Are Mormons Christians?

[ttribe]

It seems I most often hear that in order to be Christian, I must have a personal relationship with Christ. Well, I have that, and I believe that His Atonement is the only means by which I can enter God's Kingdom. As a consequence, I believe I am a Christian. What matters is that I have that relationship and it is beyond presumptuous for any human being to say that I am not a Christian based on his or her interpretation of scripture coupled with the fact that I am a member of a church which espouses doctrines they find objectionable - they simply have no such right. I am a Christian, and aside from Christ Himself, I am the only person who gets to make that determination.

[MatthewG]

Most EVs don't say you're a satanic cult.

True, MOST don't use the word Satanic, they just use the word Cult. Which brings images of David Koresh etc to the ignorant mind. WE are not a cult. And any definition of cult you can throw out there, can be flipped back on you.

[ttribe]

True, MOST don't use the word Satanic, they just use the word Cult. Which brings images of David Koresh etc to the ignorant mind. WE are not a cult. And any definition of cult you can throw out there, can be flipped back on you.

More specifically, "cult" is frequently used in a pejorative sense and it is insulting.

[MatthewG]

More specifically, "cult" is frequently used in a pejorative sense and it is insulting.

Then we get people like James Banta who get upset when we call them Anti, but they have no issues calling us "cult".

[coolrok7]

It seems I most often hear that in order to be Christian, I must have a personal relationship with Christ. Well, I have that, and I believe that His Atonement is the only means by which I can enter God's Kingdom. As a consequence, I believe I am a Christian. What matters is that I have that relationship and it is beyond presumptuous for any human being to say that I am not a Christian based on his or her interpretation of scripture coupled with the fact that I am a member of a church which espouses doctrines they find objectionable - they simply have no such right. I am a Christian, and aside from Christ Himself, I am the only person who gets to make that determination.

Having a "personal relationship" is not a Biblical phrase of course but I think can be justifiably derived from Scripture, "in other words". Bruce R. McConkie, a past Mormon apostle, did't agree and opposed the use of the term. A verse where this relationship I believe exists is the following:

I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. (Galatians 2:20)

The issue here is not peopleâ??s opinions but what is the true Biblical (first century) doctrines one is to believe and accept as coming from God in order to have salvation? (i.e. escape from eternal punishment/outer darkness in which Jesus identifies as hell). Mormonis disagrees with the Biblical testimony of/about Jesus:

If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.(1 John 5:13)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. . . .I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. (Revelation 1:1-2; 9-11)

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)

â??For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.â?? (Matthew 25: 29-30)

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, â??Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.â?? â??Then they also will answer Him, saying, â??Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?â?? Then He will answer them, saying, â??Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.â?? And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.â? (Matthew 25:41-46)

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15)

Bruce R. McConkie as a Mormon "apostle" didn't like or agree to the usage of the term:

To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, â??These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: â??I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My nameâ??s sake and have not become weary. (Revelation 2:1-3)

You have the right to believe as you see fit but also the responsibility to believe the "truth". I have always stated that Mormons can be Christian in some of what they believe. The specifics of what makes "Mormonisn" "Mormon" through Joseph Smith is what I would say is not "Christian". To each is the choice of whom/what to believe.

I do not say these things lightly and without understanding the impications of my choice that I've made so far. I'm all eyes and ears and have been for most of my life. I believe in the Jesus of Biblical revelation, not the Jesus of Joseph Smith and his sucessors and in Mormon so-called "Scripture". Joseph Smith I believe meets the definition of a "false prophet/teacher" and bears the same responsibility to speak the truth as well. I believe he didn't always speak the truth. I have no objection to the truth he spoke. Only that which is false and not Biblical. From a Mormon proselytizing pamphlet:

A falling away from the true religion that Christ preached, from the ordinances he performed, and from the church he organized was foretold in the Bible. Confirming this loss of truth are many of historyâ??s great Christian reformers. Many of them sought to conform with the Holy Scriptures; some looked for the restoration â??of all thingsâ? that Peter had prophesied. The Latter-day Saints not only recognize that this falling away did occur, but also announce that God has made himself known to mortal men in these modern times and has restored his church in detail as it was anciently. . . .Christianity Has Ceased to Exist- I have sought nothing beyond reforming the Church in conformity with the Holy Scriptures. . . .I simply say that Christianity has ceased to exist among those who should have preserved it. . . .MARTIN LUTHER. . .The Gospel of Jesus Christ Restored Through a Modern Prophetâ??Joseph Smith (The Falling Away And Restoration Foretold pamphlet, pp.1, 4, 5, 14, 15)

As in the days of Luther (who was speaking of the pope) it wasnâ??t a restoration that was needed. It was that the people of that time period (ours as well) needed to listen to the counsel of Scripture (which was Lutherâ??s main point) and the Holy Spirit in discerning the will of God for them and then to live their lives accordingly.

The following is what Luther (I'm a Christian, Protestant, of the Lutheran, Missouri Synod tribe) had to say concerning his own writings in comparison to Scripture (as contrasted with Joseph/Brigham Youngâ??s view of Josephâ??s calling; also The Watchtowerâ??s view of Charles Taze Russell):

I would gladly have seen all my books forgotten and destroyed; if only for the reason that I am afraid of the example. For I see what benefit it has brought to the churches, that men have begun to collect many books and great libraries, outside and alongside of the Holy Scriptures; . . .Not only has good time been wasted, and the study of Scripture neglected; but the pure understanding of the divine Word is lost, . . .Then, too, it was our intention and our hope, when we began to put the Bible into German, that there would be less writing, and more studying and reading of the Scriptures. For all other writing should point to the Scriptures, as John pointed to Christ, when he said, â??He must increase, but I must decrease.â? . . .I only ask in all kindness, that the man who wishes at this time to have my books will by no means let them be a hindrance to his own study of the Scriptures, . . . (Lutherâ??s preface to the first part of his German Works, 1539 edition, pp.7-9)

God made Aaron to be mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in his stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you donâ??t like it, you must lump it. (History of the Church, Joseph Smith, Vol. 6:319-20)

Every intelligent person under the heavens that does not, when informed, acknowledge that Joseph Smith Jr. is a Prophet of God, is in darkness, and is opposed to us and to Jesus and his kingdom on the earth. (Journal of Discourses, 8:223, Brigham Young)

God gave Brother Russell to the church to be as a mouthpiece for him; and those who claim to have learned the truth apart from Brother Russell and his writings have been manifested by the Lord as deceivers, ready to lead the flock of God in their way. Since Brother Russellâ??s death the evidence of Godâ??s favor upon the Society, which was organized by Brother Russell for the furtherance of the Lordâ??s work, has been manifested as clearly as it was previously upon him. . . . (The Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1922, p.279)

Joseph Smith is not the only false teacher I would disagree with.

In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, Paul is specifically addressing the event commonly known as the â??Second Coming.â? Before/as Jesus returns at least two specific things will take place, the falling away first, and then the â??man of sinâ? is to be revealed at the coming of Jesus:

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12)

Paulâ??s discussion of the apostasy in this context was for people to be warned about not being deceived and to provide encouragement in living life day to day. In his previous letter (1 Thessalonians), the expected imminent return of Christ was causing some to become busybodies and neglecting their daily responsibilities living as Christians.

While we can debate what the correct interpretation is as to a given subject, the final word is what â??Scriptureâ? (only the Bible) actually teaches in its totality and in context!

[ttribe]

Having a "personal relationship" is not a Biblical phrase of course but I think can be justifiably derived from Scripture, "in other words". Bruce R. McConkie, a past Mormon apostle, did't agree and opposed the use of the term. A verse where this relationship I believe exists is the following:

The issue here is not peopleâ??s opinions but what is the true Biblical (first century) doctrines one is to believe and accept as coming from God in order to have salvation? (i.e. escape from eternal punishment/outer darkness in which Jesus identifies as hell). Mormonis disagrees with the Biblical testimony of/about Jesus:

Bruce R. McConkie as a Mormon "apostle" didn't like or agree to the usage of the term:

You have the right to believe as you see fit but also the responsibility to believe the "truth". I have always stated that Mormons can be Christian in some of what they believe. The specifics of what makes "Mormonisn" "Mormon" through Joseph Smith is what I would say is not "Christian". To each is the choice of whom/what to believe.

I do not say these things lightly and without understanding the impications of my choice that I've made so far. I'm all eyes and ears and have been for most of my life. I believe in the Jesus of Biblical revelation, not the Jesus of Joseph Smith and his sucessors and in Mormon so-called "Scripture". Joseph Smith I believe meets the definition of a "false prophet/teacher" and bears the same responsibility to speak the truth as well. I believe he didn't always speak the truth. I have no objection to the truth he spoke. Only that which is false and not Biblical. From a Mormon proselytizing pamphlet:

As in the days of Luther (who was speaking of the pope) it wasnâ??t a restoration that was needed. It was that the people of that time period (ours as well) needed to listen to the counsel of Scripture (which was Lutherâ??s main point) and the Holy Spirit in discerning the will of God for them and then to live their lives accordingly.

The following is what Luther (I'm a Christian, Protestant, of the Lutheran, Missouri Synod tribe) had to say concerning his own writings in comparison to Scripture (as contrasted with Joseph/Brigham Youngâ??s view of Josephâ??s calling; also The Watchtowerâ??s view of Charles Taze Russell):

Joseph Smith is not the only false teacher I would disagree with.

In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, Paul is specifically addressing the event commonly known as the â??Second Coming.â? Before/as Jesus returns at least two specific things will take place, the falling away first, and then the â??man of sinâ? is to be revealed at the coming of Jesus:

Paulâ??s discussion of the apostasy in this context was for people to be warned about not being deceived and to provide encouragement in living life day to day. In his previous letter (1 Thessalonians), the expected imminent return of Christ was causing some to become busybodies and neglecting their daily responsibilities living as Christians.

While we can debate what the correct interpretation is as to a given subject, the final word is what â??Scriptureâ? (only the Bible) actually teaches in its totality and in context!

So, if I read all of this correctly, you went through all of this to tell me that you are more qualified to determine whether I am a Christian than I am. Again, presumptuous.

[Flyonthewall]

If you interpret the Bible as I do, the I'll let you in my club.

[wenglund]

Since this topic has been beat to death, I thought I would give it a bit of a twist by asking: "Is Christian Slater Christian?"

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[SilverKnight]

Since this topic has been beat to death, I thought I would give it a bit of a twist by asking: "Is Christian Slater Christian?"

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

A Christian?

[wenglund]

A Christian?

Given his first name, it presents a bit of a connundrum, doesn't it?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[ttribe]

If you interpret the Bible as I do, the I'll let you in my club.

Hit the nail on the head.

Since this topic has been beat to death, I thought I would give it a bit of a twist by asking: "Is Christian Slater Christian?" Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Akboy]

When Abraham was visited by angels and told he would have a child and be the father of many nations, was he counted as a righteous man in the sight of the Lord("Christian", since the OT points to Christ)? How about when he was taking Isaac up to sacrafice him? How about when he tied Isaac to the altar? How about when he raised the knife to sacrafice him? What do you think his family and freind would have thought about him had they known? They most likely would have thought him mad, and had fallen out of favor with the Lord. I only bring this up because you brought up human sacrifice.

Yet I wasn't talking about human sacrifice. I was talking about a religion that believes it's worshiping God, but is drifting farther and farther from what God taught. How could someone worship God if they contradict what He taught?

I know we've been down this road before, and I still thing this is a very narrow minded view of things(note, not calling you narrow minded). Let me ask you this - Does God hold someone who has never heard of Jesus, to the same standard as you? How about someone who wants to follow Jesus, but has not been taught properly? Will they be judged using the same criteria as you?

This isn't about what standard God holds us to, it's just about worship. Can you worship God if you don't follow His teachings.

[Aquilifer]

Can you worship God if you don't follow His teachings.

A good question. But to use that standard as a litmus test in deciding who is Christian and who is not, you would have to determine objectively and precisely what His teachings are.

Two millennia of ethical debate, scholarship, theology and philosophy among Christians haven't been able to accomplish that fully, therefore I object to you using such a test to judge my understanding of His teachings.

[Tanyan]

So, if I read all of this correctly, you went through all of this to tell me that you are more qualified to determine whether I am a Christian than I am. Again, presumptuous.

You should have seen coolrok7 in action at the LDS/EV Dialogue at Mariners Church last Sunday .

In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

[Flyonthewall]

Yet I wasn't talking about human sacrifice. I was talking about a religion that believes it's worshiping God, but is drifting farther and farther from what God taught. How could someone worship God if they contradict what He taught?

This isn't about what standard God holds us to, it's just about worship. Can you worship God if you don't follow His teachings.

Then we go back to the problem of who's interpretation will we use to define what His teachings are.

So I will go out on a limb and say the answer is YES, you can worship God if you don't follow His teachings(the way I think you should). But this is not black and white as you want to make it. I consider myself worshipping God if I follow my own interpretation of His teachings, even if you don't agree with it. And the reverse is true, I consider you worshipping God if you are following your own interpretation of His teachings, even if I don't agree with it. As long as you have a sincere heart in following what you know, then I count that as worshiping God, and I am sure that God will count that too.

[johnny]

Rommelator

Man, johnny, you really dropped the ball with this one.

Bumped so that Rommelator can pick up the ball ...

Like Mormons. â?¦ Or Godhead, take your pick. â?¦Like Mormons believe â?¦ Hm.... just like Mormons do.

Mormons believe Jesus is the son of heavenly mother and the Son of God.

Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God.

Mormons believe in a Godhead that contains three Gods.

Christians believe in a Godhead that contains one God.

Mormons believe Christ did â??his partâ? to atone for our sins.

Christians believe Christ died for our sins.

Mormons hope in eternal life through eternal marriage.

Christians hope in eternal life through faith in His life, death and resurrection.

Hey! I have seen that happen to in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well! Cool!

Mormons baptize in the name F,S,HG but the words F,S,HG have for the Mormons a meaning totally different from the Christian meaning.

Mormons preach a different Jesus. The Jesus of Mormonism was born of heavenly parents, has a Father that has a body of flesh, and has a brother name Satan.

Yeah, just like the early Israelites and Christians. â?¦ What a sad proof text. First, a better translation of the Shema, as provided by M. Smith, states: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, our God alone". Smith then shows evidence that this verse is not excluding the existence of other gods per se, but rather is establishing YWHW's eminence in the Divine Council.

With the words "Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord" Jesus taught that there is one God; and there is none other but he. Jesus did not teach â??three Godsâ? like Joseph Smith. The early Christians did not believe in â??three Godsâ? like Joseph Smith taught. The early Christian bishop who was ordained by the apostle Peter taught â??one Godâ?.

Christians are disciples of Christ, the disciples of Christ continue in his word, Christians continue in "there is one God".

This is begging the question. Mormons are Christians and they accept the Book of Mormon.

Mormons are Mormons they believe the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon reveals a different gospel, the BoM reveals we are saved â??after all we can doâ?. The Bible reveals â??by grace are ye saved through faith â?¦ Not of worksâ?.

Such as?

There are other differences between Mormons and Christians such as Mormons believe that the Lord told Joseph Smith that â??all their creeds were an abomination in his sightâ?.

[Glenn101]

Rommelator

Bumped so that Rommelator can pick up the ball ...

Mormons believe Jesus is the son of heavenly mother and the Son of God.

Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God.

Absolutely wrong. The Bible teaches that Christ is the only Begotten Son of our Heavenly Father and an earthly, mortal parent, Mary. That is what the LDS Church teaches. That Jesus is the Son of God.

Mormons believe in a Godhead that contains three Gods.

Christians believe in a Godhead that contains one God.

The Bible teaches us that the three are separate beings in so many places. The LDS believe and teach what the Bible teaches.

Look at Acts 7: 55

55 But he, (Sthephen) being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Mormons believe Christ did â??his partâ? to atone for our sins.

Christians believe Christ died for our sins.

Again, completely wrong. The LDS Church teaches that Jesus Christ was the only one who could save us, the only one who could atone for our sins. No man or woman could or can do anything to atone for his/her own sins. We believe that Christ atoned for our sins completely.

Mormons hope in eternal life through eternal marriage.

The LDS have hope of eternal increase through eternal marriage, not eternal life.

Christians hope in eternal life through faith in His life, death and resurrection.

Without that there would be no hope. That is what the Bible and the LDS Church teaches.

Mormons baptize in the name F,S,HG but the words F,S,HG have for the Mormons a meaning totally different from the Christian meaning.

Don't know what you mean there. Those holding the proper priesthood in the LDS Church can baptize in the name of the Father (Heavenly Father, Father of Jesus), the Son (Jesus Christ, Immanuel or God With Us), and the Holy Ghost.

Mormons preach a different Jesus. The Jesus of Mormonism was born of heavenly parents, has a Father that has a body of flesh, and has a brother name Satan.

With the words "Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord" Jesus taught that there is one God; and there is none other but he. Jesus did not teach â??three Godsâ? like Joseph Smith. The early Christians did not believe in â??three Godsâ? like Joseph Smith taught. The early Christian bishop who was ordained by the apostle Peter taught â??one Godâ?.

Jesus taught that He had a Father in Heaven whose will He (Jesus) was sent to do. He taught that everything that He was doing was only things that He had seen his Father do. Was Jesus not God. Did not John say that in the begiining was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God?

Christians are disciples of Christ, the disciples of Christ continue in his word, Christians continue in "there is one God".

Mormons are Mormons they believe the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon reveals a different gospel, the BoM reveals we are saved â??after all we can doâ?. The Bible reveals â??by grace are ye saved through faith â?¦ Not of worksâ?.

The members of the LDS Church are disciples of Christ. The Book of Mormon reveals the Gospel of the Bible. The bible reveals that it is by grace alone that the atonement happened. But the LDS also realize that the Bible reveals that we must "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling". (The same Paul that said by grace alone says this in Philipians 2:12) This very same sentiment was echoed by the prophet Mormon (Mormon 9;27)

There are other differences between Mormons and Christians such as Mormons believe that the Lord told Joseph Smith that â??all their creeds were an abomination in his sightâ?.

You may believe or not believe what the Lord told Joseph Smith. But that is irrelevant as to whether the LDS are Christians. God is the judge and will be the one who decides who are/were the real Christians.

Glenn

[johnny]

glennthigpen

Absolutely wrong. The Bible teaches that Christ is the only Begotten Son of our Heavenly Father and an earthly, mortal parent, Mary. That is what the LDS Church teaches. That Jesus is the Son of God.

It seems you are not aware of what the Mormon Church teaches, it teaches

• Mormon Gospel Principles Chapter 2 "All men and women are . . . literally the sons and daughters of Deity. ... The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus Christ ... "
  

The Bible teaches us that the three are separate beings in so many places. The LDS believe and teach what the Bible teaches.

Look at Acts 7: 55

55 But he, (Sthephen) being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Mormons do not believe and teach what the Bible teaches. Joseph Smith taught "three Gods", see below

• Joseph Smith Teachings â??I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Godsâ?
  

Again, completely wrong. The LDS Church teaches that Jesus Christ was the only one who could save us, the only one who could atone for our sins. No man or woman could or can do anything to atone for his/her own sins. We believe that Christ atoned for our sins completely.

Again you differ with what the Mormon Church teaches, it teaches

• Mormon Gospel Principles Chapter 12 "Christ did his part to atone for our sins. To make his atonement fully effective ... we will keep his terms, which are to repent and keep his commandments ...we may return to live with our Heavenly Father."
  

The LDS have hope of eternal increase through eternal marriage, not eternal life.

Again you differ with what the Mormon Church teaches, it teaches

• Mormon Gospel Principles Chapter 38 "Eternal Marriage Is Essential for Exaltation"
  
• -
  
• Mormon Gospel Principles Chapter 47 "Exaltation is eternal life ..."
  

Without that there would be no hope. That is what the Bible and the LDS Church teaches.

The Bible does not teach what the Mormon Church teaches about eternal life.

Don't know what you mean there. Those holding the proper priesthood in the LDS Church can baptize in the name of the Father (Heavenly Father, Father of Jesus), the Son (Jesus Christ, Immanuel or God With Us), and the Holy Ghost.

I mean that the Jesus taught by the Mormon Church is so different than the Jesus revealed in the Bible that a Mormon Baptism is not considered valid by the Catholic Church. The Jesus of Mormonism was born of heavenly parents, has a Father that has a body of flesh, and has a brother name Satan

Jesus taught that He had a Father in Heaven whose will He (Jesus) was sent to do. He taught that everything that He was doing was only things that He had seen his Father do. Was Jesus not God. Did not John say that in the begiining was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God?

The Jesus of Mormonism "is also a God", the Jesus of Mormonism is not "God". The Mormon Church teaches that Elohim and Jehovah are two separate Gods, see below:

• Mormon Bible Dictionary - God "When one speaks of God, it is generally the Father who is referred to; that is, Elohim. All mankind are his children. The personage known as Jehovah in Old Testament times, and who is usually identified in the Old Testament as LORD (in capital letters), is the Son, known as Jesus Christ, and who is also a God."
  

The members of the LDS Church are disciples of Christ. The Book of Mormon reveals the Gospel of the Bible. The bible reveals that it is by grace alone that the atonement happened. But the LDS also realize that the Bible reveals that we must "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling". (The same Paul that said by grace alone says this in Philipians 2:12) This very same sentiment was echoed by the prophet Mormon (Mormon 9;27)

"It is God which worketh in you" (Phil 2:13) to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling", this is different that the words found in the Book of Mormon which reveal â??after all we can doâ?.

You may believe or not believe what the Lord told Joseph Smith. But that is irrelevant as to whether the LDS are Christians. God is the judge and will be the one who decides who are/were the real Christians.

I do not believe what the Lord told Joseph Smith because the Christian Creeds are consistent with the Christian scriptures. Christians are disciples of Christ, the disciples of Christ continue in his word, Christians continue in "there is one God". Mormons continue in the words of Joseph Smith, who taught "three Gods.

[LDSMusic483]

For anyone who cares, it's no use trying to discuss with Johnny. You could show him the sky was blue and he would still swear it was green. He is to set in his ways to even bother discussing the scriptures with, and I see no point to his being on this board as he is never willing to even consider the others position before he moves on to his first century bishop taught this and that. Definitely think that 2 Pet 3:16 applies to him.

[coolrok7]

You should have seen coolrok7 in action at the LDS/EV Dialogue at Mariners Church last Sunday .

In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

By that do you mean that I came over to you to say hi after I noticed you there standing up front near the podium? I had asked you (jokingly) where the suit and tie was (or at least shirt and tie) as it what was most Mormon males in attendance were wearing. You did point out that you had a shirt with a picture of Jesus on your back in which you turned around to show me. I never have seen a Mormon do that until you (you claim to be Mormon, but you sound somewhat more Evangelical in the way you discuss things) .

The reason why I said that was because in the previous meetings I noticed that the way you were talking was more like EV's do, not the way Mormons usually talk in having discussions with Ev's. As an side I was saying that to illustrate that why not identify with the way Mormon culture minimally represents itself in its public image as it usually does in southern California.

[MatthewG]

If you interpret the Bible as I do, the I'll let you in my club.

I know it's so lame. Especially since God didn't give them the authority to define who is and who isn't "Christian".

[Hoops22]

I know it's so lame. Especially since God didn't give them the authority to define who is and who isn't "Christian".

I thought you believed in revelation.

[MatthewG]

I thought you believed in revelation.

As far as I know, God hasn't said you aren't Christian, he has said you aren't his Church. Major difference.

[Hoops22]

As far as I know, God hasn't said you aren't Christian, he has said you aren't his Church. Major difference.

Difference without a distinction - or however that saying goes.

but I was referring to this:

Especially since God didn't give them the authority to define who is and who isn't "Christian".

By this I'm assuming those who say that lds church is not christian based on their (the "them" in your quote) interpretation of the bible.

Am I wrong?

[Hannah Rebekah]

Mormons preach a different Jesus. The Jesus of Mormonism was born of heavenly parents, has a Father that has a body of flesh, and has a brother name Satan.

Johnny,

I would much rather believe in Christ as the Spiritual brother of Satan than what you teach; that Satan and Christ are one and the same:

In Isaiah 14:12 the NIV calls Satan the Morning Star, then turn to Revelation 22:16 you find that the Morning Star is Jesus in the same Bible!