apostasy, Latter-day Saints may be able to acknowledge the historical complexity and richness of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance without challenging the need for God's calling of Joseph Smith to effect a restoration of priesthood authority. In this new picture there is no disjuncture between the accepted historical understanding of the age and Latter-day Saint ideas on apostasy. If justification for such a reevaluation is necessary, historical precedent and inspiration for further research into other vintage views of apostasy can perhaps be found in apostle John Taylor's 1873 statement:

I have a great many misgivings about the intelligence that men boast so much of in this enlightened day. There were men in those dark ages who could commune with God, and who, by the power of faith, could draw aside the curtain of eternity and gaze upon the invisible world[,] . . . have the ministering of angels, and unfold the future destinies of the world. If those were dark ages I pray God to give me a little darkness, and deliver me from the light and intelligence that prevail in our day.83

81. Dallin H. Oaks, "Apostasy and Restoration," Ensign, May 1995, 84â??87.

82. McConkie, New Witness for the Articles of Faith, 477. See also, Compton, "Apostasy," 1:58.

83. Journal of Discourses 16:197; see Compton, "Apostasy," 1:58.

Too many Mormons don't understand the Apostasy because of the myths that have been inherited and taught as truth and too many non-LDS Christians believe that we believe that the Apostasy was all about losing all truth and righteousness within the Church, which is also a myth propagated by those against the Church.

I don't believe that a "Great Apostasy" will happen again because the differences between the civilization of back then and now. Back then, communication between the apostles and the Church was very difficult. If a problem occurred in Spain, it would take forever for Jerusalem to find out about it and by the time a response could come would be years. By the late first century, dire wolves had crept into the Church. Even that early, all sorts of apostate doctrine was being taught in many areas and the apostles were not able to react to them fast enough and eventually the apostles all died and God had stopped replacing them with new apostles.

I realize that man Christians have a problem with this because, in their POV, all those who lived during that time were bound for Hell, but within the Church, this isn't a problem in the long run because of the plan of salvation, that one is not damned to Hell if one dies without accepting Christ in this life.

Today, the problem of the lack of communication is not as large a problem as back in the first century, but the problem can still raise its ugly head. Changes happened in Europe during WWII because of a lack of communication, but when the communication was restored, these problems were fixed.

Another thing, after the restoration, the Church basically stayed in a group for a long time. It really wasn't until the 1950s and 1960s, did the Church start to spread outside of Utah, while after the death of Christ, the apostles sent missionaries to many different parts of the world and the Church was spread out all over the place within a relatively short period of time. I think that this was important because if they had stayed in Jerusalem or that area, when Titus conquered Jerusalem in the 8th decade of the first century, I feel that the Church would have been destroyed.

[urroner]

Hey BC,

I would submit these...

They are verses that have a similar connotation. Yet LDS seem to look at them differently.

My question to you is on what basis should your quote from the D&C bear any more weight or efficacy, than the two I submitted?

The truth that the Earth orbits the Sun endured no matter what was taught by men here on Earth.

[BCSpace]

Hey BC,

I would submit these...

Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever.

1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth forever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

They are verses that have a similar connotation. Yet LDS seem to look at them differently.

My question to you is on what basis should your quote from the D&C bear any more weight or efficacy, than the two I submitted?

The Universal Apostasy did not do anything to the word of God and therefore the scriptures are correct. What the UA did was prevent others from hearing the word of God (or a correct version of it) The notion that there wasn't a falling away is contraBiblical....

1. Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2. That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2Thess 2:1-3

That the apostasy is universal is recognized in scripture......

15. This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

2 Tim 1:15

"Asia" is most of the Church at the time. But this is the real kicker.....

7. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:7

Notice that the saints at some future date would be overcome.

Even the early Christians knew of and spoke of the UA. The Pastor of Hermas spoke of the Church as a tower with each individual being one of the stones comprising it's construction. This tower the angel warned, was almost complete and would be replaced by a new and inferior structure. Pastor of Hermas, Vision 2, 3

Interesting quotes from Baptist founder Roger Williams....

"There is no regularly-constituted church on earth, nor any person authorized to administer any Church ordinance: nor can there be, until new apostles are sent by the great Head of the Church, for whose coming I am seeking." (Picturesque America, or the Land We Live In, ed. William Cullen Bryant, New York: D. Appleton and Co., 1872, vol. 1, p. 502.)

"...the apostasy of Antichrist hath so far corrupted all that there can be no recovery out of that apostasy till Christ shall send forth new apostles to plant churches anew." Struggles and Triumphs of Religious Liberty, - pg. 238-239

[Phinehas]

3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Now when did the "man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition"?

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Who is he and when was he revealed?

For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Seems to me that none of this has YET happened

[BCSpace]

Who is he and when was he revealed?

For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Seems to me that none of this has YET happened

Your good friend Roger Williams seems to think so regarding the apostasy of the "antiChrist". Pretty weak argument not addressing all the references and not positing an opinion of what you think this person is and why you think this hasn't happened yet.

[Phinehas]

Your good friend Roger Williams seems to think so regarding the apostasy of the "antiChrist". Pretty weak argument not addressing all the references and not positing an opinion of what you think this person is and why you think this hasn't happened yet.

How can it be weak when it hasn't happened?

Who is Roger Williams?

I only asked a question. You didn't answer it and yet I am weak?

[BCSpace]

Your good friend Roger Williams seems to think so regarding the apostasy of the "antiChrist". Pretty weak argument not addressing all the references and not positing an opinion of what you think this person is and why you think this hasn't happened yet.

How can it be weak when it hasn't happened?

What makes you think that? This is a claim without reference.

Who is Roger Williams?

One of the founders of the Baptist church.

I only asked a question. You didn't answer it and yet I am weak?

I did answer it (in a round about way, he is the antiChrist) in the very post you are referring to and I said your argument was weak, not you.

[Cold Steel]

The Great Apostasy is still raging today.

But to answer your question, no, not an entire apostasy. Our scriptures speak of the keys of authority (or the Kingdom) being restored for the "last time." Daniel, in his vision of the future, sees that the Lord would set up a kingdom that would "never be destroyed." Many Christians believe this kingdom was set up in the days of Christ, but in Daniel's vision, it would be set up in the days of "the kings" following the Roman Empire. It would be in the days of the toes, part iron, part clay, and it would not be left to "other men," but would be guided by God. It also would roll forth until it filled the entire Earth. (See Daniel 2.)

The gospel would be preached to the world before the second coming of Christ, then the end would come. The Millennium would bring in world peace that would last for almost 1,000 years. At the last part of the Millennium, Satan and his hosts would be released to form a final assault on God and His Hosts, and would suffer everlasting defeat.

Early in church history, the Lord threatened to raise up another people if they failed to live up to His commandments; however, that was not necessary. Still, because of our unwillingness to be faithful to the Lord's will in all things, and because of the gentiles' rejection of the gospel, we were forced into the western regions so that we would escape the great war that was to come in judgment against the gentiles. That war was courtesy of Mr. Lincoln, and it ravaged the very people who had so persecuted the saints.

At least that's our take.

[Noah]

A distinction needs to be made here. There really are two kinds of apostasy. In one case, there is an apostasy of the Church from the gospel (what happened to the early Christian Church). In another, there is an apostasy of the members from the Church.

The former is guaranteed not to occur again, as has been stated above. The latter is almost guaranteed to occur; not only that, but I believe we have already been crippled by a massive, although by-no-means total, apostasy.

I'm a card-carrying Mormon, ethnically, culturally, and religiously speaking. But you might also call me a Smithite, a Brighamite, a Taylorite, and perhaps even a Nibleyite. Brigham certainly warned us about what could happen to us, and Nibley was there to warn us when it had happened.

I'm not one to seek after trials, but I believe persecution is ultimately going to find us. We've had it easy. Sure there are those who use unkind words against us, but such is easy enough to ignore. We've become proud, individualistic, haughty, and deeply assimilated into Babylonian culture. And we're not popular; the world does not like us.

And you say, "Of course they don't, nor do we expect them to." But sometimes, sometimes, people simply don't like you because they think you're an arrogant, holier-than-thou jerk. So ask yourself, why do your enemies dislike you?

It would say it's time to get our heads out of the sand. And for the record, I don't think I'm any better than you; more than anything, more than being righteous, I wish I was more faithful, more repentant--because that's what God really wants. Nevertheless, we're (probably) not going to get our heads out of the sand. The Lord will have to compel us; he will use our enemies to afflict us. It's happening already...and before you know it, it will be happening to us seventy-times-seven, and so forth.

Many of us will fall away, but many of us will grow stronger, more humble. I worry about myself; I worry about the people I go to Church with. We need to remember that Zion belongs to anyone who will bow their heads and submit themselves to God. We have been called to gather Israel, not because we are righteous, as Brigham says, but because we are ambitious, conquerers by nature, saved only by the grace of the gospel and Jesus Christ. That means, more than anything, we need to remember humility. There are ten lost tribes out there; the Church is not the Church of the Ephraimites only.

Not only do I believe an apostasy could occur; I believe we're in the process of one. That said, I also believe in happy endings, and I believe many us will draw nearer to God and each other, through humility, in the face of crushing adversity.

[SilverKnight]

I've been thinking about this concept of a restoration lately.

If we assume that a 'Great Apostasy' occurred and that something happened in the early church where humanity 'broke' things. At least in regards to the Church. Then it would make sense, that a loving God, would do his best to make sure things were 'mended'.

The premise behind the restoration seems to be that man has the power â??free will/agencyâ? to damage the Church to the point that it needs to be mended.

I would like to know what LDS think.

Can their be another â??Great Apostasyâ??

If you think yes or no, then why or why not, respectively?

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Hi Mud,

If we are operating under the assumption that mormonism is indeed the Gospel of Jesus Christ restored then I think no - a large part of LDS scripture assures "this is it". The final dispensation. The true gospel restored - never to be lost again.

Which begs two questions I can think of:

1. Do we have the power, through wickedness or corruption, to splinter the LDS church into apostasy? The succession crisis between the pro and anti poligamy factions was the closest thing to that.

2. If God allowed the original gospel to disintegrate into a 2000 year apostasy, why are we so sure he won't let it happen again? Are the 2008 saints that much more important than the 400 AD saints?

[Bee Eff]

Hey Bee Eff,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I suppose, it makes me curious on point #1. I understand that LDS believe that "God allowed" such a thing to happen. But I don't fully understand why LDS don't believe God would allow something of that nature to happen again. There is a conflict in logic, at least as I see it. I don't know if can articulate it, but I will try.

1. God allows or causes the authority of the Church to fail

X years later

2. God does not allow or cause the authority of the Church to fail.

This is brunt of what I am trying to get my head around. Seems 1 sets a precedent of non-intervention then 2 sets an interventionary precedent.

Doesn't quite make sense.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

I am not sure if it is Church doctrine or not, but many LDS, myself included, believe Christ cam at the meridian of time due to that being the opportune time. By opportune time I reference a time when Christ would be crucified, that the message of the Gospel was such that Christ himself would be offered up as sacrifice and not accepted by the general public. Given this, I do not believe that the Church truly had a chance of success without a great deal of influence from outside stimuli. I believe that the opinions and views held at that time were such that man would not grasp the gospel without the philosophies of the time contaminating them, and not solely the gentile philosophies, but the Jewish religious philosophies as well.

This leads to an assumption on my part that it was not allowed through a decision to allow such, but of a necessity to allow such. For Christ to be sacrificed, the Church needed to be set in a time that its survival was unlikely. If the time was such that the Son of God himself would be killed, why would it be expected that his followers would be capable of surviving that time?

The rationale I believe for the delay of 1800 years until the restoration has a few aspects.

I believe that Most of the religious figures through those 1800 years were inspired of God, and either they did not hold the message clear and contaminated it with their own views or the people of the time contaminated it. Thus, there is not a true 1800 year gap between Christ and God speaking to man.

I believe that timing shows symbolism and parallel. Christ creates at the beginning, Christ at the meridian of time sacrificed, Christ at the end finalizing and bringing to a close. I believe that thus, Joseph Smith and the restoration occurred when it did due to the parallel aspect of the period of the Earth. Possibly paralleling Moses or Jacob's Joseph.

I believe that the timing of Joseph Smith and the restoration is such that a similar contamination is unlikely and possibly beyond probability of occurrence. Christianity and the early contaminants therein had diffused to the point that doubt in the original contaminants is rife, Christians in general cannot agree on the truth. Now, this does throw many Christians under the train as it were. Many cling to incorrect doctrines. This follows the pattern though. Many Jews, the pre-Christian Titled Church at the time of Christ, rejected the Gospel and Christ in favor of their incorrect and contaminated religion. Some will in fact grasp the truth, but many will hold stubbornly to their incorrect beliefs.

Thus, why there will not be another "great apostacy".

[bert10]

Hi. The BOM was to redress the apostasy problem with the gentiles. However, it is their philosophies that are being adopted by the LDS people. So much so that our divorce rates are the same as the LDS [excluding temple marriages].

There is hope.....The Lord will rectify the situation in due time.

D&C 85:7 - And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;

Peace be unto you

bert10

I've been thinking about this concept of a restoration lately.

If we assume that a 'Great Apostasy' occurred and that something happened in the early church where humanity 'broke' things. At least in regards to the Church. Then it would make sense, that a loving God, would do his best to make sure things were 'mended'.

The premise behind the restoration seems to be that man has the power â??free will/agencyâ? to damage the Church to the point that it needs to be mended.

I would like to know what LDS think.

Can their be another â??Great Apostasyâ??

If you think yes or no, then why or why not, respectively?

Respectfully,

Mudcat